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Ongoing religious scandals

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Behind a disguised offshore company structure, the church's international portfolio has been built up over the years, using cash originally handed over by Mussolini in return for papal recognition of the Italian fascist regime in 1929.

    Since then the international value of Mussolini's nest-egg has mounted until it now exceeds £500m. In 2006, at the height of the recent property bubble, the Vatican spent £15m of those funds to buy 30 St James's Square. Other UK properties are at 168 New Bond Street and in the city of Coventry. It also owns blocks of flats in Paris and Switzerland.

    The surprising aspect for some will be the lengths to which the Vatican has gone to preserve secrecy about the Mussolini millions. The St James's Square office block was bought by a company called British Grolux Investments Ltd, which also holds the other UK properties. Published registers at Companies House do not disclose the company's true ownership, nor make any mention of the Vatican.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/21/vatican-secret-property-empire-mussolini

    I am not even slightly surprised at the lengths to which the Vatican has gone to preserve secrecy about the Mussolini millions no more than I am surprised that they allowed themselves to be bought off by him in the first place. It's not like Fascist ideology is a million miles from the RCC's...


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    More on that sex-in-the-rectory, come-to-my-adult-video-shop, Monsignor Meth:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/21/nyregion/drug-arrest-adds-name-to-a-connecticut-congregations-prayer-list-its-ex-pastor.html
    BRIDGEPORT, Conn. — He had an endearing habit, parishioners recalled, of popping a grape-flavored Jolly Rancher into his mouth before entering the dim nave of St. Augustine’s Cathedral on his way to conduct Mass. He laced his sermons with jokes, they said, but knew when to be serious, too, while leading his parishioners in prayer. These days, it is the priest, Msgr. Kevin Wallin, whose soul his parishioners are praying for.

    “This is all the work of evil,” Elizabeth Badjan, a longtime parishioner, said on Sunday as she left the 8:30 a.m. Mass at the church. “He was not close enough to God. He was tempted by the devil.”

    It was just days after the news that Monsignor Wallin had been indicted on charges that he had been part of a cross-country drug ring, sold crystal meth and possibly laundered the profits through an adult sex toy and video shop he owned. “He needs our prayers,” Ms. Badjan said, holy water still visible on her forehead.

    Monsignor Wallin stepped down as St. Augustine’s pastor in June 2011, telling parishioners he needed time to deal with personal and health problems, and the Diocese of Bridgeport granted him a sabbatical. Since then, according to a grand jury indictment filed on Jan. 15, he developed partnerships with crystal meth suppliers in California and sold thousands of dollars worth of the drug a month. He was arrested on Jan. 3, though the case did not become widely known until last week.

    But for the nine years Monsignor Wallin presided over St. Augustine, he seemed to churchgoers like the consummate priest, one high enough in the church’s good graces, they said, that he could be seen at Broadway musicals with Cardinal Edward M. Egan, his mentor and the former archbishop of New York. If anything was unusual, it was his ability to inspire and connect with his parishioners, they said. “Let me put it this way: He’s not a boring priest,” Philip Pham, 41, said before the 10 a.m. Mass as he headed toward the gray stone church, which overlooks a bustling highway and sits amid modest houses in Connecticut’s most populous city. “He was very inspirational,” he added, “very charismatic.”

    When Monsignor Wallin left the church, many were sad to see him go, Mr. Pham, who travels from nearby Fairfield every week to play guitar at St. Augustine, said. That was nothing compared with the devastation the church community felt when news of Monsignor Wallin’s arrest broke, several other parishioners said. “I cry my eyes out,” Ms. Badjan said of the day she heard the news. “Whole day, I couldn’t eat. And I asked God, ‘Why is this happening?’ ”

    Mr. Wallin faces seven counts on two charges, conspiring to distribute methamphetamine and possessing the drug with the intent of distributing it. According to the indictment, an informant told Drug Enforcement Administration officers that he had started buying several ounces of crystal meth every week — at a price of $1,500 per ounce — from Monsignor Wallin after meeting him at a party in early 2012. (The Connecticut Post reported that detectives said there was no indication that he had sold drugs while he was still serving as pastor.)

    An undercover officer then started buying crystal meth from Monsignor Wallin, who would sell it at his Waterbury apartment or hide it in a magazine and hand it over in parking lots. The police also said that Monsignor Wallin had purchased an adult video and novelty store in North Haven, called Land of Oz, which, the indictment said, he might have used to launder the money from the sales. Several people identified as Monsignor Wallin’s partners and suppliers were also charged. The diocese said that it had suspended Monsignor Wallin in May 2012, though it did not say why.

    The diocese released a statement expressing “shock and concern on the part of the diocese and the many people of Fairfield County who have known him as a gifted, accomplished and compassionate priest.” Glenda and Christine Beard, sisters who were baptized by Monsignor Wallin and who, while growing up, were his altar servers during Mass, said that he was full of jokes and was always eating Jolly Ranchers. When they were sleepy in the mornings, Glenda Beard, now 18, said, he would gently tease them.

    “What did you do last night?” he would ask, an impish suggestion, she said, in his voice. When Monsignor Wallin left St. Augustine, he was circumspect, telling them simply that he was going to a different church. “He wanted to help other people with their problems,” Ms. Beard said he told her.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    A Meth dealing priest.. how could that have happened.. ?
    “He was not close enough to God. He was tempted by the devil.”
    yeah... that sounds plausible. He could also have been a horrible person, but that's probably the devil's fault to.

    damn that pesky devil.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    From the LA Times
    Church sex abuse files unlikely to lead to charges, experts say

    Over the last decade, there have been numerous calls to prosecute Cardinal Roger M. Mahony and his top aides for their mishandling of clergy sex abuse. At least three grand juries, two district attorneys and a U.S. attorney have subpoenaed documents and summoned witnesses. None of those cases resulted in charges against the archdiocese's hierarchy.


    The release this week of a trove of internal church records showing a concerted effort to hide abuse from police triggered new demands from victims and church critics that Mahony and his advisors be held criminally accountable.

    Link


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    The EU has let Italy waive the billions in back-taxes that were levied against the church:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-lets-catholic-church-off-its-billioneuro-tax-bill-8426163.html
    The Vatican has received a generous early Christmas present from European Union chiefs with the announcement that illegal tax exemption from 2006 to 2011, which saved the Catholic Church billions of euros, will not have to be paid back.

    Europe’s Competition Commissioner, Joaquin Almunia, said two years ago that the Vatican’s exemption from Italian property tax, or ICI, payments, on thousands of buildings, including 4,714 hospitals and clinics, breached EU competition law. He suggested that the Church would have to cough up the missing payments.

    But now the European Commission has said that the Italian government had demonstrated that clawing back the missed payments “would be absolutely impossible” given how hard it would be to decide which properties in that period were being used exclusively for commercial purposes.

    This year the Italian government introduced a revised form of property tax, IMU, which the Commission is satisfied will allow tax breaks only for purely non-commercial buildings. As a result of the IMU, the Church’s tax bill will increase – but not by as much as some of its critics would like.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    robindch wrote: »
    The EU has let Italy waive the billions in back-taxes that were levied against the church:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-lets-catholic-church-off-its-billioneuro-tax-bill-8426163.html

    The RCC seems strangely reluctant to render onto Caesar...


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    robindch wrote: »
    The EU has let Italy waive the billions in back-taxes that were levied against the church:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-lets-catholic-church-off-its-billioneuro-tax-bill-8426163.html

    Corrupt scumbags.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    Gbear wrote: »
    Corrupt scumbags.

    Italy or the RCC?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,397 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    robindch wrote: »
    The EU has let Italy waive the billions in back-taxes that were levied against the church:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-lets-catholic-church-off-its-billioneuro-tax-bill-8426163.html

    They could spend millions to find out how much the Church owes and still make a profit. Utter nonsense not to be following up on this.

    Anyone other than the Vatican and they'd spend more money than they'd get just on principle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Italy or the RCC?

    Emm. Upon further reflection both.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Interesting program tonight on the Child Abuse cover up in London's Jewish community


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    What channel is it on?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    A Catholic Priest and a teacher in Philadelphia have been found guilty of child-sex charges....
    They ruined some poor guys life, amazing the things that Priest to do make you wish Hell existed.


    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/31/16785076-catholic-priest-teacher-convicted-in-child-sex-case?lite


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    What channel is it on?

    Ye can see it here
    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3470982


  • Moderators Posts: 51,739 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Priests' ecclesiastical missteps treated more sternly than abuse (Link to full article)
    The archdiocese of Los Angeles learned in the late 1970s that one of its priests had sexually assaulted a 16-year-old boy so violently that he was left bleeding and "in a state of shock." The priest said he was too drunk to remember what happened and officials took no further action.

    But two decades later, word reached Cardinal Roger M. Mahony that the same priest was molesting again and improperly performing the sacrament of confession on his victim. The archdiocese sprang to action: It dispatched investigators, interviewed a raft of witnesses and discussed the harshest of all church penalties—not for the abuse but for the violation of church law.

    "Given the seriousness of this abuse of the sacrament of penance … it is your responsibility to formally declare the existence of the excommunication and then refer the matter to Rome," one cleric told Mahony in a memo.

    The case of Father Jose Ugarte is one of several instances detailed in newly released records in which archdiocese officials displayed outrage over a priest's ecclesiastical missteps while doing little for the victims of his sexual abuse.

    The revelations emerged from 12,000 pages of the once-confidential personnel files of more than 100 priests accused of abuse. The archdiocese posted the documents on its website Thursday night, an hour after a Los Angeles judge ended five and a half years of legal wrangling over the release of the files with an order compelling the church to make the documents public within three weeks.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    koth wrote: »

    ... it's like something out of the onion...
    I mean... What's wrong with these people?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    A Catholic hospital in the US acknowledged it was “morally wrong” to argue in court that a foetus is not a human being under Colorado law.

    Lawyers representing St Thomas More Hospital took that position in papers filed to fend off a wrongful death lawsuit brought after unborn twins died in its emergency room.

    The position drew sharp criticism after the case was publicised last month.

    Catholic Healthcare Initiatives operates the hospital and said today in a statement that its executives acknowledged it was wrong to argue that the foetus is not a person under Colorado law.

    That contradicts church teaching.

    Colorado’s Catholic bishops reviewed the case and also released a statement praising the hospital for acknowledging the error of its legal argument and extending sympathy to the family that lost the twins.
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/catholic-hospital-morally-wrong-to-tell-court-foetus-is-not-a-person-583627.html

    So have they decided to not contest, offer no defense and pay up?



    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha - like that would ever happen.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Hard to know the real stories behind these two. But as written, they paint a damning picture of Saudi Arabian society:

    1. A prominent cleric was so fearful for the virginity of his five-year old daughter, Lama, that he burned, raped and savaged her in a manner too gruesome to describe, but not so badly that she wasn't able to survive for ten months in hospital before she died. Upon conviction in a Saudi court, the preacher was ordered to pay $50k to the mother, and serve a short prison term:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-celebrity-preacher-who-raped-and-tortured-his-five-yearold-daughter-to-death-is-released-after-paying-blood-money-8480440.html

    2. Around the same time, a different Saudi cleric suggested that the nation's girls, from baby upwards, can avoid the attention of child molesters by veiling themselves. As all good girls should:

    http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2013/02/03/264031.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    robindch wrote: »
    1. A prominent cleric was so fearful for the virginity of his five-year old daughter, Lama, that he burned, raped and savaged her in a manner too gruesome to describe, but not so badly that she wasn't able to survive for ten months in hospital before she died.
    Fayhan al-Ghamdi, who regularly appears on television in Saudi Arabia, is said to have agreed to pay £31,000 to Lama’s mother.
    The money is considered compensation under Islamic law, although it is only half the amount that would have been paid had Lama been a boy.
    Nice extra cherry on the cake there. Not only are you little women worth less in society figuratively, you're also literally worth less in the law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    robindch wrote: »
    2. Around the same time, a different Saudi cleric suggested that the nation's girls, from baby upwards, can avoid the attention of child molesters by veiling themselves. As all good girls should:

    http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2013/02/03/264031.html

    That's kinda their go-to thing isn't it.
    If women being mistreated... they should really try harder not to be.

    These nutters would be considered backward in the stone age.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    I was just reading through the Magdalene Laundries Report and was really horrified to read this paragraph in the executive summary:

    It just highlights why Ireland desperately needs a proper debate (and probably a referendum) on secularism.
    The Committee found that for some of the relevant periods, a number of voluntary organisations and their officers had an important role in certain aspects of the administration of the criminal justice system. These included
    organisations such as the Legion of Mary whose members served as voluntary Probation Officers until the expansion of the professional Probation Service in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The role of the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, in the years prior to the development of State social services, is also detailed in the Report.

    It's really terrifying to think that religious organisations were directly embedded in the administration of justice as recently as the 1970s.

    There are countless other examples of this kind of thing scattered throughout our system of Governance.

    Not to mention that every Oireachtas meeting still starts with:
    Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/a-misc/prayer.htm

    ....

    Stuff like this really makes me want to emigrate to somewhere sensible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,257 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Solair wrote: »
    It's really terrifying to think that religious organisations were directly embedded in the administration of justice as recently as the 1970s.
    Here on planet earth, we note that the text you quote shows that members of the Legion of Mary were doing voluntary work for the probation service up to forty years ago. There’s no suggestion that the organisation itself had any role. The NSPCC, it seems, did have some role, but it was (and is) a secular organization. There is no foundation in the text for your claim that “religious organizations were directly embedded in the administration of justice”; still less for your sensationalist thread heading asserting “religious organisations running probation services”. The services were, and still are, run by the Department of Justice.

    The Legion members were doing voluntary work, and no amount of referendums about secularism are going to get around the fact that, as long as the state is too tight-arsed to pay qualified professionals, they’ll have to rely on volunteers who will necessarily be motivated by altruistic concerns, quite possibly religious in nature.

    The answer to that problem, of course, is to recruit, pay and manage properly qualified staff, a decision apparently taken and implemented forty years ago.

    So a call for a referendum on secularism looks (a) to be misdirected, and (b) to have been long superseded by events. A more careful reading of the report would have led you to a less hysterical response.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Ah sure it's grand!

    Just have the nuns locking up women, religious organisations acting as probation officers, prayers in legislatures, almost no access to secular education...

    Ireland, unfortunately wouldn't know what a secular Republic was if it was bitten on the rear end by one.

    I'm very much on planet earth btw! I'm just not quite sure which century though. There are times this place seems to be in a medieval time warp!

    Also, attacking a poster by referring to them as "hysterical" won't just silence debate on an issue!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,886 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Here on planet earth, we note that the text you quote shows that members of the Legion of Mary were doing voluntary work for the probation service up to forty years ago.
    an aside, but someone recently pointed out to me that more time has elapsed since star wars came out than had elapsed between the end of WWII and the release of star wars.
    40 years is a long time in ireland, culturally speaking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    It's a long time culturally in some ways. However, we're still stuck with many legacy institutional issues and structures that were created in that era.

    We've still got almost zero access to a secular primary / secondary education system for the vast majority of people.

    Still have very little choice for things like hospitals / nursing homes etc for the elderly. My own granny wasn't at all religious but spent her last days being irritated by religious types in funny outfits attempting to pray over her in a state funded facility!

    We still have prayers etc in the Oireachtas.

    Last Magdalene Laundry was still open for dirty laundry in 1996!

    I actually think culturally Ireland really only saw dramatic change from the 1990s onward.

    Until we actually address the issue of church-state separation Ireland isn't a friendly home to anyone other than the de facto established church's members!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    I find it surreal, that of all the legitimate things to complain about regarding secularism in Ireland, you choose something that was resolved forty years ago.

    Anyway, despite plummeting adherence, we're probably going to have to wait one more generation for the kine to develop an actual understanding of secularism.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭GCU Flexible Demeanour


    Zillah wrote: »
    Anyway, despite plummeting adherence, we're probably going to have to wait one more generation for the kine to develop an actual understanding of secularism.
    I'd suggest secularism has a similar problem to atheism, as an objective, in that it doesn't mean anything coherent to people. It's fair enough to say that dumping your brassy daughter in a quasi-religious laundry for a year or two is a bit rough. But that isn't stating a common set of values or expectations for what rights and obligations people should observe. I think that's the missing element in all this; noisy shouting about this report is a cover for uncertainty about that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Zillah wrote: »
    I find it surreal, that of all the legitimate things to complain about regarding secularism in Ireland, you choose something that was resolved forty years ago.

    I find it surreal that you think this legacy is a non issue. Even for the 1970s it was absolutely bizarre in a western country.

    Many, many Irish people live in totally blissful ignorance of just how much religious interference in the legislative and governance process shaped and continues to shape how this country operates.

    I'm quite frankly shocked that any private organisation ever had a direct involvement in the administration of justice. It just says a lot about how this country was and to a large degree continues to be run.

    Are you saying I should just accept that this was/is fine? Or that I have no right to be at all taken a back that this was going on in the 1970s, which were a modern, forward thinking, progressive period in most other countries in our neck of the woods.

    Again, I'm just amazed at the immediately hostile reaction you get when you mention SECULARISM on forums here.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Latest secularism-related posts moved to new thread here.

    Get back to talking about the Magdalene Laundries or whatever other nasty religious stuff crosses your paths, please. :)


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    The church in Los Angeles was forced by court order to disclose its internal files on pedophile priests and the church's management of them. So a few days back, it uploaded 12,000 pages of documentation or so to its website, some of which makes pretty unpleasant reading:

    http://clergyfiles.la-archdiocese.org/listing.html

    The current archbishop of LA is so unhappy at his predecessor's management of the whole mess, that he's relieved him of all administrative and public duties. This kind of implied public reprimand of a cardinal by an archbishop is, to my knowledge, unique in the catholic church, an organization where, as the pedophile scandal showed, breaking ranks seems to be a most serious sin.

    Now, lawyers for the victims claim that the church has only released around one-third of what it should have.


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