The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

Devil's advocate here....

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

However, apart from me having no confidence in the opinions of a doctor who did not accept evolution

How does his/her acceptance (or lack of) of evolution prevent them from diagnosing you with a mild outbreak of contact dermatitis and prescribing you some hydrocortisone?

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

surely the whole point of teaching it is to learn about how the body has evolved over time. A good doctor understands the mechanics of human anatomy and the various degenerative processes that have occurred and are likely to occur in the future.

I think the best doctors probably do, but the best doctors are usually research-active and highly scientific. I'm not sure it's a baseline requirement for your local GP though.

doctoremma wrote: »

I went to an Uncaged Monkeys tour in Manchester last year, where Ben Goldacre and Brian Cox took audience questions. It was at a time when a group of students at Manchester University (both Brian Cox's and my host institute) had staged some kind of boycott of lessons about evolution. The university had threatened to fail them. The audience question was "Was that the right thing to do?"

Brian Cox was adamant that it was. Not simply because medics should accept evolution but also, anyone on a university course should attend the required course programme. Failure to attend = fail the course.

Surprisingly for the audience, Ben Goldacre disagreed. He asserted that he didn't feel it necessary for a medic to "accept" evolution, or even to learn about it. He painted medics (he himself one) as "technicians" who need to know about disease and how to treat it, although he suggested that it was helpful if they were interested in the science behind what they do.

I’d be terrified of going to a doctor that was a Creationist. And I'll explain why...

One of the most common ailments to afflict people, year in year out, is the common cold. All the symptoms we associate with having a cold are not actually the virus, but the bodies reaction to the virus. As a result its already well embedded before we even know that we are sick. So the question is why can’t doctors create a catch all treatment than prevents infection? Well the sheer number of variations of the cold virus. The fact that its constantly changing, adapting, evolving. What makes us sick this year, compared to next year, are only distant cousins.

A doctor that refuses to believe in evolution, that believes in intelligent design, essentially doesn’t understand, or accept, what a virus is.

To explain, a virus inserts its genetic material into the host to take over the host's functions. The new cell, now infected, continues to reproduce and so on, so forth. Its ability to spread depends completely on the makeup of the virus and they all spread differently, which is why they are so hard to stop. How the body deals with them is fairly standard, the immune system detects the infection and produces specific antibodies. These antibodies bind the virus, while the T cells destroy it. A simple system and one that remembers. So the next time that virus attacks, the body responds faster.

To put it another way, a virus needs hosts to survive and spread. We are those hosts. And our bodies are constantly reprogramming themselves to fight off viruses. Each time the virus hits us we get better at beating it. Logically there should come a time when when our bodies repeal the virus before it takes hold. Therefore the virus doesn't have a host and dies. Yet they survive, thrive and keep making us sick.

Why?

Because viruses evolve. What works spreads and spreads, while what doesn’t dies off. When something stops working, it adapts and the cycle continues. We keep getting sick.

Intelligent design does not allow for the evolving of viruses. Creationism does not allow for the evolving of viruses. But they exist. They thrive. They change. A creationist doctor is denying the existence of what they are trying to treat.

STAY AWAY FROM THEM!!!!!

K_user wrote: »

A creationist doctor is denying the existence of what they are trying to treat.

STAY AWAY FROM THEM!!!!!

Again, to be clear, I am playing devil's advocate

I don't accept your point. Creationists DO accept that species, from man to retrovirus, can change and evolve (they just don't evolve to be a different species blah blah). I see little from even most the most ardent creationists that things like antibiotic resistance in bugs doesn't happen. Thus, I see no barrier to a creationist doctor prescribing the most up-to-date antivirals or antibiotics.

Of course, that's assuming that any doctor has free reign over what they prescribe, rather than such things being mostly centrally-determined.

And, of course, assuming that you have some easy way if determining if your doctor is a creationist! Do you ask?

doctoremma wrote: »

Again, to be clear, I am playing devil's advocate

I don't accept your point. Creationists DO accept that species, from man to retrovirus, can change and evolve (they just don't evolve to be a different species blah blah). I see little from even most the most ardent creationists that things like antibiotic resistance in bugs doesn't happen. Thus, I see no barrier to a creationist doctor prescribing the most up-to-date antivirals or antibiotics.

Of course, that's assuming that any doctor has free reign over what they prescribe, rather than such things being mostly centrally-determined.

And, of course, assuming that you have some easy way if determining if your doctor is a creationist! Do you ask?

Well if I were to walk into a doctor’s office and see creationist documentation, such as posters or pamphlets, I’d leave. No questions asked.

Don’t get me wrong, I respect the right for people to believe what they want. I respect the right for people to believe in the almighty tree frog that rules the world. I believe that people can be straight, gay, or curious. It matters little if they are black, white, mixed, or green all over. I don’t care, live and let live.

However, I wouldn’t trust a Creationist doctor. No more than I trust a gardener that believes weeds appear simply because we have displeased the overlord. That’s my personal feelings on the matter.

As for viruses evolving, I can’t see how a creationist can believe in it. As I mentioned already the common cold that infects you today is only a distant cousin of what infected you last year. A virus evolves, changes, extremely quickly in relative terms. Go back 100 years and compare two strains to todays versions and they would look nothing alike. Go back 200 years and then compare. Go back 500 years and then compare.

Creationism talks about how God created organisms individually and that they are not genetically related. The common cold shows us how quickly things change and adapt, that two strains of the same virus today are completely different from two strains from 20 years ago, from 100 years ago and so on. Then logically speaking it proves that evolution exists going forward, so why deny that it has always existed?

The common cold, as a virus, also shows us how cells change depending on what is being fed to them. An infected cell, in a human body, acts very differently to a non-infected cell. Which proves how easily our entire system can/could/would change depending on what was happening in the environment around it. Again logically speaking, we naturally adapt, therefore we have always naturally adapted. Change has always been part of our makeup. Evolution is happening, has always happened and will continue to happen.

Just my two bits!

Masteroid wrote: »

Yes, I have had so many medical problems. If only I could find a vegetarian doctor, the only kind that could ever treat me effectively.

I'm vegetarian....