A good guy with a gun?

Snickers Man · 23-12-2012 12:40PM #1

According to the American National Rifle Association's vice president Wayne La Pierre: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

Simple statement. Let's consider a real-world situation.

In February 2012, a teenager called Trayvon Martin was shot dead in Florida by a man called George Zimmerman.

Martin had been staying for a week in a small gated community with his father and his father's partner. He had been on the way back to the house from the local candy store and was engaged in a phone call with his own girlfriend when he was spotted by Zimmerman.

Martin was not walking in any firm direction despite the fact that it was raining. He appeared to be looking around at the local houses. This is behaviour entirely consistent with somebody engrossed in a phone call, but Zimmerman, passing by in his car, concluded Martin was a burglar "casing" the local houses and so, as neighbourhood watch co-ordinator, he called the police.

In the course of the conversation Martin, having spotted Zimmerman's car slowing down and Zimmerman clearly scrutinising him, ran away. Zimmerman left the car to chase him. The police despatcher told him not to.

Shortly afterwards a fight started between Martin and Zimmerman. Martin was getting the better of it when Zimmerman pulled out his gun and shot him dead.

A case against him is pending.

Question: Was George Zimmerman a good guy with a gun or a bad guy with a gun?

I would humbly suggest that if we don't get a unanimous answer to that question, Wayne La Pierre's logic falls flat on its face.

PS Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays

El Guapo! · 23-12-2012 12:44PM

How many threads do we need on American gun laws?

In answer to your question:
The Zimmerman guy shouldn't have tried to be a hero and chased the kid. He was an idiot.
But also, why did the kid run away if he was doing nothing wrong. Something doesn't add up.

py2006 · 23-12-2012 12:46PM

It's not the guns...its the video games again!! Don't ya know!

Strawberry Fields · 23-12-2012 12:46PM

Why is there two superfluous options in this thread?
Bad guy /

looksee · 23-12-2012 12:48PM

Because he was a young, black guy and an older, white guy in a uniform was watching him, then took off after him?

And the answer to the poll is, Zimmerman was an egotistic fool with a gun, which is way more dangerous than just being bad.

mike65 · 23-12-2012 12:51PM

An idiot with a gun should be an option.

Pottler · 23-12-2012 12:52PM

What was wrong here was Martin didn't have a gun. If he did, he would have stood there like a Boss and asked Zimmermann what his problem was, hence no chase, hence no fight, hence no-one getting shot. We need more guns, clearly. Am I doing this right?

My name is URL · 23-12-2012 12:55PM

Dean09 wrote: »

But also, why did the kid run away if he was doing nothing wrong. Something doesn't add up.

Because there was an unhinged nutjob following and then threatening to kill him?

Czarcasm · 23-12-2012 12:55PM

He was an idiot with a gun, even worse than "good" or "bad". The dispatcher told him not to give chase, he did. He tried to confront the guy physically and when he was on the losing end, took out his gun and shot him. Total over-reaction.

I know if I was innocently taking a phone call I'd be unnerved by some guy eyeballing me, I'd want to get out of there asap, and if the guy started running after me? Well it'd be natural for me to assume that he wanted the phone perhaps!

Sin City · 23-12-2012 12:57PM

Would Zimmerman have given chase if he didnt have a gun?

El Guapo! · 23-12-2012 12:58PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Because there was an unhinged nutjob following and then threatening to kill him?

But the OP doesn't mention Zimmerman threatened to kill him. It just said the kid seen the guy "scrutinising" him so he ran away.
Why run if someone is scrutinising you?
That doesn't make sense.

weldoninhio · 23-12-2012 12:59PM

Dean09 wrote: »

How many threads do we need on American gun laws?

In answer to your question:
The Zimmerman guy shouldn't have tried to be a hero and chased the kid. He was an idiot.
But also, why did the kid run away if he was doing nothing wrong. Something doesn't add up.

Lets say you are walking around your cousins area. Its a nice area, but your not used to it. Your on the phone to your girlfriend having a nice chat, just strolling, not particularly going anywhere. You notice a car drive past slowly a few times.

After a few minutes, the car stops ahead of you and a guy gets out with a gun and shouts at you. Do you a) say i'm doing nothing wrong or b) leg it because theres a guy with a guy that has been driving up and down looking at you??

I know i'd run.

My name is URL · 23-12-2012 01:00PM

Dean09 wrote: »

But the OP doesn't mention Zimmerman threatened to kill him. It just said the kids even the guy "scrutinising" him so he ran away.
Why run if someone is scrutinising you?
That doesn't make sense.

Why not run if someone is 'scrutinising' you? The guy wasn't a cop. I wouldn't feel comfortable if a car slowed way down while passing and the occupant started eying me up. Can anyone honestly say that they wouldn't run when in that position; regardless of having done nothing wrong?

Pottler · 23-12-2012 01:04PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Why not run if someone is 'scrutinising' you? The guy wasn't a cop. I wouldn't feel comfortable if a car slowed way down while passing and the occupant started eying me up. Can anyone honestly say that they wouldn't run when in that position; regardless of having done nothing wrong?

err, yes. I have a fine rear and am constantly hassled by Cougars on the prowl kerbcrawling me. Ok, I'm not, but why the hell would you run?? Wouldn't even cross my mind to run. I think we are drifting here anyway, I think we should discuss the best type of gun Martin should have had. Personally I think a Glock would have helped here. Or somthing else with a sexy gunny name.

Sertus · 23-12-2012 01:04PM

I answered a good guy with a gun. Many people who think of themselves as "Good guys" turn into half wit idiots with an over inflated ego when you give them a gun. Guns just breed more guns, in this half wit arms race.

Bruthal · 23-12-2012 01:05PM

Snickers Man wrote: »

Question: Was George Zimmerman a good guy with a gun or a bad guy with a gun?

Answer: He was an american with a gun

looksee · 23-12-2012 01:07PM

Dean09 wrote: »

But the OP doesn't mention Zimmerman threatened to kill him. It just said the kids even the guy "scrutinising" him so he ran away.
Why run if someone is scrutinising you?
That doesn't make sense.

I imagine if you were black it would make perfect sense.

Czarcasm · 23-12-2012 01:07PM

Dean09 wrote: »

But the OP doesn't mention Zimmerman threatened to kill him. It just said the kids even the guy "scrutinising" him so he ran away.
Why run if someone is scrutinising you?
That doesn't make sense.

You answered your own question there Dean. Damn straight I'd run anyway if I thought a guy was eyeballing me, I don't think it's paranoid to think the guy could bundle me into the car or maybe he was gay cruising or (I actually didn't know the victim was black in a predominantly white neighbourhood), if I was a black man in a predominantly white neighbourhood, and I had some white guy eyeballing me, you're damn right I'd be out of there sharpish!

El Guapo! · 23-12-2012 01:10PM

looksee wrote: »

I imagine if you were black it would make perfect sense.

What??

SEPT 23 1989 · 23-12-2012 01:11PM

The problem with this suggestion is that

you could have a good guy with a gun who is having a very bad day

RobbingBandit · 23-12-2012 01:12PM

Zimmerman was a fcuking hopped up nut job with a gun. I watched that press conference or at least most of it, of the video games he mentioned Call of Duty was not among them, Mortal Kombat was though, wtf has that to do with guns. Putting cops in schools with guns will not be the answer.

El Guapo! · 23-12-2012 01:12PM

Maybe he got scared and ran but if someone was looking at me from a car there's no way I'd just run.
It's different if the guy waved a gun or jumped out and ran after me, but that didn't happen. The kid ran first.
Now I'm in no way saying Zimmerman was right. He's an idiot and should be locked up.

GreeBo · 23-12-2012 01:16PM

if the dead guy had a gun all that would have happened was that someone dies earlier in the story.

El Guapo! · 23-12-2012 01:17PM

GreeBo wrote: »

if the dead guy had a gun all that would have happened was that someone dies earlier in the story.

And possibly some other innocent bystander caught in the crossfire.

GreeBo · 23-12-2012 01:18PM

Dean09 wrote: »

Maybe he got scared and ran but if someone was looking at me from a car there's no way I'd just run.
It's different if the guy waved a gun or jumped out and ran after me, but that didn't happen. The kid ran first.
Now I'm in no way saying Zimmerman was right. He's an idiot and should be locked up.

so now he is at fault for running?
do you blame rape on short skirts too?

Sunnyisland · 23-12-2012 01:18PM

Some information about case being discussed here

A police report from the night of the incident says that Zimmerman was “bleeding from the back of the nose and back of his head.”
Zimmerman, then a 28-year-old volunteer neighborhood watchman, was driving through his gated community when he encountered Martin, who was walking through the neighborhood to his father’s girlfriend’s house.
Zimmerman says that after the two argued verbally, Martin charged at him, knocked him down, hit his head repeatedly against a concrete sidewalk, and threatened to kill him. Zimmerman claims that he pulled out his gun and shot Martin to death in self defense.
Martin’s family, though, says Zimmerman attacked Martin, who had done nothing wrong.
The case spurred fervent national outcry when Zimmerman was initially freed with no charges against him under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which allows people to use deadly force if they believe their lives are in danger and they have exercised every other option to handle the situation.
Zimmerman was arrested five weeks later. His trial is set to begin in the summer of 2013.

You are on a very thin line when you arm your local neighbour hood watch type guys.

Bruthal · 23-12-2012 01:21PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The problem with this suggestion is that

you could have a good guy with a gun who is having a very bad day

Or a good guy who is a gung ho lunatic, v someone who is minding his own business

El Guapo! · 23-12-2012 01:24PM

GreeBo wrote: »

so now he is at fault for running?
do you blame rape on short skirts too?

Good job on taking my post and twisting it round to mean the opposite of what I was saying.

Sertus · 23-12-2012 01:26PM

realies wrote: »

You are on a very thin line when you arm your local neighbour hood watch type guys.

Exactly, yet another "good guy with a gun" type

Arawn · 23-12-2012 01:33PM

realies wrote: »

Some information about case being discussed here

A police report from the night of the incident says that Zimmerman was “bleeding from the back of the nose and back of his head.”
Zimmerman, then a 28-year-old volunteer neighborhood watchman, was driving through his gated community when he encountered Martin, who was walking through the neighborhood to his father’s girlfriend’s house.
Zimmerman says that after the two argued verbally, Martin charged at him, knocked him down, hit his head repeatedly against a concrete sidewalk, and threatened to kill him. Zimmerman claims that he pulled out his gun and shot Martin to death in self defense.
Martin’s family, though, says Zimmerman attacked Martin, who had done nothing wrong.
The case spurred fervent national outcry when Zimmerman was initially freed with no charges against him under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which allows people to use deadly force if they believe their lives are in danger and they have exercised every other option to handle the situation.
Zimmerman was arrested five weeks later. His trial is set to begin in the summer of 2013.

You are on a very thin line when you arm your local neighbour hood watch type guys.

Can just imagine it now, Mr zimmerman can you give us your account of the day in qyestion.

And mr Martin do you refute these claims?? I THOUGHT NOT INNOCENT OF ALL CHARGES.

If I had a lad case me out, then chase after me while I tried to leave the scene too ****ing right It'd end up getting physical, difference is in normal countries you take a hiding, in america you get shot

the purple tin · 23-12-2012 01:46PM

Gun or not, the man was stupid to get out of his car and approach/challenge the young guy.
The whole sorry situation could have been avoided if he just listened to the dispatch operator.

A good guy with a gun?

George Zimmerman was/is: 89 votes

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