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Pregnant woman dies in UCHG after being refused a termination

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Comments

  • #752
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    Nonsense, I believe the woman who is the subject of this thread should have been allowed have a procedure in this state that saved her life without any politics or rubbish getting involved.

    Unfortunately politics is the EXACT reason that the woman in question didn't get the procedure to save her life.

    Hence why it needs to be dealt with by the people who legislate for this country. We've pretended for far too long that this isn't a real problem and now a woman has died because of our complacency and reluctance to rock the boat and offend the voters.


  • #753
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    robman60 wrote: »
    Wait, am I overlooking something here?

    Wasn't this ignorance of the law on the doctors part? As far as I know, this is from the doctor rules of practice:

    'In current obstetrical practice, rare complications can arise where therapeutic intervention (including termination of a pregnancy) is required at a stage when, due to extreme immaturity of the baby, there may be little or no hope of the baby surviving. In these exceptional circumstances, it may be necessary to intervene to terminate the pregnancy to protect the life of the mother, while making every effort to preserve the life of the baby.'

    Isn't this what's currently allowed? I think you guys may be missing this, but I'm pretty sure that's legally permitted. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Depends on how you define 'to protect the life of the mother" as opposed to her health; it may be argued that blood infection is not necessarily fatal.


  • #754
    Angie_Baby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 11 ✭Angie_Baby


    ZeRoY wrote: »
    But dont you know they are Pro Lif... oh no wait.

    this "discussion" ought to be shut.
    it's like an episode of Jerry Springer in here.


  • #755
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,744 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Min wrote: »
    She went to the hospital on the Sunday but did not receive any antibiotics until the Tuesday.

    Two days with what basically an open womb, it seems like the problem here is negligence rather than anything else.
    She didn't develop symptoms of septicaemia until Tuesday. It is not common for doctors to hand out antibiotics for things which the patient hasn't contracted yet. Had she been allowed a termination when she asked for one she may never have developed septicaemia, never have needed antibiotics, and would not have died.


  • #756
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    This is what Labour in this country want and this is what those in the United Left Alliance want, they want abortion on demand for any reason or no reason at all. A lot of people in this country, regardless of their religious persuasion, don't want to see that kind of service being offered in this country and have stated so in several referendums.

    What is your reason so? It better be rational seeing as you are so quick to slate others for it i.e not religious?


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  • #757
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    There is no difference in my opinion, not when you take out the people who agree that abortion is sometimes necessary to save a woman's life, as is the tragic case under discussion here. I agree with abortion being permitted where a woman's life is at risk (as was the case here or so it appears), but I do not agree that the idiots that occupy the left in this country should be allowed direct a debate with sane and rational people on this subject of abortion, about this apparent abundance of mothers out there who will commit suicide if they are not allowed have an abortion.

    This is what Labour in this country want and this is what those in the United Left Alliance want, they want abortion on demand for any reason or no reason at all. A lot of people in this country, regardless of their religious persuasion, don't want to see that kind of service being offered in this country and have stated so in several referendums.

    In saying that HellFire, you are mis-reading the vast majority of posters here.

    From what I can see... most posters would prefer there to be No abortion on demand.

    And I wouldn't be so sure regarding the labour party.
    Their members are not unanimous regarding abortion


  • #758
    Angie_Baby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 11 ✭Angie_Baby


    had this poor woman been back home in India do you think she would have been given an abortion?


  • #759
    otto_26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    seenitall wrote: »
    Already shown on-thread twice or three times, I lose track... but it means nothing to you, so I won't be engaging with you any more. Enjoy!

    You mean you got called and wanna do a runner!

    so I won't be engaging with you any more. Enjoy!


  • #760
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    ibarelycare wrote: »
    You've used this phrase at least twice in this thread. How on earth are those who support giving women a choice on what to do with their bodies "loo laa"? Yes, provision for this has been rejected by the country...20 years ago. Since then the country has become a lot more liberal, and people are rejecting the Catholic Church and its teachings and opinions in a steady stream.

    If people believe in something so strongly, why shouldn't they keep fighting for it?

    IMO it's the Youth Defence and staunch right wing fundies who are much more "loo laa" than anyone else.

    What has what happened to that poor woman got to do with the Catholic Church??? It has nothing to do with what happened her, she died because someone was clearly negligent while she was in their care, and either didn't understand their responsibilities to the patient or else did understand their responsibilities but failed to provide them. It's called professional negligence. What has that got to do with the church in this country???


  • #761
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    mud wrote: »
    Pro-Choice.

    Choice is the operative word.
    Yet interestingly it ignore the choice of 2 of the 3 people involved!

    Choice of the mother - check.
    Choice of the child - ehhh, well, it's not the point.
    Choice of the father - look lets be clear about this...

    "Choice" my arse.


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  • #762
    Angie_Baby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 11 ✭Angie_Baby


    otto_26 wrote: »
    You mean you got called and wanna do a runner!

    so I won't be engaging with you any more. Enjoy!

    i wont be engaging with either of you. Enjoy!


  • #763
    rossie1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,468 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    are we really that surprised, this is a country where a blasphemy law exists ffs and yet we try to paint ourselves as a progressive nation :rolleyes:

    if the doctor said "this is a catholic country" he or she should stand trial for manslaughter


  • #764
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    ash23 wrote: »
    Unfortunately politics is the EXACT reason that the woman in question didn't get the procedure to save her life.

    Hence why it needs to be dealt with by the people who legislate for this country. We've pretended for far too long that this isn't a real problem and now a woman has died because of our complacency and reluctance to rock the boat and offend the voters.

    So if the same situation presented itself tomorrow to a different medical professional, you reckon the same tragic outcome would be the only possible outcome?


  • #765
    joydivision
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 735 ✭✭✭joydivision


    I could be miles off but dont some hospitals have a policy to save the mother and some to save the baby . It was said to me a few times when choosing the hospital for the pregnancy by different people .
    " do they save the mother or the baby?"
    I never gave it much thought . Is there any grounds to this ?


  • #766
    otto_26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    poeticseraphim wrote: »
    It is the culture of fear in the HSE because the legislation is unclear and lacking the laws DID KILL HER.
    It is the legislation...it is lacking...it is not there ..'they have not gotten round to it'

    The fact thousands of medical interventions to save a mothers life have been done in Ireland without a problem. I find it hard to understand how legislation is the problem in this case?

    Shouldn't we be talking about the Doctor and why he didn't do his job properly considering thousands have been done before without a problem?


  • #767
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    HellFireClub wrote: »

    What has what happened to that poor woman got to do with the Catholic Church??? It has nothing to do with what happened her, she died because someone was clearly negligent while she was in their care, and either didn't understand their responsibilities to the patient or else did understand their responsibilities but failed to provide them. It's called professional negligence. What has that got to do with the church in this country???

    It influences laws that prevent the termination of an unviable pregnancy.


  • #768
    Angie_Baby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 11 ✭Angie_Baby


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    are we really that surprised, this is a country where a blasphemy law exists ffs and yet we try to paint ourselves as a progressive nation :rolleyes:

    if the doctor said "this is a catholic country" he or she should stand trial for manslaughter

    you're being totally hysterical now.


  • #769
    Dodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,739 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    This is what Labour in this country want and this is what those in the United Left Alliance want, they want abortion on demand for any reason or no reason at all. A lot of people in this country, regardless of their religious persuasion, don't want to see that kind of service being offered in this country and have stated so in several referendums.

    Here's Labour's leaflet on abortion from 2010;
    http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/its-time-to-legislate-for-the-x-case-leaflet-from-labour-2010/


  • #770
    robman60
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭robman60


    ZeRoY wrote: »
    What sort of mad statement is that. I do miss France sometimes. Retarded laws.

    Maybe you should educate yourself before saying things are "retarded". Health is removed as it creates a legal mind field and effectively means abortion on demand (I know some people support that I'm just explaining it if you're opposed to on demand).

    Contrary to popular belief, abortion on demand isn't actually legal in the UK, but instead on the basis of health. Introducing it on the basis of mental or physical health effectively means on demand.

    Also, I strongly disagree with those who say mental health is a legitimate ground for abortion. A Finnish study showed post-abortion suicide rate of 31.9/100,000 as opposed to 5.0/100,000 for those who gave birth. It seems counter-productive to me.


  • #771
    kieran26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 248 ✭✭kieran26


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    I have to say that i am ashamed to be Irish today. I hope whoever her doctor was is struck off at the very least. May she RIP.


    How do you know it was the doctors fault? its not for you to decide if a doctor should be struck off based on the few details that are available to us on the internet. Wait until after the investigation for such sentiments.


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  • #772
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    Angie_Baby wrote: »
    had this poor woman been back home in India do you think she would have been given an abortion?

    Absolutely. India has very liberal abortion laws. They attach more importance to the life of a woman than to a collection of cells.:cool:

    Read some of the reader comments at the end of this article. Several posters ask whey she didn't just fly home for an abortion, but we all know that she was in no condition to do so.

    http://www.deccanherald.com/content/291923/karnataka-woman-dies-being-refused.html


  • #773
    Angie_Baby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 11 ✭Angie_Baby


    we dont want abortion on demand.
    and we dont want this,


  • #774
    robman60
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭robman60


    otto_26 wrote: »
    The fact thousands of medical interventions to save a mothers life have been done in Ireland without a problem. I find it hard to understand how legislation is the problem in this case?

    Shouldn't we be talking about the Doctor and why he didn't do his job properly considering thousands have been done before without a problem?

    This is what the majority of the posters in this thread are missing, and the media refuse to present this fact. This was malpractice on the part of the doctor, or ignorance of the law on his part.


  • #775
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    I hope the HSE's got adequate insurance.


  • #776
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    They attach more importance to the life of a woman than to a collection of cells.:cool:
    Yawn, this trite bs, really?

    A woman is a collection of cells, so essentially your point boils down to "attaching more importance to a collection of cells than to a collection of cells". Simplistic boarding on retarded.


  • #777
    Angie_Baby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 11 ✭Angie_Baby


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Absolutely. India has very liberal abortion laws. They attach more importance to the life of a woman than to a collection of cells.:cool:

    Read some of the reader comments at the end of this article. Several posters ask whey she didn't just fly home for an abortion, but we all know that she was in no condition to do so.

    http://www.deccanherald.com/content/291923/karnataka-woman-dies-being-refused.html

    I dont think India is a good place to be a female (collection of cells).

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43155122/ns/health-childrens_health/t/million-girls-aborted-india-years/#.UKPQ8ofcmSo


  • #778
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    What has what happened to that poor woman got to do with the Catholic Church??? It has nothing to do with what happened her, she died because someone was clearly negligent while she was in their care, and either didn't understand their responsibilities to the patient or else did understand their responsibilities but failed to provide them. It's called professional negligence. What has that got to do with the church in this country???


    Or he got caught unaware of what definded that law.

    On a side note your use of the left as being somehow not mentaly sound is very childish and really takes away from how people view your opinion, you are coming of as a far right extremist with no respect for anyone that could be considered liberal, we all have our opinions here and you can disagree with whatever or whoever you wish but do it with some undertsanding that there is different voices out there and of the thought that when crisis happens its solution has always been found through people of all persuasions coming togeather.


  • #779
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    In saying that HellFire, you are mis-reading the vast majority of posters here.

    From what I can see... most posters would prefer there to be No abortion on demand.

    And I wouldn't be so sure regarding the labour party.
    Their members are not unanimous regarding abortion

    Well in fairness, this debate is a wider debate than this thread and I'm personally SICK of left wing slags in this country like the kind in the ULA, trying to ride roughshod over people who have stated a democratic opinion on this subject several times.

    I have to say, our current government must be absolutely loving this. We've spent the last 2 months having a completely unnecessary discussion and poorly timed discussion on a children's referendum... The polls were not 12 hours closed last Sunday when Eamon Gilmore started telling us that now we needed to talk about a referendum on gay marriage! And now this abortion topic is back centre stage again.

    Very convenient isn't it, the way we always seem to have something to occupy ourselves with in this country by way of the national conversation, besides the small little pressing matter of half a million people out of work, of tens of thousands emigrating out of the hopelessness that has now consumed this country at the moment, the hundreds of people and families every month falling further into food poverty.


  • #780
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    mhge wrote: »
    It influences laws that prevent the termination of an unviable pregnancy.

    What law exists that prevents the termination of a pregnancy in Ireland, viable or otherwise, where there is a risk to the life of the mother?


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  • #781
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    otto_26 wrote: »
    The fact thousands of medical interventions to save a mothers life have been done in Ireland without a problem. I find it hard to understand how legislation is the problem in this case?

    Shouldn't we be talking about the Doctor and why he didn't do his job properly considering thousands have been done before without a problem?

    Her life could have been saved twice.

    Once when it turned out that her pregnancy is not viable. Likely she would have walked out of the hospital on the following day. But the law does not allow to terminate such a pregnancy even if the foetus is not prognosed to survive.

    And again at the first signs of infection; she was made to suffer in order to wait for the vital signs to fade. It took a day but it could have taken more. Again it's not clear whether they would have been allowed by the law to terminate; was her life threatened or just her health?


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