Are Irish classical music audiences badly behaved?

I'm sorry, what? Is oppression a form of civility?
As if we'd hardly be capable on our own or god forbid as being a state of europe.

Their post could be seen as mere provocation, I should not have replied.

If we had a Mahler things might have been different...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_etiquette#Western_Classical_music

I remember a friend of mine giving a lunchtime piano recital once, and for some reason a schoolteacher brought along a gang of primary school kids, who applauded loudly during each one of the pieces of a large set he played. The poor guy was so unnerved, he found it really hard to concentrate.

SubBusted wrote: »

There's no real class system in Ireland. Too much riff raff going to these concerts.

I agree, only the wealthiest and better off folk in the country should be allowed attend these prestigious events

This is how heldentenor Jon Vickers once responded to a persistant cougher (with audio):
http://www.josephshore.com/shut_up_with_your_damn_coughing.htm

What really annoys me in the NCH is talking during the music. It happens during nearly every concert I go to. I usually sit in the main balcony and I noticed recently when I was given a ticket for a seat near the front of the stalls that the audience were much quieter: maybe their proximity to the orchestra put manners on them!

Texting, mobile phones ringing, noisy programme page turning, rooting in handbags... they're bad, but the talking is the worst!

I wonder what people think of this extract from one of Mozart's letters about his 31st symphony:

Mozart wrote:

Right in the middle of the First Allegro came a Passage I knew would please, and the entire audience was sent into raptures — there was a big applaudißement; — and as I knew, when I wrote the passage, what good effect it would make, I brought it once more at the end of the movement — and sure enough there they were: the shouts of Da capo. The Andante was well received as well, but the final Allegro pleased especially — because I had heard that here the final Allegros begin like the first Allegros, namely with all instruments playing and mostly unisono; therefore, I began the movement with just 2 violins playing softly for 8 bars — then suddenly comes a forte — but the audience had, because of the quiet beginning, shushed each other, as I expected they would, and then came the forte — well, hearing it and clapping was one and the same. I was so delighted, I went right after the Sinfonie to the Palais Royale — bought myself an ice cream, prayed a rosary as I had pledged — and went home.

(From Alex Ross's blog here).

dlouth15 wrote: »

I wonder what people think of this extract from one of Mozart's letters about his 31st symphony:

(From Alex Ross's blog here).

That's because the idea of any disturbance to the silence being poor etiquette didn't really come to be until much later.

During opera performances it was perfectly normal for people to come and go, essentially head out to the bar for a drink and a chat, and rush back in to hear their favourite aria.

mambo wrote: »

This is how heldentenor Jon Vickers once responded to a persistant cougher (with audio):
http://www.josephshore.com/shut_up_with_your_damn_coughing.htm

Shut Up With Your Damn Coughing



In a performance of Tristan und Isolde in Dallas, Jon Vickers, while playing the part of Tristan, felt it necessary to break his character and shout to the audience, “Shut up with your damn coughing,” like a headmaster scolding naughty little boys. It didn’t work. The audience kept on coughing.

Anyone who has ever attended an opera or virtually any classical music venue will testify to the fact that a suspicious outbreak of coughing occurs like magic as soon as the lights go down. If we take an audience of 3,000 and extract from them---forcibly if but we could—all the ones with viral illnesses, asthma, allergies, and smoker’s cough, we would be left with a sizable chunk of audience who would then---trust me—still cough just as regularly. They do not cough so much when they go to any sports event. No baseball game or hockey rink can match an opera audience cough for cough. Furthermore, it is fair to observe that the risk of coughing outbreak varies with the familiarity of the music. So what is really going on? And are performers justly annoyed by coughing attacks? I’ll answer the easy question first. Of course performers are justly annoyed. Now for the hard question.

The modern day opera cough seems to be the exact opposite of the Italian opera audience familiar with the art form. In some provincial opera houses in Italy, an opera takes on an atmosphere close to audience participation, complete with loud comments from the audience, and the proverbial tomato at the soprano. Italians invented opera. They love it and are very familiar with it as part of their culture. If your Dad were also the President, he would still be your Dad. His office wouldn’t keep you from giving him a hard time. You might even have more fun tackling him in a family football game. That’s the way the Italians treat opera, with great respect but with great familiarity. We call that “love.” But most North Americans don’t “love” opera or great classical music. Instead of evoking “love,” classical music evokes feelings of personal inadequacy, insecurity and fear of discovery. North Americans are afraid they will be “found out” and discovered to be stupid. It is an unnecessary fear for we are all ignorant of something! As soon as the music starts, people experience a challenge to their self-images. It is not comfortable. They don’t like the feeling. The need to cough comes through the reflexes from this psychological uncomfortability. Partly an attention getting device, it says, “I am still here and I am important even though this music makes me feel stupid and small.” That is why handing out cough drops to the audience before the show will not work, and also why Jon Vickers’ scolding did not stop even one cough during his “Dristan” and Isolde.

I stumbled on this curious effect during a performance I gave for a small college. I gave what I thought was a usual type voice recital for a college or university but what I received from the audience was anything but “usual.” As soon as I started to sing, students began throwing things at one another, whistling, cat-calling. It looked sort of like the food fight scene in Animal House! I valiantly went on and sang as though nothing were happening. When, mercifully, the concert was over, the music faculty met me back stage and offered words of congratulations along with these remarks: “I thought the students did very well today. Usually they are much worse than this! You see, most of these kids come from low-income families where there was no exposure to culture, so when they experience it they don’t know how to act.”

The problem with opera “as entertainment”—which is how Opera America has tried to buy the opera audience—is that opera is not at all entertaining to people who do not “love” it as the Italians do. If we wish to see opera survive into the next century we will have to kindly, gently and lovingly educate an audience. Telling them to “Shut up their damn coughing” will do no good. We all know how difficult the education process is from our experience in other areas. It is not easy and it is not quick. Perhaps we should make a start of it if we have any hopes of curing the coughs.

Randy Anders wrote: »

I agree, only the wealthiest and better off folk in the country should be allowed attend these prestigious events

Ticket prices go the highest for the lowest brow concerts here. That said, I don't think audiences are as rude as they are in Paris or Milan, booing etc. you just get a polite clap here. Best audiences I've seen are in the wigmore hall in London.

Problem here isn't rude audiences, it's the lack of audiences that is more of the problem. There is little effort to discount tickets for slow sellers so often halls ar less than half full.