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Irish Rail 2012 Passenger Numbers fail

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  • 08-01-2013 2:52pm
    #1
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,692 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.newstalk.ie/reader/47.301.343/4702/0/

    All the moaning of reduced Dart trains has had no affect with 6% more using the service in the second half of the year. Second half of year proformed better. Note the online fares were interduced from June so that would of helped.
    Iarnród Éireann has reported a fall in passenger numbers in the past year.
    36.9 million journeys were made on Irish railways in 2012.
    That is down from 37.4 million back in 2011.
    While DART passenger numbers for the second half of last year saw an increase of 6% over the same annual period.
    Iarnród Éireann says it is aiming to boost the numbers this year with the promise of free Wi-Fi on all trains, more special offers on fares and shorter journey times on all InterCity routes.
    It says that although a weak first half of the year saw overall passenger numbers across all rail services for the full year reduce slightly from 37.4 million in 2011 to 36.9 million in 2012, the stronger second half bodes well for 2013 passenger growth.
    Strong second-half performance

    The group says it is encouraged by this strong performance in the second-half of last year.
    The firm says factors influencing the improved demand included:
    • Increased sales of Taxsaver monthly and annual tickets, which give tax relief of up to 52% on the cost of daily commuting
    • Major growth in student ticket sales on Intercity services, with college ID now accepted for discounted student fares, without the need for a separate card
    • Growth in online bookings at irishrail.ie, with all tickets discounted if booked three or more days in advance
    • Range of major events, particularly in the Dublin area
    The company will also open 2 new stations this year.
    One at Oranmore Parkway in Co. Galway, and in Hansfield in Co. Dublin on the Dunboyne commuter line.
    Spokesman from the company is Barry Kenny.
    He says a number of new incentives will be introduced to try to win over new passengers and a strong second half of last year bodes well for 2013.


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    #2
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Hmm, so passenger numbers drop once again. I love the spin!

    So DART is up, so we can assume intercity is down even more, there is a surprise!


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    #3
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    So much for the alleged thrashing that the tarmac trundlers were supposed to inflict. It seems that rail is holding its own despite the worst recession this state has ever seen !!! When I see an eight year old coach parked outside the Gresham in faded blue livery, it only confirms to me that the Enterprise is indeed a superior product, and how at least I will travel Intercity. Dart no surprises there and every tenth one powered by wind - 21st century stuff - right up there. :D


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    #4
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    steamengine wrote: »
    When I see an eight year old coach parked outside the Gresham in faded blue livery, it only confirms to me that the Enterprise is indeed a superior product, and how at least I will travel Intercity.

    Not sure what the age of the Aircoach coaches has to do with this thread. It doesn't help your theory though, seeing as the Enterprise trains are twice the age of the Aircoach vehicles. The Aircoach vehicles have more leg-room and leather seats, too. But lets not let facts get in a way of a good rant.

    There is a place for both services to be honest if you asked me, the problem with the train is it's not hourly and the walk up prices are not very attractive, especially from the Belfast end. Still I can see why for business travel, those who value a toilet and catering would prefer a train. But for those travel to the airport, more regular services, very early or late services and cheaper walk up fares a bus is a much better option.


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    #5
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,643 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I think you are correct devnull - there is room for both - competition never hurt anyone and I think all round we are seeing benefits from improved services.


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    #6
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    While that's broadly true, IE does receive massive subsidies.

    I wonder what the picture would be like if they didn't. I would think there would be very little rail other than commuter services.


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    #7
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,490 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    While DART passenger numbers for the second half of last year saw an increase of 6% over the same annual period.

    I don't understand this at all. In the seonds 6 months of the year we saw a 6% increase compared to what same 12 month period?? - how can a six month period be the same as a 12 month one??
    Why don't they give full year figures, are they trying to hide a drop in the first six months?

    I could easily say there were 10m journeys in 2011, 5m Half1 and 5m Half2
    then in 2012 there were only 4m in Half1 but 5.3m In Half2

    There's the 6% for H2 but the year overall is down 7%


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    #8
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I love all the spin and the attempted deflection in this PR piece and from some posters in this thread. Here re the facts:

    1) Passenger numbers are down from 2011

    2) Passenger numbers have fallen by a shocking 25% from the 2008 peak of 48 million.

    That is a 25% drop in just 4 years!!

    Note also the claim of an increase in 6% of the DART, could be hiding an even bigger fall in intercity numbers.

    Spin it all you want, it is a very worrying trend.


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    #9
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,692 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    BK remenber the new online fare structure interduced on 1 June wasn't there before.

    Before it was interduced I was paying 19.99 each way between Waterford and Dublin now its half that. They have higher peak fares and lower off peak so with a set fare booked 3 days in advance it will of made a differance in numbers which is why the second half of year was refered to.

    One thing that is quiet clear is there was way to much capacity on the Dart early in the year and cutting train sizes was the best decision made.

    Also student travel didn't start to increase until September this year so the second half of the year was much better for passengers than the first 5 or 6 months. With improved times and good online fares 2013 could be a good year.


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    #10
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    BK remenber the new online fare structure interduced on 1 June wasn't there before.

    On the other hand, remember that the new direct bus services to Cork, Limerick and Belfast only started around this time too.

    It is just as possible that numbers will continue to fall on intercity services in 2013 as more and more people become aware of and use these coach services.

    I'd really like to see the intercity, commuter and DART numbers broken out so that we could get a proper view of the situation.


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    #11
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,692 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    On the other hand, remember that the new direct bus services to Cork, Limerick and Belfast only started around this time too.

    It is just as possible that numbers will continue to fall on intercity services in 2013 as more and more people become aware of and use these coach services.

    I'd really like to see the intercity, commuter and DART numbers broken out so that we could get a proper view of the situation.

    Bus services may of started but didn't GoBe cut already which says something. There is room for an express buses and trains on most routes.

    I would say some intercity routes will see increases but others will see falls in 2013 and I would like to see a break down of the figures to.


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    #12
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Bus services may of started but didn't GoBe cut already which says something. There is room for an express buses and trains on most routes.

    That is more due to the fact that GoBE were beat to market by Aircoach by several months who saw off their rival pretty well.

    GoBE's plan seemed to be undercut Aircoach from day one, but it was deemed redundant following Aircoach cutting their prices and mass mailing their customers a couple of days later as has been discussed here several times.

    There was never going to be the market for 6 non express buses between Dublin and Cork and 32 express buses a day in each direction, it's now down to 27 and more sustainable although we'll see how long it lasts like this.

    I do agree there will always be a market for the train and the bus on all routes though, as I outlined in an earlier post.


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    #13
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    We are going off topic now, but anyway, GoBE is a strange one.

    It seems GoBus management have no bottle!

    The GoBE service is only new, in operation less then 4 months, it takes time to build up a following of regular customers. Each time I took GoBE it was busier then the last, so it certainly was heading in the right direction.

    But to then raise prices and cut back on service frequency, just before Christmas, the busiest time of year and a time when they might gain new, regular customers, seems like complete madness to me!

    And on top of that, they have done zero advertising and only one promotion. Even Aircoach did extensive radio and newspaper advertising of their service down in Cork eventually.

    I think the problem was they made a series of tactical mistakes. They launched their service 6 months after Aircoach, giving Aircoach plenty of time to build up a following of regular customers. I think GoBus did a deal with BE, thinking they would just stroll into the BE stations, with no advertising and just automatically take the existing BE customers. But the problem was most of the BE customers had already switched to Aircoach. So now they are left stuck in the BE stations, which in Dublin is a far less attractive location then the Aircoach stops and I assume paying BE for the right to operate out of their (a cost Aircoach don't have).

    They also stupidly launched the service where you could only buy tickets online, something that the Irish public just aren't use to and ready to do. They quickly reversed this one, allowing tickets to be sold from the TVM.

    But instead of trying to compete with Aircoach head to head, to advertise, etc. They seem to have decided to just cut back!!

    If I was them, I'd cut me ties with BE as quickly as possible and instead go head to head with Aircoach on the streets at the city center stops and be more aggressive. But then they are probably stuck in a contract with BE.

    I disagree slightly with devnull on one point, he says there isn't a market for 32 express buses in each direction per day. Well maybe not today, but I believe in time, if the market is developed correctly, then there is. After all there are 36 express buses (plus even more commuters) to Galway every day, so why not Cork?

    Time will tell.


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    #14
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    You only have to take the train to Cork to see the massive drop in numbers using the train!


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    #15
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    bk wrote: »
    On the other hand, remember that the new direct bus services to Cork, Limerick and Belfast only started around this time too.

    It is just as possible that numbers will continue to fall on intercity services in 2013 as more and more people become aware of and use these coach services.

    I'd really like to see the intercity, commuter and DART numbers broken out so that we could get a proper view of the situation.
    We will never see this information!


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    #16
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    how anyone can say IE are holding their own is beyond me.

    They lost half a million InterCity passengers. What they did hold I imagine was all the non-paying passengers, which makes the situation even grimmer. If these make up, say, 50% of journeys them the half million drop is thrown into sharp relief.

    How can this trend be reversed? Something needs doing before Intercity is a thing of the past!


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    #17
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    corktina wrote: »
    how anyone can say IE are holding their own is beyond me.

    They lost half a million InterCity passengers. What they did hold I imagine was all the non-paying passengers, which makes the situation even grimmer. If these make up, say, 50% of journeys them the half million drop is thrown into sharp relief.

    How can this trend be reversed? Something needs doing before Intercity is a thing of the past!

    Did you read the OP's post ? Two new stations are being opened and DART up 6% - not bad for for an economy where half a million people are unemployed and emigration is running at over 1000 weekly. That's the upside - just to balance things a tad !!! So yes, relatively speaking Irish Rail are holding their own.


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    #18
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    steamengine wrote: »
    Did you read the OP's post ? Two new stations are being opened and DART up 6% - not bad for for an economy where half a million people are unemployed and emigration is running at over 1000 weekly. That's the upside - just to balance things a tad !!! So yes, relatively speaking Irish Rail are holding their own.

    a true optimist, to you the glass is always half full!


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    #19
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,490 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    how about we stick to Irish rail and leave the VRT to another thread / forum?

    are there fuller figures available anywhere yet, the IE site doesn't seem to have any?


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    #20
    freyners
    Registered Users Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭freyners


    Id say one of the very few things propping up those numbers was the student deal. Interestingly its expiring on the 20th. From what everyone I've talked has said that if the fares return to normal it will be back on the bus (myself included) so if its not extended there could be another sharp drop in numbers


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    #21
    LeftBlank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭LeftBlank


    freyners wrote: »
    Id say one of the very few things propping up those numbers was the student deal. Interestingly its expiring on the 20th. From what everyone I've talked has said that if the fares return to normal it will be back on the bus (myself included) so if its not extended there could be another sharp drop in numbers

    The new timetable starts on the 20th which is why the offer is marked to end on that day. I would say it would be extended.


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    #22
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,643 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I can't see the offer not being extended - that would make no sense whatsoever.


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    #23
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    37.4 million journeys to 36.9 million, so a decline of 0.5million year-on-year. Or a decline of 1.355%.

    The way they have it phrased it looks like Dart was down for the year or the year-on-year increase was not very impressive at all.

    It would be great if we had transparency.

    bk wrote: »
    2) Passenger numbers have fallen by a shocking 25% from the 2008 peak of 48 million.

    That is a 25% drop in just 4 years!!

    23%, it seems, but 23 or 25 does not seem all that shocking over the last four years given all that has happened and the developments in other modes.

    In the same time we have went from an unemployment rate of about 5% to one close to 15%? A drop in GDP from $263.6 to around $218b?

    Are we also looking at a slowed rate of decline?

    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    how about we stick to Irish rail and leave the VRT to another thread / forum?

    Done.

    Mod voice: Posts on road costs vs tax take split and new thread created, here.


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    #24
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,162 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Get the numbers right first

    45.5 million was the highest ever annual passenger number not 48 million

    I'd love to see Dublin Bus stats for same period....


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