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Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

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Comments

  • #3242
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    5starpool wrote: »
    Punt matches? Sterling hasn't been very good the last few games. Whether it's down to tiredness, or people copping on to him or whatever, he hasn't been undroppable. I'd have Suso playing more often, even give Assiadi a chance, push Gerrard up a bit (It's not like he is key in the midfield trio so I don't buy this he'll be pushed up when Lucas is back lark). The squad may be small enough, but it is not being rotated in the right areas. Allen needs to be given a kick up the backside as well lately.

    I agree that Sterling should get a rest but thats because id have confidence in Assaidi being able to do a job in his place. Lloyd doesnt have that same confidence so if he wants Sterling rested, who does he want to replace him?

    Gerrard will be pushed up if our squad is fully fit. BR said exactly that on an episode of Being Liverpool so i have no reason to doubt that.


  • #3243
    Jayob10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭Jayob10


    Kess73 wrote: »
    I think we had an underwhelming summer rather than a bad one. We brought in some of what we needed, but then fell short when it came to bringing in that bit of genuine quality we needed. I think that if we had finished the window by adding someone like Damiao (picked him because he was allegedly linked with us in the summer) to what we actually got then we would have been saying it was a decent to good window, and if we had added Damiao and a genuine box to box midfielder ( a more traditional CM if you like), then we would have been very happy with the window.


    The summer before was a far worse one imho as it brought in many players who cost what genuine quality would cost in terms of transfer fee, yet turned out to be squad player level at best in most cases.

    Actually if we go back yet another summer, the 2010 window, we get another window that flattered to deceive and that saw very little improvement if any as a whole.

    The 2009 summer was a bit meh as well. Damn it really makes for pretty uninspiring reading when one starts to relook at each summer window since 2009. Hindsight is always a harsh judge. I know the net spend arguement can be used and all that, but when one looks at many of the big money signings (£15m and upwards) since then I think that only two have been what I would deem a success ( Suarez and Johnson) and one looks like he might do well (Allen).

    As always it boils down to a lot of ifs, and what could have beens, but even taking into account the players who did leave the club during that period we really did waste a hell of a lot of the money we had on midtable quality players.

    Maybe we should not be as surprised and outraged to find ourselves sitting firmly in midtable in 2012 when we have steadily worked towards that position through many of our signings.

    Excellent synopsis.

    We do an awful of crowing about how "X is going to be a great player in the future, he will develop" etc etc.... after spending a fair chunk on such player.

    This is a common theme with Liverpool fans in the last 3 years. Carroll and Henderson are two prime examples.

    Henderson in particular gets cut a hell of alot of slack. Going on what we have seen so far the guy has been very poor, and using the future as a way of judging him is more wishful thinking than anything.


  • #3244
    MyBrokenKnees
    Closed Accounts Posts: 922 ✭✭✭MyBrokenKnees


    MD1990 wrote: »
    he will be monitered by the back room team
    they will know by tracking his stats from each game if he is ok

    Stats are all well and good.. But stats won't tell you how his hamstrings are preforming or how being tackled hard game in game out effect his 17 year old frame as he is not built like a brick sh1t house like Wisdom. The kid needs a rest from first team action.


  • #3245
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,872 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    Melion wrote: »
    Gerrard will be pushed up if our squad is fully fit. BR said exactly that on an episode of Being Liverpool so i have no reason to doubt that.

    I really don't believe this will be the case, despite what he said.


  • #3246
    Strongbow10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭Strongbow10


    Jayob10 wrote: »
    Our problem is how naive we are when we don't have possession. Positionally very poor.

    Seems like all tactical work is done with the ball, which is something to admire in some ways but the team (midfield particularly) looks all at sea when we are not in possession.

    We are caught in 2 minds as to whether to hold our shape or else press, when a player breaks ranks to press you can see they are having to close alot of ground in order to do so and a noticeable gap is left.

    We are in sync when we have possession, lots of movement off the ball, but when someone presses a team mate doesn't shift across to plug the gaps to make us compact.

    We are in essence, going man for man when we don't have the ball which is dangerous when we seem to be losing alot of 50-50 battles.

    We are seeing numerous occasions where teams break and quite easily its 5 v 5 (Johnson, Downing, Skrtel, Agger and Allen). This is a major problem and good sides will do damage.

    On the flipside, quite recycling of possession sees us maintain bodies in dangerous areas of the field when we break. But the balance is all wrong, we still seem to be unwilling to commit bodies into the box.

    Its an excellent tactical approach, but its high risk. And you need intelligent players to play it as it involves never playing in straight lines. For instance the players wide of the striker (Sterling and Suso/Enrique) need to use their intelligence and judgement in when they should tuck in an join the striker to ensure he is not isolated. A one dimensional player i.e Downing has the natural inclination to hog the touchline so his radar as to when to join the striker will never be there, hence he will never be a goal threat.

    The key players in this system will be the ball winner in midfield who will successfully recycle possession and the attacking widemen, who know exactly when to break and when to join the striker. In fairness, Suarez probably is one of these widemen, an inside forward but for now we are having to use him as a central striker.

    Gerrard seems a viable option for an inside left role, liberate him from any defensive duties (he seems to be making this decision himself, i.e half arsed tracking back) and let him operate higher up the field cutting in from the left.

    Cracking post again, we definately look poor when teams regain possession, it seems like the system falls to pieces when we lose it.

    We are playing very loose, which frankly I don't think is advisable given our personnel


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  • #3247
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,159 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Ardent wrote: »
    Worst signing I can remember by the club in 25 years.
    Downing has been pretty bad, but Diouf was a worse signing.


  • #3248
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Does anyone else think Rodgers may be a couple of seasons too late with his current philosophy ?


  • #3249
    Cartman78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,214 ✭✭✭✭Cartman78


    Ardent wrote: »
    Sorry, but I have to interject here! 1) Kuyt was muck for us in his last couple of seasons. 2) Bellamy wanted to leave as his personal life was in turmoil.

    re: Kuyt - I know he wasn't brilliant by any means last season but still retained his penchant for scoring in big games (ie. ManU in the FA Cup)

    re: Bellamy - contributed a few goals too in big games, ManCity in the Rumbelows Cup springs to mind for example.

    Don't think either them would improve the current team tbh


  • #3250
    Strongbow10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭Strongbow10


    Francie Barrett wrote: »
    Downing has been pretty bad, but Diouf was a worse signing.

    Aquilani was a horrendous signing, up there with the very worst.


  • #3251
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Leiva wrote: »
    Does anyone else think Rodgers may be a couple of seasons too late with his current philosophy ?



    If he's given time then no, if not then yea.


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  • #3252
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    We definitely have this habit of buying average. Towards the end of Rafa we had assembled the best squad of 8-10 million pound players on the planet.

    OK players but we have / had a squad full of squad players ... I know that makes football sense :)


  • #3253
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    Kuyt was a solid performer against the bigger clubs.

    We could do with a kuyt-esque type player to help the midfield


  • #3254
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    I would love to have Kuyt right now .


  • #3255
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    Jesus i know people take the píss out of Liverpool fans for living in the past but you cant even give out when they say it when you see people acting like they do in here lately.

    Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy brought nothing to the team last season, they wanted to leave. It suited everyone that the 3 left.


  • #3256
    Jayob10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭Jayob10


    We are the exact opposite of Arsenal in many ways.

    They have seen key player after key player leave but they have not sacrificed champions league football. They haven't even sacrificed being competitive in the champions league either.

    Our problem has been replacing key players with dross. And it has been for many years. Bad judgement in the transfer market is the reason for where we are in the table for the last few years.

    As for Kuyt and Maxi? Both were on wages of key first team players for a top 4 side. Neither played for a team in the top 4, not only that, neither were regulars.

    I have no problem seeing us offload both.


  • #3257
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    Melion wrote: »
    Jesus i know people take the píss out of Liverpool fans for living in the past but you cant even give out when they say it when you see people acting like they do in here lately.

    Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy brought nothing to the team last season, they wanted to leave. It suited everyone that the 3 left.

    Hardly fair is it?

    I thought Bellamy was particularly good for the first few months of last season, overall he had a decent impact. Maxi didn't play much but chipped in with a decent number of goals. Kuyt wasn't great but scored a couple of important goals, the winner against United in the FA cup and in the CC final.

    They contributed far from nothing last season. They're the type of squad players that can plug gaps and make a substantial difference throughout the season. The fact that they weren't replaced adequately is really hurting Liverpool this season.


  • #3258
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    I think the only key player from recent years that we havent replaced has been Xabi.


  • #3259
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    Blatter wrote: »
    Hardly fair is it?

    I thought Bellamy was particularly good for the first few months of last season, overall he had a decent impact. Maxi didn't play much but chipped in with a decent number of goals. Kuyt wasn't great but scored a couple of important goals, the winner against United in the FA cup and in the CC final.

    They contributed far from nothing last season. They're the type of squad players that can plug gaps and make a substantial difference throughout the season. The fact that they weren't replaced adequately is really hurting Liverpool this season.

    Given the choice of Kuyt/Maxi/Bellamy and Sterling/Suso/Borini, id take the young lads every single time.


  • #3260
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,159 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Jayob10 wrote: »
    As for Kuyt and Maxi? Both were on wages of key first team players for a top 4 side.
    You've hit the nail on the head there, mate.


  • #3261
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    Blatter wrote: »
    Hardly fair is it?

    I thought Bellamy was particularly good for the first few months of last season, overall he had a decent impact. Maxi didn't play much but chipped in with a decent number of goals. Kuyt wasn't great but scored a couple of important goals, the winner against United in the FA cup and in the CC final.

    They contributed far from nothing last season. They're the type of squad players that can plug gaps and make a substantial difference throughout the season. The fact that they weren't replaced adequately is really hurting Liverpool this season.

    Maxi never got chance, it was obvious Kenny didnt like him despite his goals.

    Kuyt was slowing down but an asset for the big games

    Bellamy, we miss. Last year we couldn't play him every week due to injury. Starting or off the bench Bellamy was a real threat


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  • #3262
    Slattsy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,775 ✭✭✭✭Slattsy


    MD1990 wrote: »
    15 forwards nominated for World XI: Aguero Balotelli Benzema Cavani Cristiano Drogba Eto'o Falcao Gomez Messi Neymar Roonay Suarez VanPersie

    How does he get nominated for these awards ?
    He's been tripe the last few years.

    The token Englishman ! :D


  • #3263
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,159 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Blatter wrote: »
    They're the type of squad players that can plug gaps
    For the money that was spent on these guys, you'd want more than a squad player.


  • #3264
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,705 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Melion wrote: »
    Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy brought nothing to the team last season, they wanted to leave. It suited everyone that the 3 left.

    Maxi wasn't used but chipped in with a few goals / assists when he did get time.

    Kuyt / Bellamy "brought nothing to the team last season" is dreadfully ignorant and incorrect.


  • #3265
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    Melion wrote: »
    I think the only key player from recent years that we havent replaced has been Xabi.

    You cannot replace certain players.


  • #3266
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Maxi wasn't used but chipped in with a few goals / assists when he did get time.

    Whose fault was that?

    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Kuyt / Bellamy "brought nothing to the team last season" is dreadfully ignorant and incorrect.

    What did they do in the league last season? 8 league goals between them.


  • #3267
    Jayob10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭Jayob10


    Melion wrote: »
    I think the only key player from recent years that we havent replaced has been Xabi.

    Mascherano hasn't been replaced.

    Torres hasn't been replaced. And before you claim Suarez is the replacement, no he is not.


  • #3268
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    Jayob10 wrote: »
    Mascherano hasn't been replaced.

    Torres hasn't been replaced. And before you claim Suarez is the replacement, no he is not.

    Lucas says hello.

    As an out and out goalscorer, Torres hasnt been replaced. Suarez is a much better footballer though.


  • #3269
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Melion wrote: »
    Given the choice of Kuyt/Maxi/Bellamy and Sterling/Suso/Borini, id take the young lads every single time.

    Its not that straight forward and I wouldn't compare them straight up like that.

    Yes the players left for various reasons but when I look at our current squad a player like Kuyt is missing.
    A dogged hard working whore who would work between the lines making space and closing down.

    It doesn't all have to be a show and beautiful football for me.
    3 points is king.
    The way Steve Clarke plays is probably my ideal solution/system.
    Its not got much flare but its solid, balanced, and really hard to play against.
    They will soak up pressure , but by golly don't drop your guard for a second as they will punish.

    We seem to be trying to kill teams with possession football, but its gummy and as I said before its Piss Horn Football .
    Looks great but fúck all penetration


  • #3270
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,159 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    T-K-O wrote: »
    Maxi never got chance, it was obvious Kenny didnt like him despite his goals.
    Maxi got plenty of chances. The problem he had that while he was great at finding chances and popping up with the odd goal, his overall play was pretty poor. He had the brain, but to me, it seemed like he just didn't have the legs.
    T-K-O wrote: »
    Kuyt was slowing down but an asset for the big games
    Kuyt clearly struggled in his final season for us, even in the big games.
    T-K-O wrote: »
    Bellamy, we miss. Last year we couldn't play him every week due to injury. Starting or off the bench Bellamy was a real threat
    He was on huge wages for a player that you can't even play regularly.


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  • #3271
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    Melion wrote: »
    Whose fault was that?




    What did they do in the league last season? 8 league goals between them.

    If that is your honest assessment of Bellamy you need a rest


This discussion has been closed.
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