Free college fees? Should they be scrapped?

A loan is a good idea in theory, but when so many graduates have such a slim chance of securing a job after graduating, who's going to give them a loan if it doesn't look like they'll be able to pay it back?

Laura_lolly87 wrote: »

I paid €2,250 to go back to college this year. It's €2,500 next year, I don't qualify for a grant so have to save the money myself. Hiking the cost up too about €5,000 only makes college available for the very rich.

Im in the same boat myself. I disagree that its only for the very rich as if you have very little money you get to go for free. Its the squeezed middle that it effects the most. The same with every walk of life in Ireland.

I love how it is usually people who have done their time in "free education" are usually the ones that say to scrap it now they are finished. Many people struggle through college and I rather we had a highly educated work force, the better qualified people are, usually the more they earn, meaning the more tax they pay and more money back into the economy.

College isn't free. Fees are 3,500, rent, food, books, printing money, etc, Yeah there are those who take the piss with their courses and drink excessively, etc but they would do that even if they weren't in college.

I attended University in Australia which when I went through had the HECS (higher education contribution scheme). I think it's now called HELP (higher education loan programme) or something like that. There were three fee levels and each subject had a fee classification - subjects related to the arts the lowest and subjects relating to profession degrees the highest. So you in my case where I did some arts subjects like psychology and linguistics but also professional subjects such as human anatomy I was charged $500 per semester for psychology and $1500 for anatomy for example. By the time I finished uni 5 yrs later i had a HECS bill close to $25 000. However the scheme is designed so that you don't pay anything off your HECS bill until you start earning over a certain threshold which was around $35,000 at the time. You would pay off about 4% of the bill, taken directly from your wage. If you earn $40000 you pay 4.5% and so forth. Your debt only increased at the rate of inflation - there was no interest as such. I think mine was paid off after 5yrs of working. You also had the option of paying the fees upfront and getting a significant discount, however that discount has reduced now I believe.

Without the HECS scheme I wouldn't have been able to attend uni and as it was I worked two jobs just to support myself. The current situation in Ireland is that the government is paying to educate people to immigrate and provide nurses, teaches, physios, engineers etc to other countries, which is a great bonus to those countries as they are not having to educate them. With the way the economy is, I can't see how Ireland can continue with the current system. The HECS system may not be perfect, but it allows education to be accessible to everyone and helps the country recoup some of the costs.

Do people not realise that the US and the UK and pretty much every 1st world developed country have this exact problem of "too many going to college"? Of degrees being devalued? It is the same everywhere.

Making people pay (evidently) doesn't solve this. What it DOES do is create a whole new problem-it puts a hell of a lot of people in debt. People still want to go to college, and will take out huge loans/do whatever it takes to go.

I would agree with brummytom-the emphasis really needs to come off having a degree before this problem is solved, because that mentality is just crazy. Charging people more in the hopes of restricting them is obviously easier to do, but it just doesn't work. There's a lot more to it than I've mentioned, and certainly a lot more to it than money.

I think we would do well to keep investing heavily in universities to be honest.

Pilotdude5 wrote: »

Only if there's job in their industry. A lot of people appear to think college will entitle them to a job. Look at what's happening to the graduates in China.

I do think the whole 3rd Level system need to be altered here and maybe worldwide TBH. I fell into the trap at 18 of picking a few thing on the CAO just to get a degree. (Flying is not a degree, it doesn't even register on the NVQ.)

I did a good Leaving Cert and off I went but quickly realised my mistake. I wasted a year in fee's and expensive accommodation but at least I got out with minimal financial damage.

Now I'm seeing many friends graduate with a degree in an industry they have no interest in. Some admit their mistake and will seek to rectify it by expensively re-training, the rest are in denial and seem content to tell people they have a degree in something.

The number of Uni courses need to be drastically reduced and the courses eliminated can be two - three year apprenticeships or whatever.(Thats the part I havn't thought through!:o)

I said myself there are waster courses. Arts is fine, if you do more with it and become a teacher etc. but overall most people do toss all with the degree itself. My partner did it, worked as an archaeologist for a few years and was left unemployed by the bust, though we saw it coming and he went into medicine, paid 10 grand for the privilege, hated it and went into veterinary and has forked out 40 grand so far and at least another 10 more next year. It is only for his inheritance from his father and credit union loans we have done it. Choosing your career as a teenager is not a great idea.

I think there are too many courses in some things, a good example is there are 1,600 nurse qualified every year, we don't need that many qualifying it makes getting work in that sector harder, even worse now with the employment freeze.

i am currently in my first year of college and dont pay a cent in fees. knowing that others paying their fees and paying taxes covers me gives me an extra spring in the step on the way to college everyday.im also on btea which i blow on hookers and coke every weekend...:D

I think free fees are important..

step 1) free fees for all! YAY
step 2) tax grads slightly more (boooooo)
step 3) Persuade companies to pay grads more by following the guide in step 4
step 4) ???

result: educated workforce essentially being paid for by companies

I believe this is the one thing in Ireland that should be left alone. Everyone who wants an education and is serious about it should be entitled to it only.

However, there are certain people(s) in each college, IT etc who fit these descriptions and should clamped down on:

The one's who claim and play the system: I know a certain person who is claiming the grant, hear scheme, medical cards ALL WHILE having a not only one decent part time job but two! They have one job in the county they're going to college in and another job to go back to when they're home! I knew another person in my course who was claiming the dole while on the grant!

And let's not forget the "playboys/girls" in universities too! The ones who were in ambitious feeder schools/private schools but were not the brightest bulbs in the box and are only there cause of mommy and doddy threw money at them with the supped up golfs repeating 1st year for the 3rd time with the promises of "I've really copped on this year"! Plenty of these people in abundance!
Knew a girl who's parents were good enough to send her up a grand a month for maintenance and rent. All she did was stay in bed all day, miss lectures and party constantly!

^I'm sure if we got rid of these types of chancer's in universities taking up places, we'd see an improvement!

Basically, there are people out there who use the system genuinely but there are others there who play it completely or are in universities just to be there taking up places and time.

I believe there should be an interview to accompany the points system.

I myself, you wouldn't regard me as a typical student. I don't party money away, I work constantly and pay my own fee's! And I get screwed for it!

steddyeddy wrote: »

I was having a discussion on another thread about colleges and the free fees system. I personally do not have anything against free fees for any group at the momentbut I know some people think that we should be paying for them in a recession. There’s another argument that free fees improve access to third level for people from disadvantaged areas but as other people have mentioned there’s a lot of other challenges facing people from those areas and I would agree with them tobe honest. If it came down to it for me I do think that there are people who can afford to pay fees in college who should pay fees if fees are brought in.Some people just drink their way through college and maybe it will change thatbut saying that at the moment free fees are something I’m ok with forevery body. What does everyone else think?

Good idea, I'll copy over my take on it:

The poblem is free fees seem to be no better at helping the disadvantaged than the old system:

http://www.universitytimes.ie/2011/10/26/the-myth-of-free-fees/

It's funny, given the context of the thread, that more left wing elements have hijacked the policy of free fees as some type of socialist policy when it has accomplished little to help the disadvantaged sections of society that need targeted help.

It helped middle income families just above the threshold and the wealthy who could then divert the saved fees towards private education and/or grinds. I'm sorry, I hate this "think of the poor" line when talk of scrapping free fees comes up, it's nonsensical, the poor and disadvantaged would get free fees anyway if we went back to the old system, it's a disingenuous and appeal to emotion argument.

The wealthy paying and the lower to middle classes getting help is a socialist policy but for some reason is seen as an attack on the disadvantaged. Political problems are often complex but to me, this is simple and I'm at a complete loss as to why people can't see this.