Haye Vs Ali

sxt · 29-12-2012 2:31am #1

How would you see this fight going?

A pretty even contest with Haye possibly knicking it with his greater movement and harder punching..

MonkstownHoop · 29-12-2012 2:32am

jesus

Havermeyer · 29-12-2012 2:33am

:eek:

Seriously?

Pudsy33 · 29-12-2012 2:43am

Obvious troll is obvious

sxt · 29-12-2012 2:44am

Pretty serious .Haye is alot more heavy hitting than Ali and has better movement and is less easy to tag

joepenguin · 29-12-2012 5:13am

Are we talking early 2013 or later in the year?

cowzerp · 29-12-2012 2:09pm

Haye isn't heavier hitting than Ali, similar I would say-Ali's faster and has a better chin and better footwork

Ali would win this match up but not as easy as people commenting would like to believe.

Chavways · 29-12-2012 2:13pm

Well isnt Ali in a wheelchair so it'd be pretty one sided I think.:pac:

Profiler · 29-12-2012 2:17pm

Ali wins it 110 times out of 100. Haye's Achilles's toe would get in the way again.

walshb · 29-12-2012 2:26pm

sxt wrote: »

How would you see this fight going?

A pretty even contest with Haye possibly knicking it with his greater movement and harder punching..

Is this a joke?

Both on their best night I cannot see 30 punches a rd Haye making this close. He could make it awkward for Ali, but he won't come all that close to winning.

You seem obsessed with this view that the modern men are so superior than the men form years gone by. Haye wouldn't have beaten many heavies form the 70s. He just hadn't got the stamina needed to hang with some of them. Take Jerry Quarry as one. He would break Haye mid rds. Shavers would KO Haye. Frazier would demolish, Foreman would demolish, Norton would be too good.

cowzerp · 29-12-2012 2:52pm

Haye isn't a super heavy like some now so doesn't have that advantage, really he's just a blown up cruiser who is scared to get hit!

Most the 70's men named where proper heavies and would beat Haye who in reality is not 1 of the top men in heavyweight boxing.

walshb · 29-12-2012 3:49pm

Even still, Paul, Haye was 190-200 lbs at his lightest. Guys like Quarry and Norton and Frazier weren't that much bigger, (not taller anyway) if at all. Quarry would be smaller. Haye is skilled, slick, and can punch, but against real talented heavies who come to fight he will be found out. He isn't busy enough or fit enough to beat the names I mentioned. If Haye cannot KO them he will not beat them on points.

sxt · 29-12-2012 10:10pm

Frazier was 5 11 and blind in one eye , if a 5 11 semi blind fighter ever becomes heavyweight champ again I will eat my guitar. Of course Fraizer was a phenomeon and will never be the likes again but Fraizer against Haye is again 50/50. One of them is going to get knocked out in spectacular fashion

nocoverart · 29-12-2012 10:15pm

sxt wrote: »

How would you see this fight going?

A pretty even contest with Haye possibly knicking it with his greater movement and harder punching..

Surely you mean as they are now? pretty close I reckon

sxt · 29-12-2012 11:09pm

Haye is a small man in todays boxing. Back in the 70's he would have been considered massive . 6 3 , 220 ilbs of pure muscle, with the speed of a middleweight. The guys that were 220 ilbs back then were alot chubbier . His strength and conditioning would be light years ahead of the main men from the 70's. Look how flabby and out of shape Al looked and was in the 7o's. Lennox lewis said that Haye could have been the "Ali of this generation", in terms of creating a name for himself, and he could have been if hadn't of been for those pesky K Bros

The legend and myth generated by the american media over the fighters from the 70's is out of this world .IF frazier was from poland, and Foreman from Iceland, and Ali was from Scotland and they were fighting in tiny venues,instread of 100,000 stadiums and billions of viewers, they would never have been talked about in the same light. Haye would have been a good match up for any guy back then

walshb · 29-12-2012 11:57pm

Leaving the Klits out of it what exactly has Haye done?

He would be a normal sized heavy in the 70s. I don't dispute that. But, his talent wouldn't cut it. What strength and conditioning advantage has Haye displayed vs. the likes of Norton and Frazier and Foreman and Ali and others from the 70s? 30 punches a rd and fearing a tear up?

BTW, Ali could have been from Mars and he still would have been a global icon.

sxt · 30-12-2012 12:57am

walshb wrote: »

Leaving the Klits out of it what exactly has Haye done?

He would be a normal sized heavy in the 70s. I don't dispute that. But, his talent wouldn't cut it. What strength and conditioning advantage has Haye displayed vs. the likes of Norton and Frazier and Foreman and Ali and others from the 70s? 30 punches a rd and fearing a tear up?

BTW, Ali could have been from Mars and he still would have been a global icon.

Hes done as much as he can winning cruiserweight and heavy weight title, he was never going to beat Vladamir

I don't think Haye would be as timid fighting guys that are smaller than him. He is more evenly matched against the guys from the 70's. If you are fighting athletic guys that are 6 foot 7 with 250 ilbs , thats a different story

Ali in 1971 was 215 ilbs vs Fraizer , he conditioning is clearly not great , he is completely flat on his feet after 1 round

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyezmRI-7cE

walshb · 30-12-2012 12:58pm

sxt wrote: »

Ali in 1971 was 215 ilbs vs Fraizer , he conditioning is clearly not great , he is completely flat on his feet after 1 round

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyezmRI-7cE

Take any 4-5 rds in that fight and Ali was busier and fitter than a 12 rd Haye. Not sure what Ali's feet have to do with his conditioning. Did you not see what went on in that 1971 fight? Show me any Haye fight where he sustained any real level of intensity?

Littlehorny · 30-12-2012 1:22pm

Sports science, nutrition and understanding of everything sports related has gone to whole new level in the last 20 years, you only have to look at the massive increase in size of rugby players in the last 30 years to see this. If Haye was plying his trade in the 70s he would not be ripped like he is now, he would look like all the other heavies of similar size from the time. If Ali was only 30 years old today he probably would be carrying about 10lbs of extra muscle and looking more ripped than the physiques of the 70s.
Hate comparing fighters from different eras because too many factors to be considered. But my two pence worth on the thread is anyone who thinks Haye stands a chance against the greatest heavyweight champ of all time is doting.
Haye fights at a slow pace and has serious stamina issues, average chin and is not tough enough, where Ali is prob the most complete heavy ever to enter the ring.
To summarise if Ali was fighting today he would be even better and if Haye was around in the 70s he would have been eaten up and spat out by anyone of the top ten heavys from the 70s.

Scanlas The 2nd · 30-12-2012 4:12pm

I think Haye would probably win, he is ripped and packed with muscle, compare that to Ali's body with not much muscle and a higher body fat percentage.

walshb · 30-12-2012 4:55pm

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I think Haye would probably win, he is ripped and packed with muscle, compare that to Ali's body with not much muscle and a higher body fat percentage.

I'm assuming that is tongue in cheek.

cowzerp · 30-12-2012 6:35pm

It's worth mentioning Haye has to try to be heavy, the boxers mentioned where real heavies and just trained to be fit-plus Haye has no pedigree at heavy, Ali would have finished valuev off of they fought.

sxt · 30-12-2012 6:52pm

A speedster with skills and athlethic agility and heart and self belief and a serious pop in his fists could do well in the 70's .

He could have ran circles around Foreman, frustrated him, and evaded his best shots for 12 rounds. It is not beyond the imagination to see this happening.A feather fisted Jimmy Young did a number on Foreman. Or Foreman could have got his opportunity and smashed haye to pieces. either /or

He could have badly ko'd Fraizer and vice versa.

Im not for a second saying that Haye is better than than those guys, he's not. But he has got some boxing ability

Theres only one other heavyweight from that era that could move like this

Halloween Jack · 30-12-2012 6:54pm

Comparing the two is an insult to Ali. Haye's gutless acceptance of a wide defeat by wlad, and settling for remaining unscathed was shameful. Particularly given his baiting of the bros at every opportunity. Ali wound up Frazier no end, but when the bell went he was more than willing to trade with him.

Ali had the one thing all great champions need and the thing David haye will never have.... Heart.

walshb · 30-12-2012 7:41pm

sxt wrote: »

A speedster with skills and athlethic agility and heart and self belief and a serious pop in his fists could do well in the 70's .

He could have ran circles around Foreman, frustrated him, and evaded his best shots for 12 rounds. It is not beyond the imagination to see this happening.A feather fisted Jimmy Young did a number on Foreman. Or Foreman could have got his opportunity and smashed haye to pieces. either /or

He could have badly ko'd Fraizer and vice versa.

Im not for a second saying that Haye is better than than those guys, he's not. But he has got some boxing ability

Theres only one other heavyweight from that era that could move like this

When you post a clip of Haye's best bits with the worst excuse for a HW champion ever, Ruiz, then it is clear that desperation is setting in. And, that is a past it Ruiz. Deplorable.

Ok, Haye has speed, good power and is no dummy. I get that. He could well pose problems for many 70s HWs, but I don't see Foreman and Frazier having any real issues getting him out of there withing 4-5 rds. Ali may need longer, but no way is Haye beating him. He loses a clear decision to Ali.

Mick990 · 30-12-2012 8:30pm

Ah lads this thread has to be started by a troll but seen as i've nothing else to be doing I'll throw in my bit. Ali would destroy Haye. Most of the 70s heavyweights would.

I feel it all comes down to courage, if you look at how Haye fought against Wlad never took a risk then went onto blame his toe at the end it was just a disgrace . Now if you look at the other side at how Ali still fought on against Ken Norton with a broken jaw , or the beating he took against Foreman in Zaire to set up the amazing victory or even the courage shown by both fighters in the Thrilla in Manilla . Haye would never last in that era . Imagine Frazier caught him with one of those awesome hooks ?? He would no way get back up . Imagine even he tried to punk out Sonny Liston ?? What excuses would he be coming up with then ?

I know its a little off topic but the fight i would love to have seen would have been Ali Vs Teofilo Stevenson

Littlehorny · 30-12-2012 10:46pm

Would love to know why anyone would have any confidence in Haye beating a good heavyweight never mind a great heavyweight. Just looked up his resume and he has only fought 6 times at heavy, here is his list.
1 Monte Barret- 37 yr old never was been, poor fighter.
2. Valuez- 7ft tall freak show, slow as a wet week with fup all power, 46 year old Holyfield was robbed of a decision against this moving staue.
3. John Ruiz- 38 yr old slow heavy with minimum power, lost to super middle champ Roy Jones when he was 31, was very slow even in his prime.
4.Harrison- please!!!
5. Klitchko- his chance to walk the walk and he bottled it, if he couldnt lay a glove on Wlad, what chance against Ali?
6. Chisora- not in his best shape but even at that another poor heavy.
Where is this faith in Haye coming from?

walshb · 31-12-2012 1:57pm

Mick990 wrote: »

?

I know its a little off topic but the fight i would love to have seen would have been Ali Vs Teofilo Stevenson

Over 3 rds or more Ali wins. Teo basically boxed as a pro over 3 rds. No headgear a lot of the time and 3x3 mins. He would cause problems but Ali at his best beats him.

sxt · 31-12-2012 2:34pm

Littlehorny wrote: »

Would love to know why anyone would have any confidence in Haye beating a good heavyweight never mind a great heavyweight. Just looked up his resume and he has only fought 6 times at heavy, here is his list.
1 Monte Barret- 37 yr old never was been, poor fighter.
2. Valuez- 7ft tall freak show, slow as a wet week with fup all power, 46 year old Holyfield was robbed of a decision against this moving staue.
3. John Ruiz- 38 yr old slow heavy with minimum power, lost to super middle champ Roy Jones when he was 31, was very slow even in his prime.
4.Harrison- please!!!
5. Klitchko- his chance to walk the walk and he bottled it, if he couldnt lay a glove on Wlad, what chance against Ali?
6. Chisora- not in his best shape but even at that another poor heavy.
Where is this faith in Haye coming from?

He has got the skills and the speed and power to be troublesome. He did all he could do in the heavyweight division. He has an impressive Cruiserweight career.. which I think would have made him a heavyweight back in the 70's ..

walshb · 31-12-2012 2:45pm

sxt wrote: »

He has got the skills and the speed and power to be troublesome. He did all he could do in the heavyweight division. He has an impressive Cruiserweight career.. which I think would have made him a heavyweight back in the 70's ..

Yes, he was big enough. Most definitely. But look at his style. I don't see him being fit enough or tough enough to withstand the kind of pace and attacks that some of ther 70s men bring. I also don't see enough skills to decision them. Imagine him vs. Quarry. So, he connects and Quarry is still there, which is very likely. Quarry took a helluva shot. Quarry had far more stamina and variety and overall toughness. He could bang enough to really hurt Haye. I cannot see Haye lasting 12 rds vs. a Quarry, let alone a Foreman or Frazier. Haye could beat a Jimmy Young. He won't beat the elite 70s heavies. No way! Shavers wasn't elite, and Shavers I would back to KO Haye!

sxt · 31-12-2012 2:58pm

Mick990 wrote: »

Imagine even he tried to punk out Sonny Liston ?? What excuses would he be coming up with then ?

I know its a little off topic but the fight i would love to have seen would have been Ali Vs Teofilo Stevenson

He wouldn't be coming up with any excuse against Sonny Liston because he would beat Sonny Liston. Haye might have been scared of Foreman, but not Liston!

The Myth of Liston is just that ,myth of epic proportions. Sure he could look good beating up blown up middleweights. The Myth was debunked when he fought Eddie Machen , a 196 ilbs guy( who used only his left hand for the entire fight)and was still able to bully , knock him back yards with punches , wrestle him across the length of the ring repeatedly , hit him at will etc .Look how slow Liston is!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5YbsN73eOk

Haye Vs Ali

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