Professional rugby players who don't know the laws of the game.

locum-motion · 04-02-2013 01:13AM #1

Unfortunately, I had to work on Saturday, so couldn't watch the match. I did manage to see little bits of it, though, on the RTE Player on the phone.

One of the bit that I did see was Sexton tackling Faletau just short of the try line, right beside one of the posts.

Now, the padding is part of the post, and the post is part of the line, and grounding the ball so that it touches the line is a try. (The ball does not have to fully cross the line to score, as it does in soccer) Therefore grounding the ball against the pad is a try, even if that means that no part of the ball is within 6-8 inches of the line itself. IIRC, Isaac Boss scored a try in this manner in the RWC.

All of this invites the question; why didn't Faletau ground it against the post? He seemed to be trying to drive onwards past the post to the in-goal, when I'm sure that he was close enough to score against the base of the post.

Could it be that he is unaware of the laws of the game?

And has anyone got other examples of laws that sometimes a professional player seems to be unaware of?

Fishooks13 · 04-02-2013 01:14AM

locum-motion wrote: »

Unfortunately, I had to work on Saturday, so couldn't watch the match. I did manage to see little bits of it, though, on the RTE Player on the phone.

One of the bit that I did see was Sexton tackling Faletau just short of the try line, right beside one of the posts.

Now, the padding is part of the post, and the post is part of the line, and grounding the ball so that it touches the line is a try. (The ball does not have to fully cross the line to score, as it does in soccer) Therefore grounding the ball against the pad is a try, even if that means that no part of the ball is within 6-8 inches of the line itself. IIRC, Isaac Boss scored a try in this manner in the RWC.

All of this invites the question; why didn't Faletau ground it against the post? He seemed to be trying to drive onwards past the post to the in-goal, when I'm sure that he was close enough to score against the base of the post.

Could it be that he is unaware of the laws of the game?

And has anyone got other examples of laws that sometimes a professional player seems to be unaware of?

No, he just couldn't reach.

Max Power · 04-02-2013 01:15AM

Wales backs don't seem to know about the forward pass rule. I counted at least 4 forward passes in the second half and none were spotted by the ref or his touch judges.

Burgo · 04-02-2013 01:15AM

Yeah he was a good few inches short of touching it.

who_me · 04-02-2013 01:30AM

locum-motion wrote: »

And has anyone got other examples of laws that sometimes a professional player seems to be unaware of?

There still seems to be a bit of confusion about the ball rolling over the dead ball line. Do they leave it roll dead? Can they put a foot over the line and touch it? Does that only work if the ball is still rolling? How about the similar cases when the ball is rolling towards the try line. A lot of players seem unsure and just play it safe.

Offside at scrum-time is another (the 'defending' scrum half has to keep both feet behind the line of the ball, that's fairly well known; but many 'attacking' scrum halves seem oblivious to the fact they must keep one foot behind the line of the ball).

I've seen a player lying in a ruck pick up the ball and dot it down over the try line (and the ref referred it to the TMO, and the TMO awarded it - so obviously being oblivious to the laws is fairly widespread!

)

TheKeenMachine · 04-02-2013 07:32AM

I don't think Richie McCaw knows any of the laws of the game.
But he's exempt so it's ok.

mrkiscool2 · 04-02-2013 07:38AM

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Wales backs don't seem to know about the forward pass rule. I counted at least 4 forward passes in the second half and none were spotted by the ref or his touch judges.

Actually, the way forward passes are reffed is that if the players hands are moving in a backward direction (i.e. they are moving to throw the ball backwards) it is not a forward pass even if the ball goes forward. A ball slightly going forward could be due to a hand-slip, wind, the way the ball spins, any number of things.

Gambas · 04-02-2013 10:06AM

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

I don't think Richie McCaw knows any of the laws of the game.
But he's exempt so it's ok.

That reminds me. I've promised to do something unpleasant to the next person who mentions that 'Richie McCaw was born offside'.

Teferi · 04-02-2013 10:56AM

I know this is a bit of a joke thread but I know a few lads at AIL level who openly talk about not knowing the rules. They know their role but wouldn't know too much of the intricacies of the game especially in the areas that are essentially open to Ref interpretation.

Deano7788 · 04-02-2013 11:17AM

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

I don't think Richie McCaw knows any of the laws of the game.
But he's exempt so it's ok.

I'd actually say he nearly knows them better than most referees and exactly how to exploit them.

locum-motion · 04-02-2013 11:20AM

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Actually, the way forward passes are reffed is that if the players hands are moving in a backward direction (i.e. they are moving to throw the ball backwards) it is not a forward pass even if the ball goes forward. A ball slightly going forward could be due to a hand-slip, wind, the way the ball spins, any number of things.

For a bit of surprising info as to what constitutes a forward pass, and what doesn't, watch this vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

Or, to put it another way, in mathematical terms:
(anyone who has a grasp of vectors, speed and velocity will get what I'm on about here)

Assume the ball is travelling (in a player's hands) towards the opposition line at a velocity of x m/s (metres per second).
The player then passes the ball to a teammate who is running parallel and a couple of metres behind. While in the air, lets say that the ball is travelling at y m/s, but in a different direction.
Treat the velocity of the ball during the pass as a vector, and resolve it into two components, one perpendicular to the touchline, and one parallel to the touchline. Call the parallel component z.

Now, some people seem to think that z has to be negative for a pass to be backward. It doesn't. As long as z < x, the pass is backward.
If the ball is moving towards the opposing line at 10 m/s in the player's hands, and is moving towards the opposing line at 5 m/s during the pass, then that's a backward pass.

iamjenko · 05-02-2013 08:51AM

Teferi wrote: »

I know this is a bit of a joke thread but I know a few lads at AIL level who openly talk about not knowing the rules. They know their role but wouldn't know too much of the intricacies of the game especially in the areas that are essentially open to Ref interpretation.

I've played with lads like that. I just dont get that attitude either, how can you enjoy a game if you dont understand why things are happening??

evil_seed · 05-02-2013 09:55AM

One that stood out from me in the game was on Murrays yellow card. I believe he was sin binned for side entry in the ruck and slowing down the ball. This was the 4th time in a row we did this so thoroughly desreved in my opinion. Now the bit that stood out was you could clearly hear Heaslip go "was it not a maul sir?" to the ref. Apparently Jamie believes that it's OK to go in from the side on a maul. That was my impression anyways

chris85 · 05-02-2013 10:05AM

evil_seed wrote: »

One that stood out from me in the game was on Murrays yellow card. I believe he was sin binned for side entry in the ruck and slowing down the ball. This was the 4th time in a row we did this so thoroughly desreved in my opinion. Now the bit that stood out was you could clearly hear Heaslip go "was it not a maul sir?" to the ref. Apparently Jamie believes that it's OK to go in from the side on a maul. That was my impression anyways

It was the binning of Best which Jamie asked was it a maul. I agree with Jamie here as the build up had two Ireland players hold up a Welsh man and was for good time and I would have considered that a maul except I didnt hear the ref call maul. The maul went to ground and Best was over the ball already and didnt have to release the player as it is a maul (it was to the Ireland players) and simply wrestled the ball free. Thats my interpretation of it. However the ref didnt call maul so thats that.

I thought it was poor reffing to be honest. The ref viewed it as a ruck, other would have felt a maul had formed at this point and that is where the difference lies. Also on this subject many people consider that when a maul goes down the players involved must roll away and release the ball, they dont. If I defending a maul and get a grip of the ball and the maul goes down you can be sure I wont let go and will do my best to fall on top of the ball to win the scrum for my team. And its legal.

Murray got binned for slapped the ball out of the scrum half's hand when he was going to pass from the ruck to first reciever. This was the correct call I believe.

Grimebox · 05-02-2013 10:09AM

locum-motion wrote: »

For a bit of surprising info as to what constitutes a forward pass, and what doesn't, watch this vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

Or, to put it another way, in mathematical terms:
(anyone who has a grasp of vectors, speed and velocity will get what I'm on about here)

Assume the ball is travelling (in a player's hands) towards the opposition line at a velocity of x m/s (metres per second).
The player then passes the ball to a teammate who is running parallel and a couple of metres behind. While in the air, lets say that the ball is travelling at y m/s, but in a different direction.
Treat the velocity of the ball during the pass as a vector, and resolve it into two components, one perpendicular to the touchline, and one parallel to the touchline. Call the parallel component z.

Now, some people seem to think that z has to be negative for a pass to be backward. It doesn't. As long as z < x, the pass is backward.
If the ball is moving towards the opposing line at 10 m/s in the player's hands, and is moving towards the opposing line at 5 m/s during the pass, then that's a backward pass.

Your explanation is quite clever. I never thought of it in terms of relitive velocity. So the faster a player is, the more "forward" his pass will be

CatFromHue · 05-02-2013 05:26PM

evil_seed wrote: »

One that stood out from me in the game was on Murrays yellow card. I believe he was sin binned for side entry in the ruck and slowing down the ball. This was the 4th time in a row we did this so thoroughly desreved in my opinion. Now the bit that stood out was you could clearly hear Heaslip go "was it not a maul sir?" to the ref. Apparently Jamie believes that it's OK to go in from the side on a maul. That was my impression anyways

As Chris85 said Murray got binned for knocking the ball out of the scrum half's hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGjnrVNYgts

Professional rugby players who don't know the laws of the game.

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