Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

Santi101 · 02-12-2012 10:25PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Giroud is a good player who is not getting the support he needs.

1. He will score with his head if given proper supply.
2. He can hold the ball up.
3. He can win the ball in the air and knock it on to a runner or back to a player following up.

The problem is that we have no support player near him and he is left on his own. Nobody to knock the ball down to and players not getting forward quick enough for the knock-backs. He needs someone playing closer to him and we are not playing to his strengths.

He looks average to me, technically weak, not good enough with his back to goal, very slow.Giroud is a starter for Arsenal, no surprise we are languishing where we are. And his competition is Gervinho. Laughable!...:eek:

The idea about switching formations seems like a good one in theory but we dont have the midfield to play 4-4-2. We are getting overran in there with 3 men.

tayto lover · 02-12-2012 10:29PM

Santi101 wrote: »

He looks average to me, technically weak, not good enough with his back to goal, very slow.Giroud is a starter for Arsenal, no surprise we are languishing where we are. And his competition is Gervinho. Laughable!...:eek:

The idea about switching formations seems like a good one in theory but we dont have the midfield to play 4-4-2. We are getting overran in there with 3 men.

When players stay close to him he is good. Look at the way he set up Jack last week. He is the best we've had in the air for some time. He just needs to be used properly. Proper crosses and he'll show his heading ability too like he did against Reading when he came on. He is simply not getting the supply.

Santi101 · 02-12-2012 10:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Forget the keeper for a moment. At RB we have Sagna who has twice made the PL team of the season. At LB we have Gibbs who might split opinion somewhat but he's spent the last couple of years making fewer mistakes than Clichy used to make and suddenly when Clichy left he was one of the best players in the league. Our best CB pairing is Koscielny and Mertesackers. Again, on paper they're fine. Our defending in the final third is generally quite good. There's been times this season I've said we've defended poorly while others say we haven't. Defending doesn't start when play goes near the penalty area, it's when the ball is given away in midfield or when one of our wingers leaves a full-back exposed or when we're reminded that Arteta is pretty much being played out of position.
The actual players making up our back 4 is one of the few things I'm happy with but Wenger has gone and made Vermaelen captain which looks another silly decision.

Sagna is very good, the standard of full-backs is not too high these days but he's one of the best in the league agreed. Gibbs has done nothing really....broke through in 08/09....has done nothing for the last few years....had a few decent games this season and pple go OTT about him. He's not even at Clichy's level yet and I didnt like Gael too much. Remember he was exceptional in 07/08, team of the season, Gibbs hasnt done anything near that yet...the lad cant string 5 good games together.

We have 3 OK defenders, nothing special there. No top club would entertain any of Koscielny, Mertesacker or Vermaelen. Vermaelen makes errors in every game, Per reads the game well but he's just too damn slow and feeble against PL strikers. Koscielny had a good season last year, was crap in his first season and has been in and out this year. Dont trust any of them. None of them are as good as Kolo Toure was, and he was a level below the top defenders in the league at that time like Sol, Rio etc.

We've dropped our standards in all areas, it's disgusting to watch.

I agree with you about the defending as a unit higher up the pitch. For some reason we are a lazy bunch who are incredibly arrogant and dont put in the effort every week. Madness. But then you also cant legislate for bad errors by defenders and ours make more than other top defenders do, hence I dont consider them top defenders.

Santi101 · 02-12-2012 10:35PM

tayto lover wrote: »

When players stay close to him he is good. Look at the way he set up Jack last week. He is the best we've had in the air for some time. He just needs to be used properly. Proper crosses and he'll show his heading ability too like he did against Reading when he came on. He is simply not getting the supply.

There's been some promising things from Giroud but overall, I think Chamakh or even Bendtner could have matches his goal tally so far given the same number of games. Well Chamakh was doing that in his first season.

He's incredibly limited....it's amazing that Wenger can go from Bergkamp(I know he didnt buy him), Henry, Anelka, Van Persie, even Adebayor, to Giroud with zero competition.

Arsenal make my blood boil these days.

greendom · 02-12-2012 10:38PM

Re Giroud: When he's on his game his movement is excellent and he's great at finding space in the box. He's strong and won't get out-muscled by centre-backs. Anyway it's his first season in the EPL and far too soon to be writing him off.

UnknownSpecies · 02-12-2012 11:02PM

Whoever said Giroud is second rate obviously hasn't been watching Arsenal this year.

He can create chances, he holds off defenders and wins headers, holds the ball up well, his pass for Podolski's goal against Schalke was top notch for example
He's a huge threat in the air evidenced by some of the best headed goals I've seen this year
He has brilliant movement off the ball and gets into some really dangerous positions only to be given a poor ball or the wrong ball
On top of all that, he has a great work rate and is definitely what Arsenal need, we just need to adjust our tactics to suit... 4-4-2 hopefully

batistuta9 · 02-12-2012 11:04PM

Marty McFly wrote: »

making **** up for the sake of a rant so I made up the fact Podolski at the start of the season ran the sock of himself, tracked back, made hard tackles , took on players linked up brilliantly with Cazorla and then as the season has worn on that has happened less and less am I?

you said "its like the Wenger/Arsenal effect has kicked in and he no longer shows the same effort, fight hes been famed for throughout his career" , the other poster said something similar too

Marty McFly wrote: »

Plus I honestly think weve gotten worse as the season has gone on, case in point Podolski the first few games I think a lot of fans fell in love with him, he took on players, he tracked back, he tackled hard as the season has gone on its like the Wenger/Arsenal effect has kicked in and he no longer shows the same effort, fight hes been famed for throughout his career.

he's known as a lazy player throughout his career, playing well for a few games doesn't change that fact.

if arsenal had signed lucas & he scored for 4/5 games in a row, then stopped scoring. would you say the wenger/arsenal effect has ruined him & he no longer shows the same goalscoring ability he's been famed for throughout his career. when lucas has only scored 1 goal for liverpool in the league - no you wouldn't cause it'd be stupid, same as saying podolski's lazy now because of wenger/arsenal is stupid

KINGVictor wrote: »

And your point? If it was known that Poldoski is a lazy player as you say, why did Wenger invest €10 million on him?

My is point is that people shouldn't be making out that podolski is someone who used to work like a dog before he joined arsenal & it's wenger's fault - it's not

why did wenger invest 10mil on him, why did fergie invest 30mil on berbatov

he was signed as a striker to score goals/create chances not some ji-sung park-esque player working his ass off all the time

KINGVictor · 02-12-2012 11:07PM

Santi101 wrote: »

He looks average to me, technically weak, not good enough with his back to goal, very slow.Giroud is a starter for Arsenal, no surprise we are languishing where we are. And his competition is Gervinho. Laughable!...:eek:

The idea about switching formations seems like a good one in theory but we dont have the midfield to play 4-4-2. We are getting overran in there with 3 men.

You have this massive problem with Gervinho and keep making jibes about him going to Africa and never return bla bla bla....... The problem with Arsenal at the moment has nothing to do with him. My memory is not that fantastic but at the start of the season, I seem to recollect that he performed quite well- believe it or not, he did save us from some potentially embarrasing situations.

The reality is we have a team that is disjointed, lack motivation, and an absolute lack of leadership on the field. Your assessment of Giroud is also misguided, I dont see how he would perform to his potential with our current set-up. Ermm, we dont even have a functional midfield capable of supplying half decent balls in the opponent's 18 box which is quite perplexing considering the talent we currently have i.e. Carzola, Wilshere- Man U would be unstoppable with those 2.

I keep refering to Man United; this season, their midfield and defence have been totally abysmal but they have an attack that I consider to be the best in the EPL at the moment- that effectively covers up all those deficiencies; but more importantly, they have a strong team spirit and a proficient managerial system.

In summary, our problems are far bigger than individual players we dont like for whatever reason(s). We have a big issue with the team as a whole.

Marty McFly · 02-12-2012 11:18PM

batistuta9 wrote: »

you said "its like the Wenger/Arsenal effect has kicked in and he no longer shows the same effort, fight hes been famed for throughout his career" , the other poster said something similar too

he's known as a lazy player throughout his career, playing well for a few games doesn't change that fact.

if arsenal had signed lucas & he scored for 4/5 games in a row, then stopped scoring. would you say the wenger/arsenal effect has ruined him & he no longer shows the same goalscoring ability he's been famed for throughout his career. when lucas has only scored 1 goal for liverpool in the league - no you wouldn't cause it'd be stupid, same as saying podolski's lazy now because of wenger/arsenal is stupid

My is point is that people shouldn't be making out that podolski is someone who used to work like a dog before he joined arsenal & it's wenger's fault - it's not

why did wenger invest 10mil on him, why did fergie invest 30mil on berbatov

he was signed as a striker to score goals/create chances not some ji-sung park-esque player working his ass off all the time

I still stand by my point anytime id seen Podolski play he worked hard as he did with us at the start of the season which hes not doing now, and motivating players getting tactics right is a problem we seem to have a lot of the time these days. This jaded term that Wenger likes to pull out of his hat is bull**** to be honest.

Also if Podolski was signed as striker why is he playing in a more wide position more often than not? No one claimed he was a ji-sung park -esque player as you put it but no matter were on a pitch a player is playing I want to see them fighting for the ball showing passion and drive and working there ass of all the time, very few players can afford not to there the Ronaldos of this world who are exceptions to the rule imo.

Yes I did say the Wenger/Arsenal effect because how many of players do seem to meander around the pitch when things arent going our way?

emergingstar · 02-12-2012 11:55PM

Frimpong is this years Lansbury everyone wants him to get a chance but he is just not good enough

02-12-2012 11:56PM

Santi101 wrote: »

I agree with you about the defending as a unit higher up the pitch. For some reason we are a lazy bunch who are incredibly arrogant and dont put in the effort every week. Madness. But then you also cant legislate for bad errors by defenders and ours make more than other top defenders do, hence I dont consider them top defenders.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on the central defenders because I'm certainly not conceding that no other PL team would have them starting.

As for defenders making mistakes, how many have there been lately? I can't think of a whole lot of glaring ones that have led to us conceding recently.

batistuta9 · 03-12-2012 12:13AM

Marty McFly wrote: »

I still stand by my point anytime id seen Podolski play he worked hard as he did with us at the start of the season which hes not doing now, and motivating players getting tactics right is a problem we seem to have a lot of the time these days. This jaded term that Wenger likes to pull out of his hat is bull**** to be honest.

Also if Podolski was signed as striker why is he playing in a more wide position more often than not? No one claimed he was a ji-sung park -esque player as you put it but no matter were on a pitch a player is playing I want to see them fighting for the ball showing passion and drive and working there ass of all the time, very few players can afford not to there the Ronaldos of this world who are exceptions to the rule imo.

Yes I did say the Wenger/Arsenal effect because how many of players do seem to meander around the pitch when things arent going our way?

well i'm just telling you that podolski's got a reputation of being a lazy player & you don't get labelled that by performing the way he did in his first few games, actually you don't even get it after a few lazy performances it's gotten over a period of time. So it's no surprise podolski's playing like he is tbh

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what wenger says publicly - especially straight after a game - about the team, it's not really his style to criticise his players in public for the world to write/report about. You really think he "never seen" all those incidents.

he said after the game "We were not creative, nor sharp" ..... " The quality of our game was not there. It was a bit frustrating because we lacked a bit of decisiveness and creativity" That's about as much of a criticism of them you're going to get from him, it's honest enough too but he's a great man for not saying anything too dismissive of them publicly

arsenal play with 3 strikers, the wide players in a 4-3-3 are strikers

wandatowell · 03-12-2012 12:45AM

Marty McFly wrote: »

Well if you look back to the pre season where he ran the show before he first tore his ligament and showed man of the match displays with Wenger singing his praises expecting him to break into the Arsenal first team that year .

you cannot judge a player on pre season form. I seem to remember Gervinho actually looking like a quality player in a few pre season games.
And Arsene sings the praises of every young first teamer. Nothing new there.

Im just saying that he hasnt ever shown me anything to say that he will ever make it as a first team regular at Arsenal.

gnfnrhead · 03-12-2012 01:45AM

I defend Frimpong, but on the pre-season form thing, two words: Arturo Lupoli.

Marty McFly · 03-12-2012 02:03AM

batistuta9 wrote: »

well i'm just telling you that podolski's got a reputation of being a lazy player & you don't get labelled that by performing the way he did in his first few games, actually you don't even get it after a few lazy performances it's gotten over a period of time. So it's no surprise podolski's playing like he is tbh

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what wenger says publicly - especially straight after a game - about the team, it's not really his style to criticise his players in public for the world to write/report about. You really think he "never seen" all those incidents.

he said after the game "We were not creative, nor sharp" ..... " The quality of our game was not there. It was a bit frustrating because we lacked a bit of decisiveness and creativity" That's about as much of a criticism of them you're going to get from him, it's honest enough too but he's a great man for not saying anything too dismissive of them publicly

arsenal play with 3 strikers, the wide players in a 4-3-3 are strikers

I know ive read what Vogts said about him etc but im talking about everytime I seen him play I was impressed with his work ethic now admittedly I didnt watch him week in and week out but had seen before he joined Arsenal, also I was using him as an example of the whole teams ethic

.

I know but for once Id like Wenger to come out and say things publcily like other managers do, hes made himself a bit of a laughing stock at this stage with his ducking and diving in the media really.

They are and they arent three strikers really, we play with one out and out CF with the other two hopefully chipping in with goals but I wouldnt say we play with three strikers either.

wandatowell wrote: »

you cannot judge a player on pre season form. I seem to remember Gervinho actually looking like a quality player in a few pre season games.
And Arsene sings the praises of every young first teamer. Nothing new there.

Im just saying that he hasnt ever shown me anything to say that he will ever make it as a first team regular at Arsenal.

Ah I know that pre season is pre season, Gervinho has looked quality in some games not only pre season I feel hes becoming this seasons Walcott the player everyone loves to give out about, Gervinho as much as he annoys me can also be dangerous at times hes just not consistent enough in finishing or final ball but he does cause defences problems. I think Frimpong does have the potential to be a regular at Arsenal I love his engine he can make powerful runs aswell, he just needs to learn to calm down a bit which will hopefully come with experience in my own opinion I have always rated him higher than Coquelin who has shown very little this year to warrant his reputation, Frimpong may not either but im hoping his loan spell can help him gain some experience and fitness back.

Santi101 · 03-12-2012 09:00AM

KINGVictor wrote: »

You have this massive problem with Gervinho and keep making jibes about him going to Africa and never return bla bla bla....... The problem with Arsenal at the moment has nothing to do with him. My memory is not that fantastic but at the start of the season, I seem to recollect that he performed quite well- believe it or not, he did save us from some potentially embarrasing situations.

The reality is we have a team that is disjointed, lack motivation, and an absolute lack of leadership on the field. Your assessment of Giroud is also misguided, I dont see how he would perform to his potential with our current set-up. Ermm, we dont even have a functional midfield capable of supplying half decent balls in the opponent's 18 box which is quite perplexing considering the talent we currently have i.e. Carzola, Wilshere- Man U would be unstoppable with those 2.

I keep refering to Man United; this season, their midfield and defence have been totally abysmal but they have an attack that I consider to be the best in the EPL at the moment- that effectively covers up all those deficiencies; but more importantly, they have a strong team spirit and a proficient managerial system.

In summary, our problems are far bigger than individual players we dont like for whatever reason(s). We have a big issue with the team as a whole.

Gervinho is just a rubbish player, crap goalscoring record, predictable, weak, poor shooting technique, cant seem to cross a ball off the ground. He scored a couple of nice goals earlier in the season but then he was just a **** player who had scored a couple of goals, these sorts always revert back to form.

There might be a problem overall, there almost certainly is, but we're going nowhere with this group of players whether Ferguson or Mourinho are in charge.

Hopefully we stop shopping in Ligue 1, the days of Henry etc coming out of there are long gone. Germany and Spain is the way to go.

TheGunns · 03-12-2012 10:37AM

Santi101 wrote: »

Gervinho is just a rubbish player, crap goalscoring record, predictable, weak, poor shooting technique, cant seem to cross a ball off the ground. He scored a couple of nice goals earlier in the season but then he was just a **** player who had scored a couple of goals, these sorts always revert back to form.

There might be a problem overall, there almost certainly is, but we're going nowhere with this group of players whether Ferguson or Mourinho are in charge.

Hopefully we stop shopping in Ligue 1, the days of Henry etc coming out of there are long gone. Germany and Spain is the way to go.

wouldnt agree with that at all, hes a good players but very clumsy. Needs a chance but we dont have the time to give him a chance, Giroud gives so many more options than the other two/three.

Ligue 1 has lots of good players and there will be someone like Henry to come from there again, Henry wasnt a world great straight off. Hes getting good players out of the league and its only a matter of time really.

Even if statistically this is Wengers worst start, I feel its a lot better than last season. Wenger is the only man to bring this team forward, or else someone else internal. I dont believe we need some coach from the outside coming in and try to get this team to play. They just look sluggish.

Galvasean · 03-12-2012 11:24AM

What's everyone's opinion on Steve Bould's apparent hair-dryer treatment of the team after the Swansea match; legit or publicity stunt?

emergingstar · 03-12-2012 11:28AM

Galvasean wrote: »

What's everyone's opinion on Steve Bould's apparent hair-dryer treatment of the team after the Swansea match; legit or publicity stunt?

Publicity stunt too many papers had the exclusive, say someone leaked it to everyone

tayto lover · 03-12-2012 11:34AM

Galvasean wrote: »

What's everyone's opinion on Steve Bould's apparent hair-dryer treatment of the team after the Swansea match; legit or publicity stunt?

Has to be false.
Like why wait until after the Swansea game when he had plenty of opportunities all year?
If it did happen then it's just cosmetic and a response to the booing. Too little, too late.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 03-12-2012 11:44AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Has to be false.
Like why wait until after the Swansea game when he had plenty of opportunities all year?
If it did happen then it's just cosmetic and a response to the booing. Too little, too late.

Szczesny referred to it in his after match interview so I'd say there is something to it. Who's to say he has done something similar at another time this year or that Swansea was his breaking point, as it seems to have been for many fans. And it's obviously not too little to late as there is still over half the season to go.

Honestly, people ask for this sort of stuff to happen all the time and then when it does there's something new to complain about.

tayto lover · 03-12-2012 11:49AM

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Szczesny referred to it in his after match interview so I'd say there is something to it. Who's to say he has done something similar at another time this year or that Swansea was his breaking point, as it seems to have been for many fans. And it's obviously not too little to late as there is still over half the season to go.

Honestly, people ask for this sort of stuff to happen all the time and then when it does there's something new to complain about.

I would have done it after we stole 2 points from QPR to be fair.
That would have been the time for me.
Others might say that he should have done it after the first two boring draws. Some say that now is the right time.
It's all about opinions here. Another opinion of mine is that Wenger should have done it himself and then gone up and lambasted the Board too.
All about opinions.

Gringo180 · 03-12-2012 01:32PM

Lads just out of interest if Wenger was to go who would yous like in to replace him? Personally id like to see the likes of Joachim Low or the current Dortmund coach Jurgen Klopp.

Galvasean · 03-12-2012 01:35PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

Lads just out of interest if Wenger was to go who would yous like in to replace him? Personally id like to see the likes of Joachim Low or the current Dortmund coach.

As always, I'd leave Wenger on until the end of the season and judge him accordingly then. Around this time last season and in years gone by a great many were calling for his sacking, but he pulled through in the end. I'm far from happy with the way things are going right now, but I don't see much point in sacking him before the end of the season.

Quazzie · 03-12-2012 01:44PM

Walter Mazzarri, or Dragan Stojkovic would be my two nominations.

Gringo180 · 03-12-2012 01:54PM

Galvasean wrote: »

As always, I'd leave Wenger on until the end of the season and judge him accordingly then. Around this time last season and in years gone by a great many were calling for his sacking, but he pulled through in the end. I'm far from happy with the way things are going right now, but I don't see much point in sacking him before the end of the season.

I totally agree and the last thing I want to see is Wenger go I think we would be in a far worse state if it wasnt for him. I just asked the question just to see who people would nominate who they would like to see replace him if he were to go.

Mickeroo · 03-12-2012 02:01PM

Was pretty livid after the match, calmed down a bit about it now. Still never been more disgusted with the team but agree sacking Wenger would be premature. Sacking managers mid season is never a good idea imho anyway, also my biggest fear is if he does get dropped at some point that we'll become a merry go round farce like chelsea are.

If there really is money now then he deserves a chance to do something with it. In some ways the loss at the weekend might be a blessing in disguise, maybe it will give the team a kick up the arse. The scoreless draw it was looking like would only have papered over the cracks really. We'd have been disappointed for sure but there wouldn't have been the outrage we're seeing now.

At the end of the day we're still not far off the top 4 and we're not half way through the season yet. Last season was a rollercoaster in terms of being excited/disappointed with the team but we pulled through in the end. This season has been much the same really so far(though worse results wise in general tbf) as there's been times where I thought the team looked brilliant and times like now where I wouldn't fancy beating anyone.

Anyway, I'm offically forgetting about the Swansea match now, we've a CL match tomorrow night with an outside chance of still topping the group. Onward and upward I suppose.

jonneymendoza · 03-12-2012 02:02PM

i want to ask a question to u all.

do u support arsene wenger or arsenal the football club?

If u support the club first and foremost, should u not want wenger sacked if he cant do the job at hand?

Irish Aris · 03-12-2012 02:09PM

Previous experience (not in Arsenal, I am talking general), that changing manager in the middle of the season, is most likely not to improve the situation drastically to the better. It can happen, but it is not the likeliest scenario.
I would agree that we need to wait until the end of the season before considering changing manager. I am still pro-Wenger, I think he is doing a good job with the budget he has, but if no titles come this season it will be 8 in a row empty handed, and patience is running out. . .
Not just Wenger's fault (I hold teh directors equally if not more responsible), but the manager is always teh easiest target.
And although I like Wenger, some of his decisions on roster and set-up of the team. . .well, I found them questionable.

blingrhino · 03-12-2012 02:35PM

if we dont win tomorrow night - the atmosphere and booing will be horendous

Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

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