Windows 8: Clean Install? Appreciate quick reply...

thedeadp0et · 18-12-2012 11:06AM #1

So, I'm considering popping out to buy Windows 8 today. Problem is, I'm currently running Ubuntu and dont own a previous copy of Windows, and from what I've been able to gather online, it seems that you need a previous edition in order to do an upgrade...so does this mean I wont be able make the purchase?

I've come across a walkthrough detailing how to do a clean install from a Windows Pro Upgrade Retail Disk, but I want to be absolutely certain this is possible before I go out and purchase the disk as obviously after I open it and having gone through the installation process only to realise it I cant clean/custom install, they'll hardly offer me a refund.

Has anyone come across the OEM or System Builder Retail Version in Ireland yet? One chap in PC World told me Mircrosoft likely wont be releasing a standalone version of Windows 8 at all, yet another in a shop in Blanchardstown Retail Park (I forget the name but I'll look them up shortly as thats who I'm going to call with the query) told me I can do a clean install directly from the upgrade disk despite not owning a previous version of Windows...

Fysh · 18-12-2012 11:54AM

On a purely technical basis you may be able to install, but on a licence basis you won't be covered, as the upgrade licence relates to your original licence. Any shopkeeper telling you that you can do this deserves a rap across the knuckles for encouraging violation of licence terms.

I've seen activation fail where an upgrade key was used on a system that had been clean-installed, so unless someone's verified the process for you I wouldn't go betting on Win8 installing as a clean install without problems.

As for OEM/System Builder media, I don't think there have been any details released so far, which doesn't bode well

mp22 · 18-12-2012 12:02PM

If you install from the upgrade disk,leave it in the drive,goto refresh windows and run it.Where the licence is concerned you must have a valid windows one before you can purchase the upgrade disk.When you input the upgrade licence the pc id stays with that licence. If you run CMD as admin "slmgr /dlv" no quotes this will report on your licence status.

thedeadp0et · 18-12-2012 12:33PM

Cheers for the swift reply folks.

@mp22: Could you elaborate upon what you mean by that please? Whats CMD and how do I run it as admin? And whats the meaning of slmgr /div? I dont understand, been so long since I've been anywhere near windows...thanks.

@Fysh: Do you mean to say that I'd be able to install the OS, but I wouldnt be able to activate it? Or that I'd be able to both install and activate, but it wouldnt be strictly legit?

Feckin microsoft, honestly...why on gods earth have they decided to discontinue full versions of their OS's...thats just crap.

I'll call them up now anyway and see what the suss is - if I can find my old copy of XP I'm sorted.

One other thing: I dont suppose any of you know how to format a partitioned drive into an ext4 format for installing the likes of windows7, XP etc do you? Apologies if this is in the wrong forum, mods.

Fysh · 18-12-2012 12:39PM

I've seen claims that you can do a clean install of Windows 8 using an upgrade code, but I haven't been able to test them - the only personal machine I've got with Win8 was an upgrade from Win7. I've done clean installs with Win8 at work, but we've got Enterprise media and both a KMS and a MAK for offline installs, so they won't behave comparably.

If the behaviour is roughly concurrent with previous versions of Windows, you would likely be able to do a clean install with an upgrade licence (the old double-install-then-activate trick). However, it is important to note that this would not constitute a validly-licenced Windows installation, and it is therefore possible that your activated status might be revoked in future.

I'm honestly not sure why MS aren't releasing retail media for Win 8 yet - I guess they want either upgrades for cheap on existing hardware or new machines designed around Windows 8 (which is already silly, since its availability on non-touch-screen systems immediately shoots holes in that theory). I'm guessing OEM/full retail media will be along soon but I've only seen it on the likes of eBay so far so I wouldn't trust it as far as I could crap it.

mp22 · 18-12-2012 12:40PM

google, clean install windows 8 from a upgrade disk

CMD when you have win 8 installed and activated, hold down the windows key and press X.

thedeadp0et · 18-12-2012 12:59PM

According to the comments in that link you (mp22) posted a few minutes ago, the mentioned method seems to have worked for everyone who tried...

So it boils down to taking the risk of shelling out the 60quid or not...worst comes to worst, I could always install a downloaded copy of windows 7 I have here (I just dont have the key) and then just upgrade that with the windows 8 upgrade disk. That'd work, shouldnt it?

However, in order to install windows 7 it tells me that I need to format my drive to ext4...can some one please tell me how I can do this?

mp22 · 18-12-2012 01:16PM

thedeadp0et wrote: »

According to the comments in that link you (mp22) posted a few minutes ago, the mentioned method seems to have worked for everyone who tried...

So it boils down to taking the risk of shelling out the 60quid or not...worst comes to worst, I could always install a downloaded copy of windows 7 I have here (I just dont have the key) and then just upgrade that with the windows 8 upgrade disk. That'd work, shouldnt it?

However, in order to install windows 7 it tells me that I need to format my drive to ext4...can some one please tell me how I can do this?

No windows 7 key no upgrade disk from microsoft.http://www.windowsupgradeoffer.com/en-US/Home/ProgramInfo

Fysh · 18-12-2012 01:27PM

You shouldn't need to format your drive to ext4, you'll need either an unformatted partition or an NTFS-formatted partition. You may have some interesting time trying to get it to cohabit on friendly terms with your Ubuntu installation, depending on your bootloader setup.

If you don't already have an available partition, you'll need to resize your existing partition. Generally I favour doing this with the OS offline via the bootable GParted disc, but you can install it via apt-get if you want to run it within your OS session.

(I'd suggest spending a little time getting a live disc ready and familiarising yourself with the steps required to fix your Ubuntu bootloader with the Live disc as a precaution prior to starting your Win8 install).

If you download a copy of Win7 to facilitate the upgrade process, you still won't have a valid licence if/when you then upgrade to Win8. It won't be legit in the sense that, in the vanishingly unlikely circumstance of being audited (or the less unlikely circumstance of MS tightening up activation rules) you would not be able to demonstrate your eligibility to use an Upgrade licence on this machine because you don't currently have a Windows licence, and upgrade licences are only valid when they explicitly replace an existing full (ie Retail or OEM) licence. Unfortunately, I can't find any info on whether Windows Home Server 2011 is an eligible starting point, which is the cheapest option I can think of if you wanted to buy a legit licence to upgrade with Windows 8.

thedeadp0et · 18-12-2012 02:15PM

I see what you mean. Well, apparently Windows 8 System Builders Edition is available via Ebay, which seems to be the new name they've put on OEM versions...so instead of chancing my arm and possibly wasting 60euros on a copy of windows's I could eventually get ****ed over with - may aswell just order it online and do it legitimately.

It'll mean I'll be stuck with ubuntu for a little longer than I'd banked on, but apparently if I order within the next 10hrs I'll recieve it on the 19th...which is tomorrow...so one day shipping. And its only 30quid extra, hardly a fortune. Cant for the life of me work out why they dont sell it in shops though...

Hopefully I'm eligable to buy it come to consider it - I recall reading somewhere that in the past (with XP and 7) that people who wanted SB Editions required proof that they were actually constructing a PC, ie showing relevent parts etc. Must have been more like 98 and 2k for a protocal that strange...

Fysh · 18-12-2012 02:29PM

thedeadp0et wrote: »

Hopefully I'm eligable to buy it come to consider it - I recall reading somewhere that in the past (with XP and 7) that people who wanted SB Editions required proof that they were actually constructing a PC, ie showing relevent parts etc. Must have been more like 98 and 2k for a protocal that strange...

For some reason I didn't think of them until just now, but it turns out that Misco have the OEM release of Windows 8 here. It's not particularly cheap but it's also half the price you'd normally pay for an OEM Pro release of Windows.

I've used Misco before for both personal and work-related purchases and consider them extremely reliable. I purchased an OEM copy of Windows Home Server from them last year for the HTPC I was putting together and didn't have to provide any proof that I was actually building the system, so I'd be surprised if this has changed with Win 8.

Capt'n Midnight · 18-12-2012 03:15PM

thedeadp0et wrote: »

Has anyone come across the OEM or System Builder Retail Version in Ireland yet? One chap in PC World told me Mircrosoft likely wont be releasing a standalone version of Windows 8 at all, yet another in a shop in Blanchardstown Retail Park (I forget the name but I'll look them up shortly as thats who I'm going to call with the query) told me I can do a clean install directly from the upgrade disk despite not owning a previous version of Windows...

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

I can't see them not releasing a standalone copy simply because they would get crucified under US / EU competition laws.

What's the legal position regarding telling someone to break a licensing agreement ?

What you can do is to buy a second hand transferrable license (hens teeth) and use that as the basis for an upgrade.

The huge price difference between the markup on OEM preinstalled software and buying a copy later on retail is clearly a disincentive to building your own entry-level or medium spec system unless you have specific hardware requirements.

Capt'n Midnight · 18-12-2012 03:22PM

Fysh wrote: »

You shouldn't need to format your drive to ext4, you'll need either an unformatted partition or an NTFS-formatted partition. You may have some interesting time trying to get it to cohabit on friendly terms with your Ubuntu installation, depending on your bootloader setup.
...
If you don't already have an available partition, you'll need to resize your existing partition. Generally I favour doing this with the OS offline via the bootable GParted disc, but you can install it via apt-get if you want to run it within your OS session.

offline partition tools are best unless it's only a data partition you are changing -NB make 110% sure you are resizing and not "resize and move" as it that option will take forever and boot will fail since partition is no longer where it was

windows 7 64 bit can use the driver here to see ext3 http://www.fs-driver.org/
BUT only if the inode size is 128 bit - more here http://www.fs-driver.org/faq.html

so either an NTFS partition or an ext2/3 partition with an inode size of 128 can be used to store data for both OS's

you won't be able to read the ubuntu install partition as they changed the default inode size during install (why ??) so to do that you'd have to setup a partition for linux , format it with an inode size of 128 and then do an install into it.

thedeadp0et · 18-12-2012 09:18PM

Thanks a lot again folks - I actually just found out about Misco.ie today and coincidentally enough I came back here to tell you about it. They have the OEM Copy there and I'm ordering it tomorrow with next day delivery.

Some of the above jargon is a tad over my head to be honest. Indeed I have my ubuntu installation here but I'm willing to dump that - theres nothing of use on it and I'm sick to the teeth of the unity UI. I've certainly heard of GParted all right.

Sorry if I'm asking you to repeat yourselves, but could you run through with me in basic terms exactly what I'll need to do to get this OEM Version up and running when it arrives? I'll be going for the Windows 8 OEM 32bit, by the way. Little point in forking out the extra cash for Pro for my needs to be fair. Like I said, I could give a rats about the ubuntu install - theres literally about four files on here I'll be slapping onto a USB and the rest can go into oblivion for all I care.

Fysh · 18-12-2012 10:23PM

The OEM version should be pretty much "insert DVD, power on system, boot from DVD and follow on-screen prompts" - certainly that's what I found with the Enterprise version. Should install pretty swiftly too.

You'll be asked to sleect an install location, at which point you should be able to format the disk or partition where you've currently got a Ubuntu install. Just delete until you see it as unpartitioned space, then select it and press Next, and the installer will sort out the rest.

Your serial number will be on your Certificate of Authenticity, which you should stick on the side of the box.

thedeadp0et · 21-12-2012 02:57PM

Thanks for the help. I receieved my OEM copy today, but it wont let me format the partition via the installation disk. Theres two partitions, System and Logical. System is 297GBs with Logical being 3GBs, and it wont let me install it on the System partition. I'm going to use GParted now in Ubuntu to see if I can resize and reformat via that method.

Fysh · 21-12-2012 03:23PM

thedeadp0et wrote: »

Thanks for the help. I receieved my OEM copy today, but it wont let me format the partition via the installation disk. Theres two partitions, System and Logical. System is 297GBs with Logical being 3GBs, and it wont let me install it on the System partition. I'm going to use GParted now in Ubuntu to see if I can resize and reformat via that method.

That sounds a bit strange, but in any case, GParted should get you sorted. You'll almost certainly need to run it from a CD though - you won't (or shouldn't) be able to format the partition on which the OS you're running is installed.

thedeadp0et · 21-12-2012 03:23PM

Ah ok, so I'll go ahead and burn it to a CD. I believe its on the linux live CD, will try that first.

Capt'n Midnight · 21-12-2012 05:10PM

if all else fails then delete/shrink an existing partition so it can see free space on the disk to install into

Windows 8: Clean Install? Appreciate quick reply...

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