Obesity benefits cut for refusal to exercise

Froyo · 03-01-2013 10:07pm

Rainbow_Bright wrote: »

Counselling may help but not all overweight individuals are simply "fat and lazy". It may be bacause of an illness which affects mobility e.g. back issues or perhaps weight gain due to thyroid issues or even depression.

Some empathy & consideration on your behalf would go a long way.

Obviously I was talking about the lazy ones hence, the 'counselling' part for those that need it.

If their problem is physical, I'd fail to see how being obese would be an issue here.

Didn't think I'd needed to spell it out!

BrokenArrows · 03-01-2013 10:13pm

Froyo wrote: »

Obviously I was talking about the lazy ones hence, the 'counselling' part for those that need it.

If their problem is physical, I'd fail to see how being obese would be an issue here.

Didn't think I'd needed to spell it out!

I agree that reduced mobility shouldnt be an issue.
All it requires is reduced intake of calories and some attempt at physical activity.

But that's easier said than done for someone who is seriously restricted in mobility and in that case the problem may be more mental as they may have in a way given up.

03-01-2013 10:15pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Any definition of healthy is a balanced diet but if someone has a medical condition it would be on a professional to decide what's best for that individual person.

What does that even mean? It's jargon.

How about this for 'healthy'?

Breakfast.
Bowl of Special K with low fat milk
Low Fat spread on 2 slices of toast
Glass of Orange Juice

Lunch
Chicken, Bacon and Lettuce on Wholemeal bread with low fat mayonaisse
bottle of Cranberry Juice

Dinner
Mashed Potatoes, carrots and Gammon
Glass of Water

Snacks
Bag of Tayto LFC crisps
2 bananas
2 chocolate covered rice cakes

The fact of the matter is that most people haven't a clue what they're supposed to eat and why they're supposed to eat it. You're trained to eat what you were trained to eat and how you were trained to eat as a child. Obese parents will feed obese kids etc etc.

Teach people how they should eat, what they should eat, when they should eat and how much they should eat and let them make their own decisions on it. I imagine you'll find the knock on effects huge!

3ndahalfof6 · 03-01-2013 10:17pm

Funds rerouted for onesies.

Xcellor · 03-01-2013 10:18pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBMS2rr8pPw

RainyDay · 03-01-2013 10:20pm

Here's a mad idea - let's have public policies that actually work. Not public policies that we'd like to work, or would give us some sense of vengeance, or that rely on adults to act sensibly and logically - let's find policies that actually work in practice.

Has this policy actually worked in the UK or elsewhere?

3ndahalfof6 · 03-01-2013 10:23pm

RainyDay wrote: »

Here's a mad idea - let's have public policies that actually work. Not public policies that we'd like to work, or would give us some sense of vengeance, or that rely on adults to act sensibly and logically - let's find policies that actually work in practice.

Has this policy actually worked in the UK or elsewhere?

Utopia, is beside Atlantis.

BrokenArrows · 03-01-2013 10:25pm

emmet02 wrote: »

What does that even mean? It's jargon.

How about this for 'healthy'?

Breakfast.
Bowl of Special K with low fat milk
Low Fat spread on 2 slices of toast
Glass of Orange Juice

Lunch
Chicken, Bacon and Lettuce on Wholemeal bread with low fat mayonaisse
bottle of Cranberry Juice

Dinner
Mashed Potatoes, carrots and Gammon
Glass of Water

Snacks
Bag of Tayto LFC crisps
2 bananas
2 chocolate covered rice cakes

The fact of the matter is that most people haven't a clue what they're supposed to eat and why they're supposed to eat it. You're trained to eat what you were trained to eat and how you were trained to eat as a child. Obese parents will feed obese kids etc etc.

Teach people how to eat, what to eat, when to eat and how much to eat and you'll find the knock on effects huge!

That could be considered fine for some people and not for others.

I agree that people will continue to eat what they were brought up eating but this argument is not about teaching kids its about dealing with the current obese adults.

melekalikimaka · 03-01-2013 10:27pm

i hope this works out, not justification being overweight in this day and age without a serious medical issue as a cause.

03-01-2013 10:27pm

RainyDay wrote: »

Here's a mad idea - let's have public policies that actually work. Not public policies that we'd like to work, or would give us some sense of vengeance, or that rely on adults to act sensibly and logically - let's find policies that actually work in practice.

Has this policy actually worked in the UK or elsewhere?

Kinda hard to invent one that'll work without it being tried somewhere.

03-01-2013 10:28pm

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i hope this works out, not justification being overweight in this day and age without a serious medical issue as a cause.

What about "because I feel like it"?

melekalikimaka · 03-01-2013 10:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What about "because I feel like it"?

stupidity is worse than being a fatty

03-01-2013 10:32pm

melekalikimaka wrote: »

stupidity is worse than being a fatty

Well at least between us we have both bases covered.

03-01-2013 10:33pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

That could be considered fine for some people and not for others.

I agree that people will continue to eat what they were brought up eating but this argument is not about teaching kids its about dealing with the current obese adults.

That is an incredibly unbalanced diet fwiw.
Almost entirely carbohydrate dependent and sugar rife.

I wouldn't recommend anyone ever eat like that.
Less than 50grams of protein, less than 20g of fats - no essential fatty acids to speak of.

A reliance on carbohydrate promotes a reduction in the satiety feeling in the brain. The leptin response lowers and people feel hungry sooner.

The constant reliance on carbohydrate and the sugary attacks of foods promote insulin spikes, increasing the pancreas' 'work' and builds an insulin resistance which can be linked with early onset diabetes and also again with increased hunger.

However, that's considered a 'healthy' and 'balanced' diet by almost all! This is exactly my point. The lack of information, and more scarily the presence of misinformation about nutrition in the western world is incredible!

scwazrh · 03-01-2013 10:36pm

If they cut benefits for fat people they should stop healthcare for smokers , no more nhs covering pregnancy , no free medical for anyone who ends up in hospital for something there caused themselves such as car crashes due to speeding.Lets not forget helping people who maybe tried to commit suicide but failed , it was there choice so don't be using nhs money paying for any hospital services they need.
The list of personal choices that we each make that costs the state money is endless

Fromthetrees · 03-01-2013 10:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What does that even mean? It's jargon.

How about this for 'healthy'?

Breakfast.
Bowl of Special K with low fat milk
Low Fat spread on 2 slices of toast
Glass of Orange Juice

Lunch
Chicken, Bacon and Lettuce on Wholemeal bread with low fat mayonaisse
bottle of Cranberry Juice

Dinner
Mashed Potatoes, carrots and Gammon
Glass of Water

Snacks
Bag of Tayto LFC crisps
2 bananas
2 chocolate covered rice cakes

The fact of the matter is that most people haven't a clue what they're supposed to eat and why they're supposed to eat it. You're trained to eat what you were trained to eat and how you were trained to eat as a child. Obese parents will feed obese kids etc etc.

Teach people how they should eat, what they should eat, when they should eat and how much they should eat and let them make their own decisions on it. I imagine you'll find the knock on effects huge!

That's not actually a terrible diet for someone to have, with a little bit of reading it would be quite healthy.
Too much bread, too much meat, not enough veg and no need for a pack of tayto everyday and as general guideline of what to eat it's actually a grand point to be at.

03-01-2013 10:38pm

Fromthetrees wrote: »

That's not actually a terrible diet for someone to have, with a little bit of reading it would be quite healthy.
Too much bread, too much meat, not enough veg and no need for a pack of tayto everyday and as general guideline of what to eat it's actually a grand point to be at.

It's a horrendous diet.

Over 100g of sugar per day in there - and too much meat!? What?

Hilly Bill · 03-01-2013 10:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Benefit payments mean an awful lot of things.

Ye, of course it does. Its called the dole.

Fromthetrees · 03-01-2013 11:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a horrendous diet.

Over 100g of sugar per day in there.

But it's a good starting point for a diet in the context of a thread about people that are morbidly obese. Here.

I'll be realistic.

Breakfast.
Bowl of Special K porridge with low fat milk
Low Fat spread on 2 slices of toast Any healthy bread.
Glass of Orange Juice water

Lunch
Chicken, Bacon Turkey and Lettuce on Wholemeal bread with low fat mayonaisse. (add tomato and cucumber)
bottle of Cranberry Juice

Dinner
Mashed Potatoes, carrots and Gammon and 2 more veg with grilled chicken breast.
Glass of Water. (x2)

Snacks
Bag of Tayto LFC crisps
21 banana and a pear
2 chocolate covered rice cakes

A little bit of tweeking and we're getting towards a very good diet now. Add nuts and seeds and beans and you're onto a winner.

03-01-2013 11:05pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Ye, of course it does. Its called the dole.

What's your point? For one thing "benefits" doesn't just refer to the dole, it refers to incapacity benefits, long-term sick benefits, child benefits, rent allowances etc. etc.
If the only benefit they're talking about is the dole then what does obesity have to do with anything? If they're so obese that it's preventing them from seeking work then by rule it won't be the dole they're on.

Hilly Bill · 03-01-2013 11:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What does that even mean? It's jargon.

How about this for 'healthy'?

Breakfast.
Bowl of Special K with low fat milk
Low Fat spread on 2 slices of toast
Glass of Orange Juice

Lunch
Chicken, Bacon and Lettuce on Wholemeal bread with low fat mayonaisse
bottle of Cranberry Juice

Dinner
Mashed Potatoes, carrots and Gammon
Glass of Water

Snacks
Bag of Tayto LFC crisps
2 bananas
2 chocolate covered rice cakes

The fact of the matter is that most people haven't a clue what they're supposed to eat and why they're supposed to eat it. You're trained to eat what you were trained to eat and how you were trained to eat as a child. Obese parents will feed obese kids etc etc.

Teach people how they should eat, what they should eat, when they should eat and how much they should eat and let them make their own decisions on it. I imagine you'll find the knock on effects huge!

Thats may look healthy but it wont help you lose the weight. Check out the salt content in special k and the so called low fat options. You would be better off with bacon and egg. Cut out the spuds, chocolate ,crisps and bread and beer and watch the weight fall off. Simples

.

03-01-2013 11:10pm

Fromthetrees wrote: »

But it's a good starting point for a diet in the context of a thread about people that are morbidly obese. Here.

I'll be realistic.

Breakfast.
Bowl of Special K porridge with low fat milk
Low Fat spread on 2 slices of toast Any healthy bread.
Glass of Orange Juice water

Lunch
Chicken, Bacon Turkey and Lettuce on Wholemeal bread with low fat mayonaisse. (add tomato and cucumber)
bottle of Cranberry Juice

Dinner
Mashed Potatoes, carrots and Gammon and 2 more veg with grilled chicken breast.
Glass of Water. (x2)

Snacks
Bag of Tayto LFC crisps
21 banana and a pear
2 chocolate covered rice cakes

A little bit of tweeking and we're getting towards a very good diet now. Add nuts and seeds and beans and you're onto a winner.

I assume you missed this post

Deleted User wrote: »

That is an incredibly unbalanced diet fwiw.
Almost entirely carbohydrate dependent and sugar rife.

I wouldn't recommend anyone ever eat like that.
Less than 50grams of protein, less than 20g of fats - no essential fatty acids to speak of.

A reliance on carbohydrate promotes a reduction in the satiety feeling in the brain. The leptin response lowers and people feel hungry sooner.

The constant reliance on carbohydrate and the sugary attacks of foods promote insulin spikes, increasing the pancreas' 'work' and builds an insulin resistance which can be linked with early onset diabetes and also again with increased hunger.

However, that's considered a 'healthy' and 'balanced' diet by almost all! This is exactly my point. The lack of information, and more scarily the presence of misinformation about nutrition in the western world is incredible!

An obese person needs protein and fat. Needs them. The diet above is a carbohydrate and sugar diet.

You have a low fat and low protein diet with high carbohydrate and believe that is a good starting point for an obese person's calorie deficit? Excepting their mental wellbeing which includes their satiety and also their predication for contracting of diabetes.

Again, the worst part is that the absolute majority of people would believe that the above diet is 'probably a good place to start', when in fact it (if a calorie deficit is observed) will promote moodiness, tiredness, exhaustion, peaks and troughs (sugar levels), hunger pangs, a lack of satiety, an increase in the 'hunger feeling' and increased craving for 'junky' foods.

Hilly Bill · 03-01-2013 11:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What's your point? For one thing "benefits" doesn't just refer to the dole, it refers to incapacity benefits, long-term sick benefits, child benefits, rent allowances etc. etc.
If the only benefit they're talking about is the dole then what does obesity have to do with anything? If they're so obese that it's preventing them from seeking work then by rule it won't be the dole they're on.

They wont stop their child benefit and their rent allowance just because they are obese now will they? Its really not that difficult to work out what they may loose.

03-01-2013 11:13pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thats may look healthy but it wont help you lose the weight. Check out the salt content in special k and the so called low fat options. You would be better off with bacon and egg. Cut out the spuds, chocolate ,crisps and bread and beer and watch the weight fall off. Simples .

I have a feeling I remember there being more sugar in Special K than Coco Pops but kelloggs.ie don't make it easy to check. They have several pages of waffle but the info is awkward to find so far for me.

EDIT: Heh, they have a page on "how to read a nutritional label" and one of the examples follows the American standard like talking about a half a cup as a measurement unit.

03-01-2013 11:15pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They wont stop their child benefit and their rent allowance just because they are obese now will they? Its really not that difficult to work out what they may loose.

Tell me. If they're too fat to find work then they shouldn't be on the dole by rule. It doesn't mention unemployment benefits in the article.
Also it's a local council putting it forward and I didn't think they controlled unemployment benefits.

melekalikimaka · 03-01-2013 11:16pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They wont stop their child benefit and their rent allowance just because they are obese now will they? Its really not that difficult to work out what they may loose.

they should have their kids taken from them,bad influences

:P

Hilly Bill · 03-01-2013 11:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a feeling I remember there being more sugar in Special K than Coco Pops but kelloggs.ie don't make it easy to check. They have several pages of waffle but the info is awkward to find so far for me.

Just have a look the next time that you are in a supermarket and compare the salt and suger contents of special k to the others .

Hilly Bill · 03-01-2013 11:19pm

melekalikimaka wrote: »

they should have their kids taken from them,bad influences

:P

It might stop them eating them

.

03-01-2013 11:20pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Just have a look the next time that you are in a supermarket and compare the salt and suger contents of special k to the others .

Would it confirm that I was recollecting correctly?

Hilly Bill · 03-01-2013 11:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Would it confirm that I was recollecting correctly?

Depends what you were collecting

. yes, maybe.

Obesity benefits cut for refusal to exercise

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