Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Seamu$ · 29-11-2012 01:04PM

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'll offer you a good deal, ye take Sturridge for £10 Million and we'll spend that on Huntelaar?

Thanks.

Agent Benitez will not allow this to happen!

Do ye want Joe Cole back?!

NabyLadistheman · 29-11-2012 01:12PM

If I see Enrique LM again I will cry. Similar to last season we are over-reliant on our full-backs being the go-to guys when we are trying to create something. Everything up-front is so forced and just looks awkward. Cannot understand for the life of me why Sahin & more so Suso were not used last night. It was crying out for someone with Suso's technical ability

Thought Gerrard did ok last night. He should have had a peno & it was his header off the line for the goal. He clearly doesn't have the legs to truely dominate like the Gerrard of old though.

Cartman78 · 29-11-2012 01:12PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why is this difficult for people to grasp? If Kenny had stayed, it would be because he was being an additional year to get things right (which he clearly should have been granted). Getting it right would involve achieving the objective he had from the outset - CL Qualification. The expectation would be that his signings bed in better, we focus on the league and rekindle the form of the calendar year 2011.

This is where my position and that of daithijjj intersect I think. If Dalglish was here last summer the owners would simply not have been able to slash wages, to make laughable offers for Dempsey, to leave a manager high and dry for a badly needed striker.

This is really why I and others are foaming at the mouth - Rodgers embodies a significant lowering of status, expectation and pressure throughout the entire club. We aren't actually trying to compete right now. There is lots of talk, endless talk but the actions and the personnel involved are not competitive.

"Magnificent", "Outstanding", "Relentless" after a loss away at Spurs. Talk about them being the club to emulate. If you forget where you're supposed to be going you'll sure as hell never get there.

I know that. Kenny is still rightly revered amongst those who recognise what this club is about and what he was trying to do last season. That isn't true of everyone though, and a lot of things have been said that should never have been thought.

Two Cup finals? Standing 10 feet tall in his defense of our most important player? No, I wouldn't agree his position was untenable. He absolutely should have received another year - especially if the replacement was Brendan Rodgers.

Fair enough - don't agree with you but it wouldn't be much fun here if everyone was drinking the Kenny Kool Aid/Bowing down to Brendan (delete as appropriate)

BTW comments like 'Assaidi bum' undermine the points you make

Knex* · 29-11-2012 01:17PM

I'm not getting dragged into the Rodgers/Kenny debate, not now anyway, but one thing I have to say is, if Sterling isn't rested soon I will go spare.

Lloyd is right in that account, he has looked jaded in the last few games and its far too much for a man of his age to be playing right now. What worries me is that Rodgers only recently after the International game said Sterling could go out and play another 90mins he's so fit. No, no he's not. Give the kid a rest and let the likes of Assaidi try and prove from the start that he's worth a shout.

Hidalgo · 29-11-2012 01:19PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why is this difficult for people to grasp? If Kenny had stayed, it would be because he was being an additional year to get things right (which he clearly should have been granted). Getting it right would involve achieving the objective he had from the outset - CL Qualification. The expectation would be that his signings bed in better, we focus on the league and rekindle the form of the calendar year 2011.

Do you in your hearts of hearts believe that Dalglish's signings would have bedded in better this year had he been kept on. Why, simply because they'd have been at the club longer. Whatever about not having to slash the wage bill, he wouldn't have been given a penny to spend last summer after previous showings.

Personally, I fail to see how last years league form as a whole (not first 14 or last 14 games) would have seen a jump to 4th.

Kess73 · 29-11-2012 01:20PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

daithijjj has addressed this before. They should have got another season within the system. We've dumped them too quickly imo. Carroll should definitely be around as an option, I didn't think that was even debateable?

Yes Daithi gave his opinion on those players, but were you not the guy saying that we wasted a hell of a lot of money on overpriced English talent and who had a mantra of "No more english" during the summer?

I know you have said Carroll should have been kept and played more (god knows why because he has been pretty useless in front of goal for nearly two years now and is close to being what you called Assaidi, probably worse given he costs a hell of a lot more in wasted wages), and you have always been very consistent in your views on him to be fair, I may disagree with your take on that player but I do respect your opinion on him.

But Downing I do not remember you being so gentle to in terms of assessment. In fact I can remember you passing comment on him and Cole in particular during the summer.

Given that you have said in the past 24 hours that you think Downing should be played more on the left wing, what exactly is it in his play for us since he arrived in the summer of 2011 has convinced you that Liverpool is the club for him and that he is the player for Liverpool? More to the point whatexactly has Downing done in football terms since the summer just gone that has converted you from wanting him out to wanting him to be a regular on the left wing? I am genuinely curious to hear your take on that player and what has changed your mind on him.

Part of me thinks, and I could be miles off target with this, that you hope the Kenny signings come good at some point in order to take the tarnish of being involved in signing them away from Kenny's name. If that is true in anyway then I actually get that as very few, if any, wanted Kenny's second term to end as it did, but the wastes of money signings (imho of course) should not tarnish Kenny's legacy in any way, as the man is a club legend whose legacy and reputation as a player, manager, and person will outlive him for the best possible reasons.

So hit me with the reason(s) behind this new Downing love.

LuckyLloyd · 29-11-2012 01:31PM

I'm not saying Downing would be in my first eleven. But resting Sterling takes priority. I also have no idea what he's doing at left back?

Generally though, I called the signings as poor and have been largely proven correct on that score. But you can't dump players without sourcing alternatives.

Dumping Carroll left us too short on strikers.
Dumping Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy means you have to rotate Downing in up there

We had a very bad summer, future facing or not.

Gbear · 29-11-2012 01:37PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I love Lucas and can't wait to see him back, but Lucas doesn't score or create goals.

Suarez aside our goal scoring has been utter ****e. Even for what aren't particularly good goal scorers we've done poorly.

I think Lucas makes the entire team play better and he should force Gerrard out of midfield.
At times this season it's been like playing with 10 against 12 with Gerrard on the pitch. He's been a serious liability at times in midfield.

I'd actually like to see him dropped for a game or 2 when Lucas comes back. Try out Sahin next to Lucas with Allen in front of them. Allen hasn't been great but he can at least consistently hang on to the ball.

I think another point is that it allows our FBs to be more attacking without losing defensive rigidity. Seeing as we have nobody in midfield who contributes to attack that could be really important.

PRAF wrote: »

As others have pointed out, the points total and league position are a little unfair right now. We've been on the end of a lot of questionable / entirely wrong decisions.

Although I largely agree with your post, this has gone on long enough that I think we can safely say it's bull****.
You can say "We played well. That's good. It means we might win our next game." but over the course of a season and 1/3 since the start of last season if you look at every team's instances of bad luck I doubt we'd stand out much. There's a bit of an exception with how biased the refereeing of Suarez was at the start of the season but aside from that it has been par for the course.

We seem to be particularly poor at dealing with adversity. I think blaming bad luck for our predicament is just wishful thinking. We're not unlucky, we're ****e.

There's certainly some good players at the club but we're systemically bad at scoring goals. We've got 1 player who's mostly resorted to being amazing and doing it on his own. Other teams manage to get a good few goals from tap-ins, headers and set pieces by players who aren't as good as those we have here.
With Gerrard both playing ****e and out of position (obviously they're related) we have no attacking presence in midfield. We have a midfield that defends and gives the ball to the attack just inside the opponents half and then, job done, they fart around outside the box until we lose the ball. There's been a few exceptions but by and large we've been pretty poor at supporting the attack.
If we keep doing that then the magical striker that'll fix everything will certainly make things better but it'll still be mostly him and Suarez doing it by themselves.

Far too seldom have we seen an on-form Gerrard at the apex of midfield, another midfielder arriving late into the box and both full backs supporting the attack. That's something that needs to start happening regardless of who we sign in January.

29-11-2012 01:40PM

Downing at LB is ok maybe at home in the Europa Cup, or league cup.

Away to spurs in the league it was madness.

Downing imo has been the biggest let down of all the signings. He was supposed to be at his peak and was a solid player for Villa.

Tbh, I can't wait for him to leave the club albeit at a huge loss.

Melion · 29-11-2012 01:43PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

daithijjj has addressed this before. They should have got another season within the system. We've dumped them too quickly imo. Carroll should definitely be around as an option, I didn't think that was even debateable?

So you'd quite happily still have Adam in our midfield in place of Allen? You'd have no problem trying to fit Carroll and Downing into our first team? Carroll as an option? Why exactly? Because he has played so well since January 2010? There you are, letting players live off reputations again.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Seems he won another trophy in his 18 months back at the helm, but what do I know...

Did he or did he not go 17 yseasons without winning a trophy?

Luckycharms_74 · 29-11-2012 01:44PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not saying Downing would be in my first eleven. But resting Sterling takes priority. I also have no idea what he's doing at left back?

Generally though, I called the signings as poor and have been largely proven correct on that score. But you can't dump players without sourcing alternatives.

Dumping Carroll left us too short on strikers.
Dumping Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy means you have to rotate Downing in up there

We had a very bad summer, future facing or not.

I agree that Sterling needs a rest, but in no way shape of form should downing get his position. There are enough alternatives to take Sterling's position ahead of Downing

We didn't dump them

Maxi wanted to go back home
Kuyt's decision was made when Kenny was there, Kuyt even said himself that it had nothing to do with Rodgers him leaving for Turkey
Bellamy left because of personal reasons.

mike65 · 29-11-2012 01:44PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Generally though, I called the signings as poor and have been largely proven correct on that score. But you can't dump players without sourcing alternatives.

Dumping Carroll left us too short on strikers.
Dumping Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy means you have to rotate Downing in up there

Dumping?

Maxi wanted to go home and was ignored by Dalglish lets not forget, Kuyt was after regular first team football as a striker, (again we could question Dalglish here though as it happens I think it was right for him to move on) Ballamy also wanted to go home (or was told to go home by his missus, rumour has it).

Melion · 29-11-2012 01:46PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not saying Downing would be in my first eleven. But resting Sterling takes priority. I also have no idea what he's doing at left back?

Generally though, I called the signings as poor and have been largely proven correct on that score. But you can't dump players without sourcing alternatives.

Dumping Carroll left us too short on strikers.
Dumping Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy means you have to rotate Downing in up there

We had a very bad summer, future facing or not.

You want Sterling rested, for who? Downing who is laughable or Assaidi who is a bum now, Joe Cole maybe?

Losing Carroll didnt leave us short on strikers, it left us short 1 body. He offered nothing as a striker in his time at Liverpool.

Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy all wanted to leave. How many times do you have to be told this before it gets into your head? You cannot force players to stay at a club.

LuckyLloyd · 29-11-2012 01:47PM

They weren't replaced.

Melion · 29-11-2012 01:49PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They weren't replaced.

Suso? Sterling? Borini?

None of them were in the first team squad last season(dont embarass yourself by saying Sterling was). They are the 3 replacements for Kuyt, Bellamy and Maxi.

Ardent · 29-11-2012 01:53PM

Cartman78 wrote: »

Maybe if he'd been able to hang on to Kuyt and Bellamy for another season and maybe if they'd been able to chip in with a few goals here and there to paper over the cracks we might have a few more points than we do now.

Sorry, but I have to interject here! 1) Kuyt was muck for us in his last couple of seasons. 2) Bellamy wanted to leave as his personal life was in turmoil.

MD1990 · 29-11-2012 01:53PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not saying Downing would be in my first eleven. But resting Sterling takes priority. I also have no idea what he's doing at left back?

Generally though, I called the signings as poor and have been largely proven correct on that score. But you can't dump players without sourcing alternatives.

Dumping Carroll left us too short on strikers.
Dumping Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy means you have to rotate Downing in up there

We had a very bad summer, future facing or not.

he wanted to keep Maxi & Bellamy but they left for personal reasons
Kuyt was very poor last year & i think he was gone by the time Rodgers was manager

Ardent · 29-11-2012 01:55PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Downing at LB is ok maybe at home in the Europa Cup, or league cup.

Away to spurs in the league it was madness.

Downing imo has been the biggest let down of all the signings. He was supposed to be at his peak and was a solid player for Villa.

Tbh, I can't wait for him to leave the club albeit at a huge loss.

Worst signing I can remember by the club in 25 years.

Nuri Sahin · 29-11-2012 01:57PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I love Lucas and can't wait to see him back, but Lucas doesn't score or create goals.

Him stabilizing the midfield should hopefully help improve the attack somewhat, in the sense that it frees up players to get forward.

rarnes1 wrote: »

Downing at LB is ok maybe at home in the Europa Cup, or league cup.

Away to spurs in the league it was madness.

Downing imo has been the biggest let down of all the signings. He was supposed to be at his peak and was a solid player for Villa.

Tbh, I can't wait for him to leave the club albeit at a huge loss.

I'd agree with that. He actually looked alright, not spectacular but well capable in that final year at Villa and for various times before that for Boro. For that alone, I tried to put the fee to the back of my head somewhat once he was signed. Now he lacks purpose, a drive after his first half of competitive football for us (season opener vs Sunderland last year). Watch past clips of him, he's a shadow of his former self. Big fish in a small pond player or I've made it at a big name club, let's make a few € before returning home and finishing out my career mentality. Take your pick, but I think there it's a combination of both.

As I said a couple of weeks ago, if we got fifth or what we spent on him back, I'd be massively surprised

Nuri Sahin · 29-11-2012 02:00PM

MD1990 wrote: »

he wanted to keep Maxi & Bellamy but they left for personal reasons
Kuyt was very poor last year & i think he was gone by the time Rodgers was manager

Yup, people every now and again go on about Maxi and Bellamy (both were treated horribly when it came to starting minutes, more so the former than latter) and how it was Rodgers fault seemingly they weren't kept. Both players wanted to leave!

Kuyt was trickier. I think had we all known how much we'd fall on our arse in regards to getting a striker, Kuyt would and should have been kept.

LuckyLloyd · 29-11-2012 02:00PM

Melion wrote: »

You want Sterling rested, for who?

I don't care. His long term future is more important that winning individual games the rest of this season. He clearly needs a rest. So rest him.

Melion · 29-11-2012 02:01PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't care. His long term future is more important that winning individual games the rest of this season. He clearly needs a rest. So rest him.

So you want us to "punt" more matches now to give Sterling a rest?

Kess73 · 29-11-2012 02:02PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not saying Downing would be in my first eleven. But resting Sterling takes priority. I also have no idea what he's doing at left back?

Generally though, I called the signings as poor and have been largely proven correct on that score. But you can't dump players without sourcing alternatives.

Dumping Carroll left us too short on strikers.
Dumping Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy means you have to rotate Downing in up there

We had a very bad summer, future facing or not.

I think we had an underwhelming summer rather than a bad one. We brought in some of what we needed, but then fell short when it came to bringing in that bit of genuine quality we needed. I think that if we had finished the window by adding someone like Damiao (picked him because he was allegedly linked with us in the summer) to what we actually got then we would have been saying it was a decent to good window, and if we had added Damiao and a genuine box to box midfielder ( a more traditional CM if you like), then we would have been very happy with the window.

The summer before was a far worse one imho as it brought in many players who cost what genuine quality would cost in terms of transfer fee, yet turned out to be squad player level at best in most cases.

Actually if we go back yet another summer, the 2010 window, we get another window that flattered to deceive and that saw very little improvement if any as a whole.

The 2009 summer was a bit meh as well. Damn it really makes for pretty uninspiring reading when one starts to relook at each summer window since 2009. Hindsight is always a harsh judge. I know the net spend arguement can be used and all that, but when one looks at many of the big money signings (£15m and upwards) since then I think that only two have been what I would deem a success ( Suarez and Johnson) and one looks like he might do well (Allen).

As always it boils down to a lot of ifs, and what could have beens, but even taking into account the players who did leave the club during that period we really did waste a hell of a lot of the money we had on midtable quality players.

Maybe we should not be as surprised and outraged to find ourselves sitting firmly in midtable in 2012 when we have steadily worked towards that position through many of our signings.

Ardent · 29-11-2012 02:04PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't care. His long term future is more important that winning individual games the rest of this season. He clearly needs a rest. So rest him.

WTF? He is being rested, Rodgers is sparing him from mid-week action, like he would any other important player! He's a kid FFS, the more games he gets the better! I don't get this myth of professional players being tired, especially if they're only playing once a week!

Melion · 29-11-2012 02:05PM

Ive said it before. We havent had a good transfer window since the Summer of 2007.

5starpool · 29-11-2012 02:16PM

Melion wrote: »

So you want us to "punt" more matches now to give Sterling a rest?

Punt matches? Sterling hasn't been very good the last few games. Whether it's down to tiredness, or people copping on to him or whatever, he hasn't been undroppable. I'd have Suso playing more often, even give Assiadi a chance, push Gerrard up a bit (It's not like he is key in the midfield trio so I don't buy this he'll be pushed up when Lucas is back lark). The squad may be small enough, but it is not being rotated in the right areas. Allen needs to be given a kick up the backside as well lately.

I'm all for giving managers a couple of seasons to get things right, but that doesn't involve Liverpool finishing in the bottomn half of the table the first season while not trying to win any cups. If we are lucky enough to be in Europe after the Udinese game, and the next 7 matches don't go as well as we hope, then I'd like to see us playing first choice XI's pretty much in the cups post Christmas. If, in the unlikely scenario we are in the mix for 4th, that loses a bit of priority.

Chucky the tree · 29-11-2012 02:17PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

"Magnificent", "Outstanding", "Relentless" after a loss away at Spurs. Talk about them being the club to emulate. If you forget where you're supposed to be going you'll sure as hell never get there.

Any worse than what Kenny said after the losing at home to Arsenal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyHUyOrsmfw

"dominated" "brilliant" "by far the better side" "easily deserved 3 points". "they've come along way".

Benimar · 29-11-2012 02:17PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't care. His long term future is more important that winning individual games the rest of this season. He clearly needs a rest. So rest him.

And you will be one of the first to bitch and moan if we lose the game.

MD1990 · 29-11-2012 02:18PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't care. His long term future is more important that winning individual games the rest of this season. He clearly needs a rest. So rest him.

he will be monitered by the back room team
they will know by tracking his stats from each game if he is ok

MD1990 · 29-11-2012 02:18PM

15 forwards nominated for World XI: Aguero Balotelli Benzema Cavani Cristiano Drogba Eto'o Falcao Gomez Messi Neymar Roonay Suarez VanPersie

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Comments