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2013 NFL DRAFT

1679111264

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,788 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    No available QB is worth an overall no.1 pick this year.

    Take a Franchise Left Tackle and whoever ends up playing QB there will benefit for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭Justin10


    eagle eye wrote: »
    The Chiefs have to take Joeckel I think. They have a horrendous OL and left tackle is the first spot they have to fill.

    I dont watch the Chiefs a lot but dont they have a pretty good O line if they resign Albert?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,788 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Rochey18 wrote: »
    I dont watch the Chiefs a lot but dont they have a pretty good O line if they resign Albert?

    No, their O Line was an absolute disaster this year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    With the doubt surrounding the quarterbacks in the draft what do people think the Chiefs will do? I was all for them taking Geno Smith (n it cud still happen if he performs well at combine etc.) but if not what will the do?

    I see Luke Joeckel n Star Lotulelei as prob the 2 top players on the Board at this stage. Could they engineer a trade with Philly or Detroit if Joeckel becomes the clear number 1 choice. They could then take Smith (or possibly Tyler Wilson who is growing on me) at 4 or 5 and have couple extra picks?

    I dont see the Eagles moving up. With Jason Peters back next season no mad need to mvoe up for Joeckel especially with the OT talent on the board. They are unlikely to go DE in round one so wont move up for Lotulelei. In fact if anything I see the Eagles looking to move down the board rather than up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    No, their O Line was an absolute disaster this year.

    Imagine waht Jamal Charles could do with a half decent line in front of him.


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  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Karson Large Zenith


    D3PO wrote: »

    I dont see the Eagles moving up. With Jason Peters back next season no mad need to mvoe up for Joeckel especially with the OT talent on the board. They are unlikely to go DE in round one so wont move up for Lotulelei. In fact if anything I see the Eagles looking to move down the board rather than up.
    Peters is getting on a bit and he may not be the same after injury even if he does come back pop joeckel to rt and herrimans back in to rg and you have an elite line and a young stud tackle we can pop over to lt later if we want

    Similarly we're sorted at end IMO but star is a tackle Jenkins has been hot and cold and iv heard his attitude leaves a lot to be desired with star and cox we potentially have 10 years of close to the best interior line in football like the vikes did with the Williams wall for a while
    This has multiple benifits
    1. Kendricks can blitz unblocked
    2. Our lbs don't have to fight traffic if a rb does manage to get to the second level
    3. The qb will find it impossible to get in rythem with graham and cox collapsing the pocket

    I wouldn't mind trading down if we get a good deal but both of these guys are ment to be studs and its hard to say no to that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Peters is getting on a bit and he may not be the same after injury even if he does come back pop joeckel to rt and herrimans back in to rg and you have an elite line and a young stud tackle we can pop over to lt later if we want

    Similarly we're sorted at end IMO but star is a tackle Jenkins has been hot and cold and iv heard his attitude leaves a lot to be desired with star and cox we potentially have 10 years of close to the best interior line in football like the vikes did with the Williams wall for a while
    This has multiple benifits
    1. Kendricks can blitz unblocked
    2. Our lbs don't have to fight traffic if a rb does manage to get to the second level
    3. The qb will find it impossible to get in rythem with graham and cox collapsing the pocket

    I wouldn't mind trading down if we get a good deal but both of these guys are ment to be studs and its hard to say no to that.

    you make a compelling argument. Theres enough quality tackles on the board not to move up for Joeckel though and still be set there if we so wish. Pity Matthews hasnt declared :(

    I think he is a stud (Joeckel) but Im not overly sold on Star as a #1 pick if Im being honest .

    For me Id like to see us trade down a few spots pick up Ogletree accumulate maybe a second rounder, and see how Peters goes next season


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭Red Crow


    Who is going to trade up. I think as much the Eagles can afford to move down the Jags and Raiders could as well. They have lots of needs and could use more picks.

    Why do people have KC taking Geno Smith at #1. That's madness. I don't think any QB is worth a first round pick in this class. More and more mocks have Smith at the top of the board.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.



    Why do people have KC taking Geno Smith at #1. That's madness. I don't think any QB is worth a first round pick in this class. More and more mocks have Smith at the top of the board.

    Plenty of people do but isnt that the insanity of NFL drafts. Personally I don't think any of the QBs in the draft are worthy first round picks. But I can see 3 maybe for of them getting drafted in the 1st round.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Who is going to trade up. I think as much the Eagles can afford to move down the Jags and Raiders could as well. They have lots of needs and could use more picks.

    Why do people have KC taking Geno Smith at #1. That's madness. I don't think any QB is worth a first round pick in this class. More and more mocks have Smith at the top of the board.

    I dont think anymody will trade up. Doesnt mean I cant wish for it though :)

    Kansas taking Smith would be a farce. They have to take Star or Joeckel IMO


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    No available QB is worth an overall no.1 pick this year.

    Take a Franchise Left Tackle and whoever ends up playing QB there will benefit for it.

    That didnt work too well for Miami in '08


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    davyjose wrote: »
    That didnt work too well for Miami in '08

    They went from 1st overall pick in the draft to an 11-5 season and the playoffs. Worked pretty well short-term, and would have worked long term had Chad Pennington not re-injured his shoulder. Picking Jake Long was the right thing to do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    Kansas need to get an Alex Smith or even a Matt Flynn or Michael Vick for next season, someone that has some modicum of upside. Ironically Tebow's option offense would be good fit for them and a fantastic boon for Charles, perhaps the most talented back in football. The offense that can't pass to save its life anyways so even those jeers don't carry much weight. It's doubtful they would be that brave, though.

    If they can't get someone in free agency they may end up being pushed into a QB pick.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    That's a great way for a new GM and head coach to endear themselves to fans who are sick of terrible Quarterbacks. Sign Tebow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    That's a great way for a new GM and head coach to endear themselves to fans who are sick of terrible Quarterbacks. Sign Tebow.

    Probably a better approach than Paranoid Pioli took, anyways. :o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.


    Syferus wrote: »
    Kansas need to get an Alex Smith or even a Matt Flynn or Michael Vick for next season, someone that has some modicum of upside. Ironically Tebow's option offense would be good fit for them and a fantastic boon for Charles, perhaps the most talented back in football. The offense that can't pass to save its life anyways so even those jeers don't carry much weight. It's doubtful they would be that brave, though.

    Brave? How about stupid. Charles needs a competent QB to balance out their offense and take the pressure off him. He doesn't need more running. Also tell me how an option offense would be a good fit for them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    TO. wrote: »
    Brave? How about stupid. Charles needs a competent QB to balance out their offense and take the pressure off him. He doesn't need more running. Also tell me how an option offense would be a good fit for them.

    Option offense has been proven to super-charge the RB on the teams that have utilised it. The last two #1 rushing teams in the NFL? Tebow and the Broncos, RG3 and the Redskins. Both division winners. The option made a post-30 Willis McGhee a serious threat and turned Alfred Morris into a star. I can only imagine what it'd do for a back whose talent isn't in question to begin with, indeed what Wilson and Lynch did in Seattle in the second half of the season was a good preview of what option/qb rushing threat offense is capable of. For a team that's seriously thinking about drafting Geno Smith #1 overall trying something different and building other areas of the team makes a lot of sense.

    You do realise Bowe is going to walk this off-season unless he's given a massive contract, right? I doubt the Chiefs want to double down on franchise tagging him as second time either. They have one of the poorest passing attacks in the league and it's likely to get worse before it gets better. Trying to focus on that when you have an elite running back is madness.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.


    Syferus wrote: »
    Option offense has been proven to super-charge the RB on the teams that have utilised it. The last two #1 rushing teams in the NFL? Tebow and the Broncos, RG3 and the Redskins. Both division winners. The option made a post-30 Willis McGhee a serious threat and turned Alfred Morris into a star. I can only imagine what it'd do for a back whose talent isn't in question to begin with, indeed what Wilson and Lynch did in Seattle in the second half of the season was a good preview of what option/qb rushing threat offense is capable of. For a team that's seriously thinking about drafting Geno Smith #1 overall trying something different and building other areas of the team makes a lot of sense.

    Firstly Seattle didn't use an Option playbook. Do you know what an Option offense is? Denver used the Zone Read Option last year and the Redskins used a hybrid Pistol Spread Option this year.

    Zone Read Option - Generally uses Zone blocking on the line of scrimmage and the QB reads off a certain defensive player to decide who keeps the ball. You do it right and have a back like McGahee of course he will get yards as it is designed as a run heavy offense. Only drawback if you can't find a good passer of the football it will blow up in your face i.e Broncos Pats in the playoffs last year when the Pats shut down the option.

    Pistol Spread Option - This is actually the QB in a half under centre and shotgun formation. By that I mean look at the distance RGIII is from the centre. Instead of being 7 yards back in shotgun he is between 3and 5 yards. The reason for this it helps the down hill running game while giving you options in the air also. Skins used both zone blocking and Big on big blocking. Using designed QB runs/rollouts and Play actions RG III had room to run. The key to this system was having a strong runner in the backfield and a QB that can actually throw a football which RGIII showed he can.

    As for Seattle they didn't use an Option playbook at all. They used the Zone read system but didn't use it to option anyone for the most part. There was designed option plays in their playbook but not many. A fair few QB keepers and draws and play actions that gave Wilson options to move if needs be. Add to the fact with the Zone block and Lynch it was an ideal system for Seattle. Oh and Wilson has a good pass.

    So if Kansas are to use any of the above the only one that would suit them would be the Denver one right now but they would fall down to the lack of a passing game. Right now their offensive line is not good enough to run the Pistol Spread Option or protect their QB and open holes like Seattles can.
    You do realise Bowe is going to walk this off-season unless he's given a massive contract, right? I doubt the Chiefs want to double down on franchise tagging him as second time either. They have one of the poorest passing attacks in the league and it's likely to get worse before it gets better. Trying to focus on that when you have an elite running back is madness.

    So you are saying just go 100% run and forget about passing the football. So what if Bowe leaves. Running the ball that much will ware down your runningback and when you have no passing game it will be awful football to watch and they will lose a lot. Also what happens if Tebow tries to pass the football if Kansas forget about trying to fix their WR issue if Bowe leaves?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Ronaldinho


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    No, their O Line was an absolute disaster this year.

    No argument, their OL is poor, but I'd have thought Albert is the best of the bunch. I'd say they'll need to keep him around and look to address the rest of the line later in the draft and through free agency.

    As has been said, none of the QBs are worth of the top overall pick. My gut feeling is that there'll be no QBs taken until the second half of the 1st round, when some teams will pull the trigger on moving up from the second.

    I have Kansas taking Lotulelei if they stay where they are. Tyson Jackson is slated to earn 14.7mio the season after next. Can't see them keeping him around even on a restructured contract. I'm sure they'd love to move down though. The likes of Warmack or Milliner would be nice pickups inside the top 10, or if they went back even further they could still get themselves one of the top receivers or ILBs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    Ronaldinho wrote: »
    As has been said, none of the QBs are worth of the top overall pick. My gut feeling is that there'll be no QBs taken until the second half of the 1st round, when some teams will pull the trigger on moving up from the 2nd.

    While you are probably correct on paper there is no way no QB's taken in the top half of the 1st. Geno Smith n Tyler Wilson will def go that high. If the Chiefs elect not to take a QB you still have Jets, Bills and Cards would def snap up either of those guys if they fell to them. (Possibly Jags n Raiders could be interested too)

    Joeckel is probably the most valuable player in the draft with Matthews n Lewan going back to school. Fisher n DJ Fluker would appear to be a big drop off from Joeckel.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    Mel Kiper has realeased his 1st mock draft. He has Luke Joeckel going 1st overall to chiefs.

    He also has no QB's going in the 1st (but reckons at least one will make their way up)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭Justin10


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    Mel Kiper has realeased his 1st mock draft. He has Luke Joeckel going 1st overall to chiefs.

    He also has no QB's going in the 1st (but reckons at least one will make their way up)
    I don't pay any attention to him, if your talking QBs listen to Gruden.

    Evaluation of plats then Mike Mayock is your guy.
    I find Kiper has got a lot wrong last couple of years. He gave Seahawks a D for their last draft. Gruden though was spot on with Wilson and if I remember correctly like Irvan and wagner too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    Gruden likes everyone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    Rochey18 wrote: »

    Evaluation of plats then Mike Mayock is your guy.
    .

    Love Mayock.


  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Karson Large Zenith


    Rochey18 wrote: »
    I don't pay any attention to him, if your talking QBs listen to Gruden.

    Evaluation of plats then Mike Mayock is your guy.
    I find Kiper has got a lot wrong last couple of years. He gave Seahawks a D for their last draft. Gruden though was spot on with Wilson and if I remember correctly like Irvan and wagner too.

    dude gruden says he likes everyone so to pick out players like that is silly. on top of that look at his qb draft history as a coach he won a sb with tony dungys team and they went to the dogs after a few of his drafts hes a great coach and seems like a genuinley good guy but not a great talent evaluater


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭Justin10


    Everyone likes every pick. Not going say on national tv that a player is awful but Gruden I find can point out weaknesses and strengths of a QB.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    Rochey18 wrote: »
    Everyone likes every pick. Not going say on national tv that a player is awful but Gruden I find can point out weaknesses and strengths of a QB.

    His QB camps are a good watch.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Wow. What a strange story. His BCS game was bad enough for his stock. Turns out Manti Teo girlfriend who died of leukaemia didn't actually exist.

    http://deadspin.com/5976517/manti-teos-dead-girlfriend-the-most-heartbreaking-and-inspirational-story-of-the-college-football-season-is-a-hoax?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow


    I see you guys have it in the college thread. So how far does he now drop?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Wow. What a strange story. His BCS game was bad enough for his stock. Turns out Manti Teo girlfriend who died of leukaemia didn't actually exist.

    http://deadspin.com/5976517/manti-teos-dead-girlfriend-the-most-heartbreaking-and-inspirational-story-of-the-college-football-season-is-a-hoax?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow


    I see you guys have it in the college thread. So how far does he now drop?

    He plummets. 2nd or 3rd rounder now IMO.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    davyjose wrote: »
    He plummets. 2nd or 3rd rounder now IMO.

    If he does some team is still going to get serious value and a player that's able to energise defense. I can see a lot of the teams in the lower reaches of the first round being tempted depending on what comes out tomorrow or someone throwing down a late round pick to move up and grab him in round 2 or 3. I'd bet teams like the 49ers, Steelers, Packers or Patriots would love to pick him up cheap and work him into their systems, teams that feel their culture is robust enough to take on any risk attached to Manti. The Eagles would probably be in dreamland if he fell to them with their second pick.

    It's not like killing a fake girlfriend is an offense likely to lead to recidivism :pac:


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