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Speeding and Cowboy Cop

  • 07-11-2012 7:38pm
    #1
    Conn2012
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭


    ok.. So I was driving to Dublin today.. Tipping away nicely on the way up tbh :rolleyes:.. Seen a marked gardai car ahead so slowed down, kept the distance... ( fair distance now ) Thinkin if I stayed well behind didn`t over take.. ( thats a no no ) I would be fine..

    5 mins later they pull into the fast lane, with lights on and start to wave me into hard shoulder.. ( i was in slow lane )

    Out comes Gaurd... 'Do u know speed limit ?'..Me: 'Yes 120'... etc.. And tells me I was over, I replied 'I didn't tink so and this is company car first time driving it' etc.. He explains that he was speeding and slowing back down to see if i`d catch up with him.. ( from threads here I see this is totally legal for him on duty to go over limit - didnt know that.. thought they had to hav on the blues or siren on for this )

    Takes my companies my details and tells me hes gonna report me for 'driving without care'.. Because wait for it.. 'I didnt know what speed I was doing twice', the twice is when he sped up and slowed down btw..

    Can he do this ? He needs me on cam to clock my speed for speeding offence right?
    And for the careless driving ? How can he prove I didn't know what speed I was doing if he can't clock me and prove me wrong that I was over?

    So I`ve been checking on citizens info site... The offence is fairly serious a mandatory court appearance - has 5 points and up to 1,500eur...

    A bit much ??? :eek:
    Tagged:


«13

Comments

  • #2
    finnegan101
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭finnegan101


    Conn2012 wrote: »
    ok.. So I was driving to Dublin today.. Tipping away nicely on the way up tbh :rolleyes:.. Seen a marked gardai car ahead so slowed down, kept the distance... ( fair distance now ) Thinkin if I stayed well behind didn`t over take.. ( thats a no no ) I would be fine..

    5 mins later they pull into the fast lane, with lights on and start to wave me into hard shoulder.. ( i was in slow lane )

    Out comes Gaurd... 'Do u know speed limit ?'..Me: 'Yes 120'... etc.. And tells me I was over, I replied 'I didn't tink so and this is company car first time driving it' etc.. He explains that he was speeding and slowing back down to see if i`d catch up with him.. ( from threads here I see this is totally legal for him on duty to go over limit - didnt know that.. thought they had to hav on the blues or siren on for this )

    Takes my companies my details and tells me hes gonna report me for 'driving without care'.. Because wait for it.. 'I didnt know what speed I was doing twice', the twice is when he sped up and slowed down btw..

    Can he do this ? He needs me on cam to clock my speed for speeding offence right?
    And for the careless driving ? How can he prove I didn't know what speed I was doing if he can't clock me and prove me wrong that I was over?

    So I`ve been checking on citizens info site... The offence is fairly serious a mandatory court appearance - has 5 points and up to 1,500eur...

    A bit much ??? :eek:

    hmmm did you get reg of his car.... think someone may have witnessed a crazy car speeding up and slowing down for no reason on that very stretch of road ;-)
    reading between the lines......
    you were catching up with him when he slowed down!! makes sense... no worries there id say .....

    may be you you didnt know what speed you were doing.... but because of the speed limitor in your car you know you were not going over the limit !!!


  • #3
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Conn2012 wrote: »
    Can he do this ? He needs me on cam to clock my speed for speeding offence right?
    And for the careless driving ? How can he prove I didn't know what speed I was doing if he can't clock me and prove me wrong that I was over?

    So I`ve been checking on citizens info site... The offence is fairly serious a mandatory court appearance - has 5 points and up to 1,500eur...

    A bit much ??? :eek:

    He can send you a summons alright, but it's going to be very interesting to see how he plans to achieve a conviction.

    Did the Garda know your speed?

    Did he have a second Garda with him in the car who could verify your speed?

    If he sends you a summons, find a solicitor who does district court defence work and get advice.


  • #4
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,196 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Something not right with this opening post.
    How could someone driving in front of you know your exact speed which he would have to prove in a court? I can't even believe that this happened at all.


  • #5
    finnegan101
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭finnegan101


    think sometimes they take a chance that you will admit it... and pay up...


  • #6
    Conn2012
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Conn2012


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Something not right with this opening post.
    How could someone driving in front of you know your exact speed which he would have to prove in a court? I can't even believe that this happened at all.


    Exactly wat I was thinking??? It's absolutely how it happened above.. I was over, but how can he really prove it?


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  • #7
    Conn2012
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Conn2012


    The Mustard wrote: »

    He can send you a summons alright, but it's going to be very interesting to see how he plans to achieve a conviction.

    Did the Garda know your speed?

    Did he have a second Garda with him in the car who could verify your speed?

    If he sends you a summons, find a solicitor who does district court defence work and get advice.

    He said that he was doing up to 160 down to 120 and he wasn't pullin away from me.. 'That I was maintaining the same distance'

    There was another person in passenger seat- I jus seen the hand wavin me into hard shoulder, I'd assume another Garda..


  • #8
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Conn2012 wrote: »
    He said that he was doing up to 160 down to 120 and he wasn't pullin away from me.. 'That I was maintaining the same distance'

    There was another person in passenger seat- I jus seen the hand wavin me into hard shoulder, I'd assume another Garda..

    So it seems as though there were two Gardai, at least one of whom is willing to give evidence that you were travelling in excess of the speed limit.

    That puts a different slant on things.

    Still, the advice is the same. Go to a solicitor if you get a summons.


  • #9
    Harry Bosch.
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Harry Bosch.


    If it was a unmarked traffic car it could have a forward facing camera near the windscreen that can be rotated backwards to record and photograph you, or if it has ANPR it will have a rearward facing camera. He could have it all on tape, your speed and the driving without due care. I was stopped for going a tad fast by the lads in traffic while they where in front of me, all caught on camera. They were sound and just had a chat..


  • #10
    Conn2012
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Conn2012


    The Mustard wrote: »

    So it seems as though there were two Gardai, at least one of whom is willing to give evidence that you were travelling in excess of the speed limit.

    That puts a different slant on things.

    Still, the advice is the same. Go to a solicitor if you get a summons.

    Yes two, but they need to clock me on a peice of equipment surely.. And by that a speed gun or cam? Fair enough if they were behind me and clocked me at a consistent speed.. ?


  • #11
    Conn2012
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Conn2012


    Harry Bosch. wrote: »
    If it was a unmarked traffic car it could have a forward facing camera near the windscreen that can be rotated backwards to record and photograph you, or if it has ANPR it will have a rearward facing camera. He could have it all on tape, your speed and the driving without due care. I was stopped for going a tad fast by the lads in traffic while they where in front of me, all caught on camera. They were sound and just had a chat..

    It was a marked car.. Not traffic corps though.. Jus the local lads ( u know from the car ) sounded from tip? - But I know they can be placed anywhere in country


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  • #12
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,196 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Conn2012 wrote: »
    Exactly wat I was thinking??? It's absolutely how it happened above.. I was over, but how can he really prove it?

    He can't prove it in court. If he had equipment then he would have showed it to you. It was just a lad on a wee ego-trip i'd say so you will hardly hear anymore about it. No need to go to a solicitor unless you get a summons, which you won't.


  • #13
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Did you keep to the speed limit or keep to the speed of the Garda car?

    If he had ANPR he can measure your speed over distances using the handset, ie from bridge to bridge or lamp post to lamp post.

    Many marked and unmarked garda cars have ANPR.


  • #14
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    What speed were you doing?


  • #15
    Leo Demidov
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Leo Demidov


    goldie fish wrote: »
    What speed were you doing?
    Worth a shot :-Q


  • #16
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Conn2012 wrote: »
    Takes my companies my details and tells me hes gonna report me for 'driving without care'.. Because wait for it.. 'I didnt know what speed I was doing twice', the twice is when he sped up and slowed down btw..

    eek:
    From your post it appears you are not getting a ticket for speeding. He is or may be charging you with not paying
    Attention , this is pretty obvious as you are gauging your speed by the distance to him. At all times you should know the speed you are doing otherwise your not really in control.


  • #17
    im invisible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭im invisible


    Zambia wrote: »
    At all times you should know the speed you are doing otherwise your not really in control.
    ah now, thats hardly right?


  • #18
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    im invisible wrote: »
    ah now, thats hardly right?
    It is if your on a motorway or anywhere that has a speed limit


  • #19
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    tayto lover wrote: »

    He can't prove it in court. If he had equipment then he would have showed it to you. It was just a lad on a wee ego-trip i'd say so you will hardly hear anymore about it. No need to go to a solicitor unless you get a summons, which you won't.

    Why can't he prove it in court?


  • #20
    wicklaman83
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭wicklaman83


    MagicSean wrote: »

    Why can't he prove it in court?

    If he was using his own odometer to gauge the OPs speed,he will have no physical proof. Therefore he cant prove it happened so he'll just have to give his word that it happened


  • #21
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    wicklaman83 wrote: »
    If he was using his own odometer to gauge the OPs speed,he will have no physical proof. Therefore he cant prove it happened so he'll just have to give his word that it happened

    You mean he would have trouble supporting it. Testimony can be proof in itself.


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  • #22
    wicklaman83
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭wicklaman83


    MagicSean wrote: »

    You mean he would have trouble supporting it. Testimony can be proof in
    itself.


    No no. I mean he cant prove it. How can word of mouth be proof.

    If my house got broken in to and i seen someone in my yard but not my house and tell the guards this,they wont arrest the person on my say so. They will look for proof.

    The guard seen the OP driving fast but has no proof


  • #23
    pa990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭pa990


    wicklaman83 wrote: »
    No no. I mean he cant prove it. How can word of mouth be proof.

    If my house got broken in to and i seen someone in my yard but not my house and tell the guards this,they wont arrest the person on my say so. They will look for proof.

    The guard seen the OP driving fast but has no proof

    Ehhhh.. Direct evidence.. The Guard saw it happen.
    Proof can be what someone witnessed, remember, the legal system operated long before camera's and videos etc

    The Judge listens to both sides, spoken evidence or otherwise and makes his decision on that.


  • #24
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    wicklaman83 wrote: »
    No no. I mean he cant prove it. How can word of mouth be proof.

    If my house got broken in to and i seen someone in my yard but not my house and tell the guards this,they wont arrest the person on my say so. They will look for proof.

    The guard seen the OP driving fast but has no proof

    Yes his testimony is proof. As is the testimony of his passenger. Not sure why you are having difficulty understanding it.


  • #25
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    MagicSean wrote: »

    Yes his testimony is proof. As is the testimony of his passenger. Not sure why you are having difficulty understanding it.
    A lot of people think if its not on video well it just didn't happen.


  • #26
    wicklaman83
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭wicklaman83


    MagicSean wrote: »

    Yes his testimony is proof. As is the testimony of his passenger. Not sure why you are having difficulty understanding it.
    The OP said the guard had no proof. I think he is right. Just because the guards say they seen something doesnt mean it did.

    If we go by your basis there was a mis-carraige of justice in waterford. Did the 3/4 guards not get convicted for assault yet they gave testimony that they were not involved.

    They were convicted because there was proof.


  • #27
    savagecabbages
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭savagecabbages


    The OP also implied that he/she was breaking the speed limit.


  • #28
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,196 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Why can't he prove it in court?

    If he had no equipment then he can't prove it.
    If they have equipment they always show you you're speed.


  • #29
    Conn2012
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Conn2012


    Turner wrote: »
    Did you keep to the speed limit or keep to the speed of the Garda car?

    If he had ANPR he can measure your speed over distances using the handset, ie from bridge to bridge or lamp post to lamp post.

    Many marked and unmarked garda cars have ANPR.

    I was over alrite, he said sumtin about 'opdometer in back of his car'? But if he'd could clock me over - he'd done me for speeding? I was on motorway and fair distance behind - so very little to measure from.. Even at that, if he could its not really 'evidence' in court is it?


  • #30
    Conn2012
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Conn2012


    goldie fish wrote: »
    What speed were you doing?

    Between 120 -160.. When I seem d cop car..


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  • #31
    Conn2012
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Conn2012


    Zambia wrote: »
    From your post it appears you are not getting a ticket for speeding. He is or may be charging you with not paying
    Attention , this is pretty obvious as you are gauging your speed by the distance to him. At all times you should know the speed you are doing otherwise your not really in control.

    I did know my speed at all times.. I told him 120.. He says I was over.. And because he says I was over = I didn't know my speed!

    But his evidence as far as I can see is his opinion?? While being in car a distance ahead - speedin up and slowin down.. ?


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