Things I wish I had done when building?

sheff the ref · 03-02-2013 07:38PM

It would be very poor foresight not to include at least one electric shower in a new house for emergency purposes. What happens if the hot water system breaks down, the plumber cant come for 2 days, and you really need a shower?

randombar · 03-02-2013 08:08PM

sheff the ref wrote: »

It would be very poor foresight not to include at least one electric shower in a new house for emergency purposes. What happens if the hot water system breaks down, the plumber cant come for 2 days, and you really need a shower?

Yup two years in I've ran out of oil twice cause I never bother checking. Early on a winters morning solar panels aren't doing much and too early to light the stove delighted I've an electric shower!!

New build in sight · 03-02-2013 08:45PM

GaryCocs wrote: »

Yup two years in I've ran out of oil twice cause I never bother checking. Early on a winters morning solar panels aren't doing much and too early to light the stove delighted I've an electric shower!!

Ok this is making me think! The place where we were buying these things he said we'd be mad to buy an electric shower as theyre not as powerful as power shower when using a pressureised system. Of course this was just his opinion and i suppose we never consdiered the factors mentioned above. He did say at any time we could exchange them before we install them in case we change our mind.
Tks!

just do it · 03-02-2013 09:11PM

Surely having an immersion as back up makes more sense?

03-02-2013 09:46PM

Have a look at "cold water accumulators" they provide the "power shower" effect without electricity, basically it's a big tank with a rubber balloon in it that gives the cold mains water a bit of extra pressure. These work great in a system that uses mains pressure hot water as I have great powerful showers and can fill up a bath is half the time, the accumulator holds enough (pressureised) water to 3/4 fill a bath, plenty for a shower,

New build in sight · 04-02-2013 06:11PM

just do it wrote: »

Surely having an immersion as back up makes more sense?

Hi, What do you mean by this? Why wouldnt we have an immersion? How does this affect having an electric shower? Sorry i am unfamiliar with plumbing

What in your opinion is best option?

sheff the ref · 04-02-2013 07:22PM

An electric shower is instant unlike an immersion. It would be madness not to have an electric shower somewhere in the house as a backup.

just do it · 05-02-2013 12:17AM

You'll be able to have a shower 20mins after flicking the immersion switch. It also means you'll have hot water at your sinks. Depending on your heating system your hot tank maybe part of it. For the number of times your system is likely to fail, and the number of times you'll not be able to wait 20mins for a shower, I believe the immersion is the better of the two options. Of course you could put in both

New build in sight · 05-02-2013 12:28AM

just do it wrote: »

You'll be able to have a shower 20mins after flicking the immersion switch. It also means you'll have hot water at your sinks. Depending on your heating system your hot tank maybe part of it. For the number of times your system is likely to fail, and the number of times you'll not be able to wait 20mins for a shower, I believe the immersion is the better of the two options. Of course you could put in both

OK well after speaking with himself he agrees with this point.
Thank you to all for their points!

sheff the ref · 05-02-2013 09:00PM

A Triton T90 costs a little over €200 and only requires power and a connection from the Cold Water tank. Nothing more. Not budget or labour intensive when building a house. I will be putting one in anyway.

New build in sight · 05-02-2013 09:07PM

sheff the ref wrote: »

A Triton T90 costs a little over €200 and only requires power and a connection from the Cold Water tank. Nothing more. Not budget or labour intensive when building a house. I will be putting one in anyway.

Funny hearing both sides of the debate, but you know the idea of putting 2 in the one shower is not a crazy thought really.....
Are there ary electric showers out there that are good pressure wise?

sheff the ref · 05-02-2013 10:04PM

Would prefer to do it building than to regret it afterwards.

Electric showers operate on the principle that the water is heated as it passes through an element. My homeplace is an old house with no insulation overhead the bathroom where the electric shower is.

In summer time the cold water tank in the attic will be warmer, particularly during a heatwave, that means that the shower can be set at a lower temperature on the blue side of the adjustment, leading to a greater flow of water as it does not need to spend as much time on the element and it can actually be quite powerful.

In really frosty weather the temperature of the water is much colder leading to it needing more time over the element, and this means you have to turn it well up onto the red side of the adjustment which slows the flow to allow the cooler water to be heated sufficiently by the element. The flow is sufficient, but nowhere near as powerful as during the summer.

just do it · 06-02-2013 12:11AM

sheff the ref wrote: »

Would prefer to do it building than to regret it afterwards.

Electric showers operate on the principle that the water is heated as it passes through an element. My homeplace is an old house with no insulation overhead the bathroom where the electric shower is.

In summer time the cold water tank in the attic will be warmer, particularly during a heatwave, that means that the shower can be set at a lower temperature on the blue side of the adjustment, leading to a greater flow of water as it does not need to spend as much time on the element and it can actually be quite powerful.

In really frosty weather the temperature of the water is much colder leading to it needing more time over the element, and this means you have to turn it well up onto the red side of the adjustment which slows the flow to allow the cooler water to be heated sufficiently by the element. The flow is sufficient, but nowhere near as powerful as during the summer.

Thanks for that explanation, never thought about it but it makes perfect sense.

stringbean · 27-02-2013 09:53AM

Great thread!!!!

We're at the design stage and currently looking at the interior layout particularly around the kitchen and utility room and of course storage space. Getting kinda of daunted as now I know I won't get it right first time I'll be getting some grief from the other half

BoardsMember · 27-02-2013 10:05AM

stringbean wrote: »

Great thread!!!!

We're at the design stage and currently looking at the interior layout particularly around the kitchen and utility room and of course storage space. Getting kinda of daunted as now I know I won't get it right first time I'll be getting some grief from the other half

That's a real challenge. I have heard people using interior engineers or something like that, i.e. people who discuss layout, flow etc. Not an architect, not an interior designer. Not sure what the name is, but getting this right can be the difference between an acceptable outcome and a wow factor, where you feel you nailed it.

Villain · 27-02-2013 10:36AM

Stringbean when you looking at designs be sure to include blocks of appliances that you will want and also talk to a kitchen supplier/designer and make sure the design fits what you want.

A small example we wanted an American style fridge Freezer which varies from 700 to 800mm in depth which is deeper that common appliances so we adjusted the position of door and window to allow for it.

BoardsMember · 27-02-2013 11:14AM

Do people generally get the architect to design their kitchen so that they end up with internal finished measurements that allow for standard size cabinets. It would seem to make sense, avoid cost of bespoke sized units etc, I just don't know if that is the norm. And assuming that the builders can build to that degree of accuracy - can they? The idea of getting a granite worktop that doesnt fit to the edges would give me sleepless nights!!

New build in sight · 27-02-2013 03:34PM

The arch designed our kicthen, just the general layout as it was difficult to think about the kitchen at design stage as we werent even sure we would get planning, but if i could go back i would have went through all my interiors magazines and researched as much as i could on the layout etc. Thankfully i am very happy with my layout now, but there would be things i would have prepfered for example these are things i didnt consider when i was planning:

1. Where are you going to put teh extractor fan - i didnt want it over the island as i wanted the space to remain clear of anything, and i wanted the overmantle, so the wall that will have the extracter now has to house the pipe along the wall to the exterior wall, which means we now have no choice but to have wall cabinets at eye level which is one thing i actually didnt want.

2. The size of a slab of quartz is generally 3m x 1.2m so bear this in mind when choosing the island layout.

3. I want and will have my window seat but it took some logistics to work out how the counter top would finish next to the window seat.

4. Do you want a large pantry, where will this be? We had to block off a door going into the utlility (which i was actually happy about in the end!) but it helped the design layout which the arch didnt see.

5. Look now for the type of oven/range style you will buy as certain ones come in certain sizes and some are so much more expensive than you think!

6. My kitchen is about 7m x 4.5m i would have prefered just a tad wider perhaps 5m, when you add insulated slab boards etc it can eat into your space so bear that in mind.

7. Remember your gadgets and how they will work in the kitchen, make sure there is additional sockets in the island if you want the Quooker tap etc.

8. Think about your microwave! And where it will end up, this is something i keep forgetting, and i want it built in, i dont want it sitting on the counter top!

9. Dont forget to think if you are putting a TV in the kicthen, think about where people will sit and where plugs etc will go.

10. For the utility make sure you flick through houzz.com for inspiration, i found a fab room that will work perfect in my utility, which is small enough. I wanted seated area in the utlity and i wanted the dryer and washing machine at waist high rather than on the floor.

If i was to ever do this again i would definately plan my kitchen first! When you see it on paper it looks great when the arch is showing you but sometimes it doesnt actually work out that way

Oh and one last thing, i wanted a recessed ceiling over the island unit, with rope light behind the recess, but we didnt make this clear enough to the people doing the ceilings and ended up that we didnt have enough room for the rope light! We have reconfigured it and it has worked out but these little things can throw you if you dont foreward plan them!

Good luck!

sheff the ref · 27-02-2013 05:57PM

There are two things you need in a kitchen
1.As much natural light as possible
2.As much storage space as possible

Do not allow any professional to brainwash you into thinking that you have enough storage space on a drawing, evaluate based on working houses that you know of belonging to family friends etc. For instance my mothers kitchen is L shaped in a square room, and has 4.5m of upper and lower kitchen units along each wall. That is a total of 9m of kitchen, or 18m of presses including above and below. There is a utility room with additional large storage capacity.

That is not excessive in my opinion and there is no press that is not used. Several people have tried to tell me that its ridiculous having so much etc. etc. but my own house will not have less kitchen storage space. An Island is an option, but I dont particularly like Islands, and therefore may not have one. I am certainly not going to sacrifice wall storage with or without an island.

My mothers kitchen has only one window, so that helped in terms in terms of space but not in terms of having the light available.

However I would say that Kitchen units arent really that expensive anymore so maximise that storage space to the very limit.

just do it · 27-02-2013 09:03PM

Also consider the height of kitchen units. We currently have some units with the top shelf at 6ft high. As the two of us are 5'7" and 5'8" they're not great. Our build will have units with a top shelf no higher than ~5'4" - 5'6".

sheff the ref · 27-02-2013 09:35PM

The modern trend is to have three shelves on the high up units. Very difficult to avoid having them high with three shelves.

I am 6'0" myself but the height wouldnt worry me. I would prefer to have the capacity and use the top shelf for rarely used stuff than not to have the capacity at all. I would use a mini steps if I had to

New build in sight · 27-02-2013 10:41PM

just do it wrote: »

Also consider the height of kitchen units. We currently have some units with the top shelf at 6ft high. As the two of us are 5'7" and 5'8" they're not great. Our build will have units with a top shelf no higher than ~5'4" - 5'6".

This is exactly the point i was trying to say in my big speech.... i really didnt want wall cupboards, as we're not exactly the tallest family, plus i like the simple style of no wall cabinets.

I only wanted waist level units and my pantry, but when it was all planned out we needed to put some wall units in, to hide the extracter fan pipe! I was so disappointed but hey im sure it will be lovely in the end. But these are important points that someone that is about to start designing a house should be looking at.

Wish this thread was available to me before we started

BryanF · 27-02-2013 11:43PM

New build in sight wrote: »

The arch designed our kicthen, just the general layout as it was difficult to think about the kitchen at design stage as we werent even sure we would get planning!

So just to be clear, you only employed an architect for planning stage? Did you employ s/he for tender stage dwgs and spec?

Irish Steve · 28-02-2013 12:09AM

Come late to this thread,

Try to design the layout with pipe runs from storage tanks to the areas like bathrooms and kitchen as short as possible.

Try to make sure that your window positions work with the unit layouts in kitchen and utility.

If the architect is trying to make you have things like Velux Windows in a bathroom that go through an unheated area of the roof, tell him where to stick his Velux Windows, you will have nothing but trouble with damp and condensation in the tunnel up to the window. Geetting up to it will be a nightmare, and decorating it will be eveh harder.

If you are designing the house, make sure that the storage tanks in the roof are the largest you can fit.

Don't go with the "standard" small size hot water tank that seems to be the favourite of most architects and installers if you plan to have power showers.

Make sure that the electrician labels every circuit breaker on the panel before he leaves the job, it will save you much heartache at a later date.

Get the Plumber to show you where every control valve in the system is, and that you know what it does.

At least once a year, completely close and then re open the main incoming stop cock valve on the water supply coming into the property.

Twice a year, test the main fuse board earth leakage protection breaker.

Make sure that the alarm installer leaves you the user manual, and a complete list of what sensors are connected to which zones, and how to exclude one or more zones in the event of a fault.

Make sure you know where the incoming gas cut off valve is, and that you know how to operate it.

Make sure that you have at least 2 spare fuses for the incoming main fuse on the main panel.

Make a note of the key number of all the internal doors before they get mixed up and dumped in a big heap in a drawer.

If you are doing the building, before the floor coverings go down, put a clear and permanent line on the floor wherever there are pipes, and if upstairs, where there are wires.

Most of the above are based on experience in one house or another.

sheff the ref · 28-02-2013 09:18PM

I am hoping to have my hot water storage tank etc in the Garage with insulated piping underground because it gives greater flexibility for changing heating systems, solar etc. later on without butchering the house. Why do you prefer a shorter run for pipes?

randombar · 28-02-2013 09:57PM

sheff the ref wrote: »

I am hoping to have my hot water storage tank etc in the Garage with insulated piping underground because it gives greater flexibility for changing heating systems, solar etc. later on without butchering the house. Why do you prefer a shorter run for pipes?

Shorter run means less cold water going into the hot tank to replace the hot water running along the pipes to get to the tap.

sheff the ref · 28-02-2013 10:52PM

Food for thought allright. Had originally considered a plant room, but the side of the garage will be south facing making it the most suitable place for solar panels. If solar is in the garage, and the heatpump is in the garage, it would make sense to have the hot water storage tank there especially with the potential for change in the future.

Need a think about that one

Irish Steve · 01-03-2013 01:37AM

No matter how well insulated the pipe runs are, from the hot tank to the kitchen, or bathroom, will go cold over a longer period, like overnight. If you have to run the tap for ever to get hot water, that's going to become expensive once we go metered, and it puts that much cold water into the tank that then has to be heated, and there's a whole pipe full of hot water under the floor or whereever going cold until the next time you want hot water. Maybe not such an issue for a bath, but it for sure is for a utility or Kitchen, or even a hot fill washing machine, especially if some of the pipe is laid in 22 mm rather than 15mm.

Due to long runs and 22mm for much of it, we have to run off nearly 3 litres in the kitchen before the hot goes hot. If we don't need much cold, that's going to become increasingly expensive as time goes on.

On balance, long runs from source to storage will be better than long runs from storage to usage, that loop is at least a closed loop, so not being changed in the same way.

sheff the ref · 01-03-2013 10:30PM

How far is your hot water supply from the bathroom, kitchen and utility???

02-03-2013 02:37PM

sheff the ref wrote: »

How far is your hot water supply from the bathroom, kitchen and utility???

Too far! I should have clustered those rooms together better.

Things I wish I had done when building?

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