as it happens... Live Commentary Thread

noodler · 05-12-2012 06:59PM

dreenman wrote: »

Houses selling? You must tell me where you live!

I live in a tiny estate with less than 50 houses.

According to the property price index there have been 3 sales on it in the last two years.

The sale prices of those transactions are (I have to imagine) going to be the basis for any row you have with revenue.

I am sure mitigating circumstances like more land, a higher energy rating, extra bathrooms, converted attic etc could all come into play.

coonecb1 · 05-12-2012 07:03PM

From Contstantin Gurdgiev's blog. Puts it into perspective.

All the misery and hardship inflicted on the poorest and can be avoided if our politicians showed any balls:

Budget 2013 Cuts & Tax hikes = €3.5 billion

VERSUS

IL&P (bust state-owned 'bank') bonds repayments January 2013 = €2.45 billion
Promo Note (IBRC - toxic loans dump) repayment March 2013 = €3.1 billion

Chips Lovell · 05-12-2012 07:05PM

shedweller wrote: »

Will all this extra PRSI mean the health service will work better? Or am i being spectacularly naieve?!!

How its spent, I don't know. But it does mean that those people with "unearned income" are getting that drawn into the PRSI net.

noodler · 05-12-2012 07:12PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

How its spent, I don't know. But it does mean that those people with "unearned income" are getting that drawn into the PRSI net.

Not until 2014 mind.

dreenman · 05-12-2012 07:13PM

seamus wrote: »

Relatively easy budget all round.

A couple earning €50k between them living in a home worth €199,999 or less, a car each and two kids will be out by around €20 a week, at most, taking everything into account.

For a couple on €50k, €20 a week is an adjustment that can be made without having to live in rags.

The biggest impact on most people is the removal of the PRSI floor, which is harsh but necessary. It'll bring in a shedload of money and creates a more equitable tax base.

Smug reaction - They may not have to live in rags but that €1000 means that is less 1000 spent by families on Irish products & services so economy shrinks threatening jobs maybe yours maybe theirs - maybe someone else.

And if their house is worth 199,000 it means it was worth 400,000 + a few years ago - if they bought at the top of the market the extra 1000 may mean arrears, loss of house and still massive debt.

Doesnt make sense to take money out of the economy.

noodler · 05-12-2012 07:16PM

dreenman wrote: »

Smug reaction - They may not have to live in rags but that €1000 means that is less 1000 spent by families on Irish products & services so economy shrinks threatening jobs maybe yours maybe theirs - maybe someone else.

And if their house is worth 199,000 it means it was worth 400,000 + a few years ago - if they bought at the top of the market the extra 1000 may mean arrears, loss of house and still massive debt.

Doesnt make sense to take money out of the economy.

Childish reaction on the otherhand.

Does it make sense to keep borrowing every year to fund hings we can't afford? (Even if we could find someone willing to do that on a long-term basis).

Kristopherus · 05-12-2012 07:16PM

shedweller wrote: »

Will all this extra PRSI mean the health service will work better? Or am i being spectacularly naieve?!!

PRSI usually goes to Dept of Social & Family Affairs.

Nody · 05-12-2012 07:17PM

dreenman wrote: »

Smug reaction - They may not have to live in rags but that €1000 means that is less 1000 spent by families on Irish products & services so economy shrinks threatening jobs maybe yours maybe theirs - maybe someone else.

And if their house is worth 199,000 it means it was worth 400,000 + a few years ago - if they bought at the top of the market the extra 1000 may mean arrears, loss of house and still massive debt.

Doesnt make sense to take money out of the economy.

No what does not make sense is to borrow over 10 Billion a year to have the budget come out as +/- 0 which is what's being done now.

coonecb1 · 05-12-2012 07:27PM

noodler wrote: »

Childish reaction on the otherhand.

Does it make sense to keep borrowing every year to fund hings we can't afford? (Even if we could find someone willing to do that on a long-term basis).

What things can't we afford?

We can afford what we want to afford.

The politicians know where their priorities are, which is cutting services and increasing taxes on the citizens in order to pay back corporate debt on behalf of bankrupt banks.

amacca · 05-12-2012 07:32PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

How its spent, I don't know. But it does mean that those people with "unearned income" are getting that drawn into the PRSI net.

I'm glad you put that unearned in inverted commas

i would be of the opinion that I earned my wages (which were taxed at the time) and I earned the interest received on my savings which is comprised of aportion of my earned wages.......an interest which is also taxed via DIRT....interest which it now appears is going to be taxed again via PRSI

does that sound about right......will this PRSI on savings interest be deducted at source like DIRT do you think?

OMD · 05-12-2012 07:47PM

coonecb1 wrote:

The politicians know where their priorities are, which is cutting services and increasing taxes on the citizens in order to pay back corporate debt on behalf of bankrupt banks.

After all the years and all the commentary do you really still believe cuts & tax rises are to repay bank debt?

djpbarry · 05-12-2012 07:48PM

coonecb1 wrote: »

The politicians know where their priorities are, which is cutting services and increasing taxes on the citizens in order to pay back corporate debt on behalf of bankrupt banks.

No, some services need to be cut because tax revenue is insufficient to pay for them. Some tax increases are necessary to cover the cost of the remaining services.

djpbarry · 05-12-2012 07:48PM

OMD wrote: »

After all the years and all the commentary do you really still believe cuts & tax rises are to repay bank debt?

I really doubt (s)he's the only one.

dreenman · 05-12-2012 07:49PM

noodler wrote: »

Childish reaction on the otherhand.

Does it make sense to keep borrowing every year to fund hings we can't afford? (Even if we could find someone willing to do that on a long-term basis).

We're paying back bondholders - we cant afford that.

The underwriting of the bondholders should be written off - When the bank guarantee was done the banks lied about the scale of the problem. The nation was duped into underwriting debts which we have no chance of paying back - in the meantime the real economy will remain in depression for a decade as more money is taken out of it!

murphaph · 05-12-2012 07:53PM

Riskymove wrote: »

a SIMI view that people will be quicker to buy cars in second six months of the year and spread sales over the year rather than just early in each year

We'd be far better off introducing the German (and other places) system of having NO REFERENCE to the year of registration on number plates. SIMI are irrelevant to the Irish economy.

We don't make cars in Ireland. We only benefit from the taxation on them. We should not encourage people to (borrow and) export tens of thousands to car manufacturing nations. We should encourage people to hold onto their cars longer and spend or invest their money in the domestic economy.

Cookie_Monster · 05-12-2012 09:27PM

once again a pathetic budget that does nothing but kick the can even further down the road. No hard decisions made, no real cuts in expenditure, same old same old :rolleyes:

coonecb1 · 05-12-2012 09:54PM

OMD wrote: »

After all the years and all the commentary do you really still believe cuts & tax rises are to repay bank debt?

Government pays back billions upon billions in bank debt.

Government goes broke in the process.

Government can't borrow any more, gets bailout.

Government adheres to terms of bailout.

Government cuts services and increase taxes.

To answer your question, yes, I do still believe cuts & tax rises are to repay bank debt.

kennyb3 · 05-12-2012 10:04PM

seamus wrote: »

Relatively easy budget all round.

A couple earning €50k between them living in a home worth €199,999 or less, a car each and two kids will be out by around €20 a week, at most, taking everything into account.

For a couple on €50k, €20 a week is an adjustment that can be made without having to live in rags.

The biggest impact on most people is the removal of the PRSI floor, which is harsh but necessary. It'll bring in a shedload of money and creates a more equitable tax base.

You've essentially ignored the bombshell - you;ve assumed they've had the kids.

But all young families wanting to have kids are going to be hammered by maternity being taxed and hit with the USC.

That was the big landmine.

It looks very gender unbalanced

K-9 · 05-12-2012 10:06PM

shedweller wrote: »

Will all this extra PRSI mean the health service will work better? Or am i being spectacularly naieve?!!

No, it'll go to fund stuff like pensions and Jobseekers benefit which are grossly underfunded.

The PRSI system is a joke in this country, compare it to NIC in the North to get a feell of how we expect a first world welfare and pension system with a tiny contribution.

We do have the USC which is a substantial payment, seems to go into a black hole somewhere.

everdead.ie · 05-12-2012 10:34PM

K-9 wrote: »

No, it'll go to fund stuff like pensions and Jobseekers benefit which are grossly underfunded.

The PRSI system is a joke in this country, compare it to NIC in the North to get a feell of how we expect a first world welfare and pension system with a tiny contribution.

We do have the USC which is a substantial payment, seems to go into a black hole somewhere.

Where does the USC go it's a bloody big chunck of wages.

I think FG have done a decent job in fairness we are slowly coming around, I think they probably needed something more symbolic than just removing the unvouched expenses system.

I think given all the news about ballyroe they could of announced a change to the future licencing agreements giving the state a 20% stake in any find larger than 100 mboe and gotten a lot of brownie points for it.

JohnMc1 · 05-12-2012 10:45PM

A hundred Gardai stations to close throughout the Country? Yeah that will work out well for us. Nothing can possibly go wrong. :rolleyes:

RandolphEsq · 05-12-2012 11:06PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

A hundred Gardai stations to close throughout the Country? Yeah that will work out well for us. Nothing can possibly go wrong. :rolleyes:

Well some were only open 3 hours a day. Woopdeedoo

muffler · 05-12-2012 11:13PM

My highlight of the day was seeing Pearse Doherty quote Kenny and Gilmore when they previously said that any form of household charge would be a disgrace and an outrage etc etc.

And Kenny the twat just sat with a smirk on his face despite being exposed in public as being a hypocrite

Mr.Micro · 05-12-2012 11:16PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

A hundred Gardai stations to close throughout the Country? Yeah that will work out well for us. Nothing can possibly go wrong. :rolleyes:

Will anybody notice? Most of the stations are never open when they are supposed to be anyway. Gardai need restructuring in the future and tell them what their job is.

OMD · 05-12-2012 11:20PM

coonecb1 wrote: »

Government pays back billions upon billions in bank debt.

Government goes broke in the process.

Government can't borrow any more, gets bailout.

Government adheres to terms of bailout.

Government cuts services and increase taxes.

To answer your question, yes, I do still believe cuts & tax rises are to repay bank debt.

You have to stop at your first point though. Government is not paying back bank debt.

snails_pace · 05-12-2012 11:22PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

A hundred Gardai stations to close throughout the Country? Yeah that will work out well for us. Nothing can possibly go wrong. :rolleyes:

doubt it will make any difference , if you have a serious problem , its not some dogbox station from a one horse town which the squad arrive from , closing down small stations will merely mean the guards travel seven miles to reach you as opposed to three or four

K-9 · 05-12-2012 11:39PM

everdead.ie wrote: »

Where does the USC go it's a bloody big chunck of wages.

I think FG have done a decent job in fairness we are slowly coming around, I think they probably needed something more symbolic than just removing the unvouched expenses system.

I think given all the news about ballyroe they could of announced a change to the future licencing agreements giving the state a 20% stake in any find larger than 100 mboe and gotten a lot of brownie points for it.

USC is classed as a tax, goes into some black hole somewhere. Should have went into the PRSI system, which some bright spark had the notion to reduce, in a time of unprecedented Unemployment and pension claimants. Billions more claimed from the system than expected and we cut payments in.

muffler wrote: »

My highlight of the day was seeing Pearse Doherty quote Kenny and Gilmore when they previously said that any form of household charge would be a disgrace and an outrage etc etc.

And Kenny the twat just sat with a smirk on his face despite being exposed in public as being a hypocrite

Pearse will get his day smirking at the opposition spokesperson, of that there is no doubt.

JohnMc1 · 05-12-2012 11:39PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Will anybody notice? Most of the stations are never open when they are supposed to be anyway. Gardai need restructuring in the future and tell them what their job is.

True. I only see a Gardai around here when there's a match day at Nowlan Park.

OMD · 05-12-2012 11:54PM

K-9 wrote: »

Pearse will get his day smirking at the opposition spokesperson, of that there is no doubt.

He can do it now. FF are the opposition.

seamus · 06-12-2012 12:02AM

kennyb3 wrote: »

You've essentially ignored the bombshell - you;ve assumed they've had the kids.

But all young families wanting to have kids are going to be hammered by maternity being taxed and hit with the USC.

It shouldn't make that much of a difference. If the woman doesn't have her MB topped up, then she'll probably fall below the taxable threshold and pay no tax on it. If she does have it topped up, then her take home remains the same (at present her take home increases).

You don't miss what you never had, and MB is effectively that - a short-term incidental payment, not an ongoing payment which has been cut.

as it happens... Live Commentary Thread

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