Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

[Constitutional Convention][2][26 Jan 2013] Reducing the voting age to 17

2»

Comments

  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Yes, foreign income tax payers resident and paying for a set number of years (3?) should be able to vote as well.
    What's so magical about income tax that it should be the primary qualifier for voting rights? What about all the VAT she paid before she started paying income tax?
    Nothing controversial about this. It should be 15.
    Why not 12? Or 8?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,461 ✭✭✭Blisterman


    It's an interesting concept to think about, taken to the extreme children could be told by their parents to vote a certain way without issue as they are still under the parents control (legally) vote rigging anyone?

    It would still be a private ballot, so I don't see how this is an issue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    I was dismayed that one political party published a press release the day before the Convention met. I made my opinion known to Tom during the final private session, voting in the Steering Group.

    Sinn Féin, you should be ashamed of yourself. I believe all other parties were on radio silence until after the event. Open to correction on that.

    I suggested to Tom that this sort of passive aggressive influence be stopped for future sessions. I don't know how realistic this can be achieved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    RangeR wrote: »
    I was dismayed that one political party published a press release the day before the Convention met. I made my opinion known to Tom during the final private session, voting in the Steering Group.

    Sinn Féin, you should be ashamed of yourself. I believe all other parties were on radio silence until after the event. Open to correction on that.

    I suggested to Tom that this sort of passive aggressive influence be stopped for future sessions. I don't know how realistic this can be achieved.

    But none of the Sinn Fein reps turned up on the Saturday - did they?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    But none of the Sinn Fein reps turned up on the Saturday - did they?

    The three primaries [Gerry, Mary and Martin] did not attend. They sent replacements instead.

    I've heard no reason for this change.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,047 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    RangeR wrote: »
    I was dismayed that one political party published a press release the day before the Convention met. I made my opinion known to Tom during the final private session, voting in the Steering Group.

    Sinn Féin, you should be ashamed of yourself. I believe all other parties were on radio silence until after the event. Open to correction on that.

    I suggested to Tom that this sort of passive aggressive influence be stopped for future sessions. I don't know how realistic this can be achieved.

    ? i was about to ask what they party policy from all party's was on this issues, i know labour are very bullish on it, any parties more quiet on it, therefore against it? do you suggest that this might influence sinn fein supporters in the assembly somehow unaware of the party policy.

    helpfully they've said what way they voted http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/25519 i'll have to do a list and check how all the other politicians voted, and whoever else said which way they voted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,047 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    RangeR wrote: »
    True. But you cannot take those results on their own merit. There is an entire narrative that needs to go with it to explain those results. For example, I votedto reduce the age but only under certain conditions. Some of them being

    1. Political education needs to be ramped up, all the way to leaving cert.
    2. MUST have a trial run with absolute quantitative analyses, probably with reform of the register to show age groupings.

    Without these conditions, I do not agree with dropping the age. So, it's not black and white.



    the social care representative might seem to go off the point a bit as he mentions our history of not looking after children but i think he has point that its naieve to think that everything will go swimmingly with this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    the social care representative might seem to go ff the point a bit as he mentions our history of not looking after children but i think he has point that its naieve to think that everything will go swimmingly with this.


    The boy did well. However, the sheer amount of data he spoke about could have been reduced by about 50%, relaxed and STILL got his point across.

    I'll be honest, I didn't take in everything he said. However, his points were discussed in round table.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,047 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    the nyci reps , just your average 16 - 17 years olds.... not

    so 16 year old can work full time but how many do in ireland looked at the cso.ie can't find that figure.


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Thanks as always for your updates RangeR, I'm sure I speak for many who have read your threads on the Convention in saying.... Well Done!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    Ah sure, you make an old man blush.

    I sort of fooked up today, though. Thought I was doing the right thing in inviting a "fringe" [but very important] group on boards to discuss the current two topics. I was, in no uncertain words, told to fook off by one of the mods.

    In fairness, I DIDN'T read their charter and what I did was not allowed. Fair enough. But that .... mod was .... disrespectful to say the least.


    Hmmm, I typed up a good bit of a rant but decided it's best not to post it so I guess I have nothing more constructive to say on this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,011 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Sorry for digging up a (relatively) old thread, but I wonder who opposed lowering the voting age to 18 back in the (IIRC) 1970s?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    Sorry for digging up a (relatively) old thread, but I wonder who opposed lowering the voting age to 18 back in the (IIRC) 1970s?

    I'm unsure. However, in one of the presentations on the day of the #ccven, I believe that was mentioned. The documents are here, if you'd like.

    But it might have been said in an adhoc way, maybe in Q&A. It's only a suggestions, but you could watch the Youtube vidoes of that meeting :) ##cven do have a YouTube channel. That will take a LONG time, though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,047 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    how many of the convention members read how many of the submission documents?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    how many of the convention members read how many of the submissions documents?

    Impossible question to answer

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    It is impossible to answer. For myself, I try to read them all. However, they are also given to us on the day, to read over at our leisure. One of each side is also then recited back to us, in plenary, by the actual professionals who provided them.

    The other submissions are also verbally made known to us on the day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    You have the ask the question: why a particular age?

    18 is about the age that people will finish up their secondary education. At this age they become an adult, and have no real legal restrictions. It makes sense to coincide voting with this age.

    But it isn't actually mandatory that people be in school until that age. By the age of 16 (I think) we have said that people have been under the auspices of the state long enough such that they can have the choice whether to stay on in education or not. The fact that most do is not the point - we believe they have enough knowledge that the state need not insist on their continuing education.

    Of course one could say that we should wait until people have a third level qualification or alternatively, some experience in the working world - which would provide a case for setting the age to 21.

    Is anybody actually forwarding any real reason for this issue to be debated at all? :confused: Is it just random noise?

    In fact it is strange that we should be debating an issue where we are the norm, whereas with the age-of-consent we have one of the highest age restrictions in the world (which has some pretty hair-raising laws for teenagers, not to mention sexually discriminatory legislation). :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,523 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    well they have to give the impression of doing something at these meetings


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    I received a draft of the report a week ago. The report was presented to Government today so I assume there were no changes. Draft attached. Happy Reading.

    Edit : Attachment is too big. Try this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    I just saw this in today's Irish Times. Haven't heard it on the radio or officially through ccven yet.

    Reduction of voting age from 18 to 16 to be put to referendum
    The Government has accepted the recommendation of the constitutional convention to lower the voting age from 18 to 16 and has committed that the matter will be put to referendum during the lifetime of this administration.

    The Cabinet, at its weekly meeting yesterday, decided to accept three of the four major recommendations that emerged from the first session of the convention in January.

    The convention is comprised of 66 citizens and 33 politicians and is chaired by former head of Concern Tom Arnold. It has been asked to deliberate on a range of issues that might merit constitutional change.

    Ministers also agreed that a referendum be held on the recommendation that the minimum age requirement for a president be reduced from 35 to 21. The Cabinet accepted another conclusion of the convention that the presidential term should remain at seven years and not be reduced to five.

    The one major departure of Cabinet from the convention report is its rejection of its recommendation that ordinary citizens have a role in the nomination process in a presidential election.

    At present, a person cannot become a candidate for a presidential election unless they are supported by at least 20 Oireachtas members or by four local authorities. The argument was made by former candidate Senator David Norris that it tended to exclude those from outside political parties. The recommendation was overwhelmingly supported by 94 per cent of delegates.

    By contrast, the result for the reduction in voting age was marginal, 52 per cent to 47.

    As a concession, the issue is being referred to the Oireachtas environment committee for further discussion.

    “It was felt that the current system where nominations are made through elected representatives is a democratic process,” said a source.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭PRAF


    RangeR wrote: »
    I just saw this in today's Irish Times. Haven't heard it on the radio or officially through ccven yet.

    Reduction of voting age from 18 to 16 to be put to referendum

    I'm still trying to get my head around the conventions decision to maintain the current voting system, keep the same number of TDs, and recommend bigger multi-seat constituencies. A terrible missed opportunity to reform our broken political system. It's a ringing endorsement of parish pump politics


Advertisement