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Political Policing? PSNI soft on Loyalists

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    #92
    OCorcrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭OCorcrain


    junder wrote: »
    The IBA are just the tip of the ice berg, the PSNI has had to set up a special task force just to deal with the 'hood' problem. In west Belfast. The roads around divis are like a race track at night with joyriders

    Really, just in west Belfast, no such problems in east Belfast?


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    #93
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    OCorcrain wrote: »

    Really, just in west Belfast, no such problems in east Belfast?
    Actually yes, just the wild west. I drive these areas every night and poleglass, falls, twinbrook and White Rock are ****ing nuts. The west is the roughest side of the city by a long way. I know its not a popular opinion but I put this down to unwanted children, there are a lot of children born in the west simply to vote or because the pope told them condoms are sinful while protestant familys drum into their kids the importance of contraception, its not that the prods make better parents, the just thankfully have less children or the east would be just as bad as the wild west.


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    #94
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    gallag wrote: »
    Actually yes, just the wild west. I drive these areas every night and poleglass, falls, twinbrook and White Rock are ****ing nuts. The west is the roughest side of the city by a long way. I know its not a popular opinion but I put this down to unwanted children, there are a lot of children born in the west simply to vote or because the pope told them condoms are sinful while protestant familys drum into their kids the importance of contraception, its not that the prods make better parents, the just thankfully have less children or the east would be just as bad as the wild west.

    People have kids just to get more votes?


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    #95
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    OCorcrain wrote: »

    Really, just in west Belfast, no such problems in east Belfast?

    No where near as bad, west Belfast has always had a reputation of lawlessness, but these days it's got really bad, to the point that the hoods run the streets at night and have thier own community's living in fear. These hoods serve no political agenda it's thier own base needs they look after. For some reason joyriding is more preverlant in the republicans areas of west Belfast.


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    #96
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »

    People have kids just to get more votes?
    Partly, the man reason is religious, one community believes every sperm is sacred, the other teaches their children on the first day of high school about condoms etc, my mum bought me condoms on my sixteenth birthday. Again, I am not saying one side makes better parents, just that one side factually has more children so more chance of bad/overwhelmed parents.

    Also, I dont think many of you guys realise how bad parts of west Belfast are, look at some video's on youtube. Not so long ago the lower falls residents group had meetings with the psni to try and do somthing about it, sf were there also and seemed to be trying their best to help but the hard core Republicans protested outside because they do not want police in their area.


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    #97
    OCorcrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭OCorcrain


    gallag wrote: »
    Actually yes, just the wild west. I drive these areas every night and poleglass, falls, twinbrook and White Rock are ****ing nuts. The west is the roughest side of the city by a long way. I know its not a popular opinion but I put this down to unwanted children, there are a lot of children born in the west simply to vote or because the pope told them condoms are sinful while protestant familys drum into their kids the importance of contraception, its not that the prods make better parents, the just thankfully have less children or the east would be just as bad as the wild west.
    junder wrote: »
    No where near as bad, west Belfast has always had a reputation of lawlessness, but these days it's got really bad, to the point that the hoods run the streets at night and have thier own community's living in fear. These hoods serve no political agenda it's thier own base needs they look after. For some reason joyriding is more preverlant in the republicans areas of west Belfast.

    Do you have reliable sources and statistics to prove this correlation?


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    #98
    Madam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    gallag wrote: »
    Partly, the man reason is religious, one community believes every sperm is sacred, the other teaches their children on the first day of high school about condoms etc, my mum bought me condoms on my sixteenth birthday. Again, I am not saying one side makes better parents, just that one side factually has more children so more chance of bad/overwhelmed parents.

    Also, I dont think many of you guys realise how bad parts of west Belfast are, look at some video's on youtube. Not so long ago the lower falls residents group had meetings with the psni to try and do somthing about it, sf were there also and seemed to be trying their best to help but the hard core Republicans protested outside because they do not want police in their area.

    Are you still living in the 1950s and sixties? Thats not a Belfast people I recognise, well not in the modern era! By your reckoning people with more that two children are bad parents, I wonder how mine coped with 5:rolleyes:


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    #99
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    West Belfast is cracked like. But then again so are many other parts of the city as well as parts of Dublin, Limerick and Cork. The problem lies with deprivation in an urban enviornment more than anything else. Bar the obessions with quad-bikes and horses you'll find similar enviornments in English cities and elsewhere.


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    #100
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Take five minutes and google west belfast joyriders, people dont appreciate how bad it is, broad daylight, crashing into the police, it is far worse than dublin or any other uk city.


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    #101
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    OCorcrain wrote: »



    Do you have reliable sources and statistics to prove this correlation?
    Google it, unless people in east belfast dont know how to record their antics. Or you could believe me as a belfast taxi driver, people going west have a hard time getting a taxi and quite often lie saying Dunmurry instead of poleglass. It really is that rough.


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    #102
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Madam wrote: »

    Are you still living in the 1950s and sixties? Thats not a Belfast people I recognise, well not in the modern era! By your reckoning people with more that two children are bad parents, I wonder how mine coped with 5:rolleyes:
    What? Catholics fertility rate is higher than protestants even today, not many Catholic mothers will buy their children condoms. its just facts. Catholics generaly have stronger morals and faith, most make fantastic familys but simple statistics mean more children = higher chance of bad parents or just more hoods.

    Have you googled west belfast joyriders yet? Can you offer any other reason why west belfast is living in fear of gangs of youths?

    I dont want to offend people here but should we pretent there was not a "breed them out" culture in n.i? Or that catholics dont like contraception and make a lot of babys? Or that these factors combined helped make west belfast the most lawless part of any city in the uk/ireland?


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    #103
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Mask is slipping Gallag, some pretty nasty sectarian stuff coming out of you there


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    #104
    Madam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    He's wrong though - I happen to like contraception but then I'm not from Belfast:) I wonder if he knows of the many protestants who had 8, 9, 10 and even 13 of a family(my grannparents)?


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    #105
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    gallag wrote: »

    I dont want to offend people here but should we pretent there was not a "breed them out" culture in n.i? Or that catholics dont like contraception and make a lot of babys? Or that these factors combined helped make west belfast the most lawless part of any city in the uk/ireland?

    I heard that they use their front doors for firewood and keep coal in the bath. Also their childrens are all black-faced little urchins.

    Honest to God lad you're some craic. Yes there is a high-crime rate in some Nationalist areas, the same as there is in other poor parts of the country. It has f*ck all to do with religion.


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    #106
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    GRMA wrote: »
    Mask is slipping Gallag, some pretty nasty sectarian stuff coming out of you there
    What? What did I say was wrong? West belfast is plagued by gangs of youths, I hypothesised this is because of bad parenting, it does not happen anywhere else in belfast, I believe the problem stems from children being born about 15 years ago for voting/religious reasons. I know it is simplistic, and not a particularly nice theory but it does seem logical? I am happy to hear other theory's but lets not put our head in the sand.


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    #107
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Madam wrote: »
    He's wrong though - I happen to like contraception but then I'm not from Belfast:) I wonder if he knows of the many protestants who had 8, 9, 10 and even 13 of a family(my grannparents)?
    Of course there is not a set rule but generally catholics have more children and there was a vote them out culture up north. Feel free to show me wrong.


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    #108
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    gallag wrote: »
    What? What did I say was wrong? West belfast is plagued by gangs of youths, I hypothesised this is because of bad parenting, it does not happen anywhere else in belfast, I believe the problem stems from children being born about 15 years ago for voting/religious reasons. I know it is simplistic, and not a particularly nice theory but it does seem logical? I am happy to hear other theory's but lets not put our head in the sand.

    If you think people are having kids to out vote the DUP then you're off your rocker lad. End of story really.


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    #109
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    FTA69 wrote: »

    I heard that they use their front doors for firewood and keep coal in the bath. Also their childrens are all black-faced little urchins.

    Honest to God lad you're some craic. Yes there is a high-crime rate in some Nationalist areas, the same as there is in other poor parts of the country. It has f*ck all to do with religion.
    Nonsense! I am not soom fool that thinks theprotestant community had some sort of superiority over catholics, or that catholics are in any way inferior, it is just simple fact that the breed them out culture that existed then combined with the catholic churches position on making babys has got to be at least partly responsible for gangs of teenagers out on the streets making life hell for west belfast people.


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    #110
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    FTA69 wrote: »

    If you think people are having kids to out vote the DUP then you're off your rocker lad. End of story really.
    Seriously? I thought it was common knowledge that this did happen?? Of course not every family would have that attitude but it did happen.


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    #111
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    gallag wrote: »
    Nonsense! I am not soom fool that thinks theprotestant community had some sort of superiority over catholics, or that catholics are in any way inferior, it is just simple fact that the breed them out culture that existed then combined with the catholic churches position on making babys has got to be at least partly responsible for gangs of teenagers out on the streets making life hell for west belfast people.

    There's gangs of young people running around every city in Ireland and further afield. There's plenty of hoods and car thieves and drug addicts in Loyalist areas too. I remember the UDA nailed one to a fence not too long ago.


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    #112
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    FTA69 wrote: »

    There's gangs of young people running around every city in Ireland and further afield. There's plenty of hoods and car thieves and drug addicts in Loyalist areas too. I remember the UDA nailed one to a fence not too long ago.
    But the problem is no where near as bad as west belfast, even sf called it lawless, it really is that bad, did you google the videos? Do you wonder why there are no east blfast joyrider gang videos?


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    #113
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    FTA69 wrote: »

    There's gangs of young people running around every city in Ireland and further afield. There's plenty of hoods and car thieves and drug addicts in Loyalist areas too. I remember the UDA nailed one to a fence not too long ago.
    The guy rhe uda nailed to the fence was a Catholic joyrider from west belfast. The ira broke his ankels a few months before that.


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    #114
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/nov/10/northernireland


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    #115
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Whatever, they battered plenty of Protestant criminals as well over the years. West Belfast is probably a sh*thole because 1) like other Irish cities, it was neglected and has a huge problem of poverty. 2) Due to the conflict it has no tradition of policing outside of what the IRA provided, which was crude and haphazard, and now that's gone entirely.

    It has nothing to do with people "breeding out Prods", that's just a figment of your bigoted imagination.


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    #116
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    FTA69 wrote: »

    There's gangs of young people running around every city in Ireland and further afield. There's plenty of hoods and car thieves and drug addicts in Loyalist areas too. I remember the UDA nailed one to a fence not too long ago.
    And where was the joyriders from? Republican west belfast, and while the politicans did thier condemnation bit for the media, his own community where Actully pretty happy at the punishment handed out to him, due in no part to him being a notorious and long term hood / joyrider and no I'm not condoning what happened to him, just showing just how fed up people are with the crimnal justice system that fails to deal with these hoods.


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    #117
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Gallag, Catholic parents from disadvantaged areas care as much about what the Pope says as Protestants from similar areas do - if they listened to the RCC at all there'd be no separations and wee'uns born outside marriage.

    If we were to strip away the symbols and loyalties and concentrate on observing behaviour alone the two tribes have a lot more in common than they'd care to admit.


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    #118
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Loyalist areas have thier Anti social problems to, however so far the hoods ( and i an leaving paramiltarys out of that deffnition) are yet to take such a hold. I do remember asking somebody from a republican area why joyriding seemed more common in republican areas. He believed it was because back in the day the provies used to get young hoods to nick cars so they could be used to plant bombs on, after a while the young hoods started having a bit of a muck about with the cars they had stolen, before handing them on, soon they stopped handing them on full stop and just nicked them for thier own pleasure. Yes this is purely anecdotal however there is an old film ' you me and marly' which gives a good ( although the film is abut old now) insight to joyriders


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    #119
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    junder wrote: »
    Loyalist areas have thier Anti social problems to, however so far the hoods ( and i an leaving paramiltarys out of that deffnition) are yet to take such a hold. I do remember asking somebody from a republican area why joyriding seemed more common in republican areas. He believed it was because back in the day the provies used to get young hoods to nick cars so they could be used to plant bombs on, after a while the young hoods started having a bit of a muck about with the cars they had stolen, before handing them on, soon they stopped handing them on full stop and just nicked them for thier own pleasure. Yes this is purely anecdotal however there is an old film ' you me and marly' which gives a good ( although the film is abut old now) insight to joyriders

    And who robbed the cars for the loyalists?


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    #120
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »

    And who robbed the cars for the loyalists?

    Do you have a better explanation as to why joyriding is more prevalent in republican areas


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    #121
    Dubhlinner
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Dubhlinner


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    And who robbed the cars for the loyalists?

    I don't think they'd have nearly as big a turnover of cars as provos did. Though why you have use the whataboutery approach here is beyond me

    It sounds like a decent enough potential explanation or at least factor to me. When a culture of joyriding starts among youths in an area its like trying to put out a bushfire for years because everyone has an older brother or cousin who did it.

    THere could even be environmental factors to it. West belfast roads may just be more suitable to joyriders eg harder to police. from a quick glance at a map looks that way anyway


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