Is it time for Pat to go?

Leroy42 · 25-10-2012 01:23PM

morana wrote: »

I think it would fall outside of the standing orders of the AGM! a discussion could be held.

If people wanted to specifically put a motion which would direct the board of CI going forward there is provision for this in the Tech Regs. This is namely the calling of an EGM.

Buffalo,

See Morana answer to a point about this being raised a the AGM above. That is why I wouldn't bother to go along. It is not on the agenda so we can't fit it in.

All that will happen is a discussion, after which a proposal for a EGM might be put forward, at some later date. Christ on a bike. Do CI not see the need for a decision on this.

CI have, by dint of Pat being from Ireland, a unique ability to make a direct impact on the future of the UCI, a direct impact on the future of our entire sport. What are they going to do? Well, they might think about having a discussion. Brings back the memories of Father Ted and the Milkfloat episode 'we can say another Mass'.

We probably will never have this opportunity again. How about the board bring something forward. How about they actually deal with reality of the sh1tfest going on around us and deal with it rather than wait for someone else to do it. A board is meant to lead, you know show leadership. Take a stand Morana (and other board members, I only mention Morana as he is on this thread), tell the AGM that all the other stuff on the agenda is pointless, as if this farce continues you guys won't have a sport to govern. You can talk all you want about club racing, track cycling etc, but if cycling continues on the way it is there will be a significant fall off in kids coming through. What parent (apart from cyclists) will think that cycling is a good sport for little John or Mary to get involved in?

Do I need to go down to raise this issue at the AGM? I would have thought that any right thinking delegate would already been covering this. Will the club delegates be bringing it up, maybe the individual clubs should demand that their delegate brings it up. I am not going to travel down to Tipp on the off chance that the board will invite me to speak! Any board member/delegate can see/hear the laughing stock that UCI and Pat McQuaid have become. Hell even Andrew is now calling Lemond a doper. Pat is calling others Scumbags. IS this really what we want?

Standing Orders for 2012 Cycling Ireland AGM
Only club delegates and persons invited by the Chairman may address the meeting.

ktz84 · 25-10-2012 01:32PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Buffalo,

See Morana answer to a point about this being raised a the AGM above. That is why I wouldn't bother to go along. It is not on the agenda so we can't fit it in.

All that will happen is a discussion, after which a proposal for a EGM might be put forward, at some later date. Christ on a bike. Do CI not see the need for a decision on this.

CI have, by dint of Pat being from Ireland, a unique ability to make a direct impact on the future of the UCI, a direct impact on the future of our entire sport. What are they going to do? Well, they might think about having a discussion. Brings back the memories of Father Ted and the Milkfloat episode 'we can say another Mass'.

We probably will never have this opportunity again. How about the board bring something forward. How about they actually deal with reality of the sh1tfest going on around us and deal with it rather than wait for someone else to do it. A board is meant to lead, you know show leadership. Take a stand Morana (and other board members, I only mention Morana as he is on this thread), tell the AGM that all the other stuff on the agenda is pointless, as if this farce continues you guys won't have a sport to govern. You can talk all you want about club racing, track cycling etc, but if cycling continues on the way it is there will be a significant fall off in kids coming through. What parent (apart from cyclists) will think that cycling is a good sport for little John or Mary to get involved in?

Do I need to go down to raise this issue at the AGM? I would have thought that any right thinking delegate would already been covering this. Will the club delgates be bringing it up, maybe the individual clubs should demand that their delegate brings it up.

Do I take it from that you are not in a club? If so then you may as well stay at home as you have no voice so far as CI is concerned though they are quite happy to collect your subscription

Leroy42 · 25-10-2012 01:37PM

KTZ84, I am in a club, but am not a club delegate so agree that it wold be pointless to go. Have a look a the agenda on the CI website. The main points seems to be number of baord members and one day licences. That may well have been important before all this happened, but to simply go through the agenda sheet with no regard ti reality is laughable. I understand that these thing have to be run by the rules & regs, but CI need to stand up and be heard on this issue.

But this thread is not about me or even about clubs. It's questioning whether Pat McQuaid should go and so far the overwhelming majority on thread seems to feel he should go.

buffalo · 25-10-2012 01:40PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Buffalo,

See Morana answer to a point about this being raised a the AGM above. That is why I wouldn't bother to go along. It is not on the agenda so we can't fit it in.

All that will happen is a discussion, after which a proposal for a EGM might be put forward, at some later date. Christ on a bike. Do CI not see the need for a decision on this.

AGMs are a legal requirement of organisations such as CI, and as such, have many rules. I've not attended a CI one, but I have been at similar ones of other mostly voluntary organisations. How many members do CI have? That's a lot of people who could demand to have their say. There'd be chaos if things could be raised willy-nilly, that's why there's a constitution, and several advance notices that the AGM was taking place. If people did not add a motion at that time, well, that's a pity. But that's what the notices are for.

As morana pointed out, there's potential for an EGM in these circumstances, but again, somebody has to push for that. Why not you?

Leroy42 wrote: »

Do I need to go down to raise this issue at the AGM? I would have thought that any right thinking delegate would already been covering this. Will the club delgates be bringing it up, maybe the individual clubs should demand that their delegate brings it up.

So you're not going to go along to contribute to the discussion? Have/will you ask your club delegate to raise the matter on your behalf? If you don't do either of those, I sincerely hope afterwards you won't complain that CI are ignoring you and your needs.

Beasty · 25-10-2012 01:44PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

KTZ84, I am in a club, but am not a club delegate so agree that it wold be pointless to go.

Have you asked your club to nominate you as a delegate? I did and they did ...

marienbad · 25-10-2012 01:48PM

Just contributed my third $20.00 donation to the Kimmage fund and I am just an interested spectator as regards cycling . But the fight against doping is the fight for the soul of all sport and this is the front line.

I am surprised and dismayed that the fund is now only at 75k ! He will need a lot more that that to fight his corner.

Are Pat and Co suing him as individuals or as the UCI ? That would give us an idea of how deep their pockets are.

Beasty · 25-10-2012 01:55PM

buffalo wrote: »

As morana pointed out, there's potential for an EGM in these circumstances, but again, somebody has to push for that. Why not you?.

I have a feeling that the discussions taking place here is helping the case for an EGM. Fair enough, a lot of people who voted are (most probably) not in CI, but the vote shows a general sentiment amongst the general public who have an interest in Cycling which, from my own discussions, is not untypical of the views expressed by many members of CI

There is a formal way for the members (via the clubs) to get an EGM called, but that is very cumbersome. The Board should listen to their members (some of whom they know are posting here) and give them opportunity to openly discuss the current situation, and vote on whether McQuaid should be nominated for re-election. This is too important a decision for the Board to take (either in the positive or negative) without proper consultatoion with the membership. The Board have the power to call an EGM and should indicate their intention to do so

If, given the current situation, the Board decide to nominate McQuaid without giving their members a say, they will lose a serious amount of credibility.

Leroy42 · 25-10-2012 02:01PM

I fully agree with you Buffalo, you can't have a free for all. In normal circumstances it is up to a person to send in an agenda point by a cut off date. Any other way would either be chaos, or infinitely long meetings.

However, this is not a normal situation. We have at the moment the single biggest story in cycling, the single biggest scandal and a unique opportunity for CI to actually take a meaningful stand. Why is it not on the agenda? because the UCI decision etc happened too late. Should we wait until next year to actually say something on the matter.

The rest of the world is talking about this, but because of an agenda we, the very people involved in the sport, can't.

I have no idea who my club delegate is (I'm with Orwell) but are you seriously trying to tell me that club delegates are just going to sit there and let this pass? What about other clubs? Hell, what about Morana, he is a board member, what's his take? If you know who it is then by all means PM me and I will drop them a mail etc.

Do CI really need a meeting to decide which way to go on this? Are they really waiting for some club delegate to raise his hand and mention that maybe there is something not quite right with the sport?

At the end of the day, this won't really effect me on way or another. My life isn't going to change. I'm not going to stop cycling. But I was hoping that in years to come my kids wouldn't be laughed at for taking up cycling, wouldn't be shouted out by drivers etc. This is where we can draw a line. This is where we can say that we, CI, do not accept the UCI as running cycling in the manner it is, and we want things to change. Maybe by making those changes we can see cycling before stronger.

Just seeing Beasty posts, a great idea. Why don't CI just announce a seperate EGM dealing specifically with this issue. My point has been all along that CI seem to be hiding behind procedures to avoid it. This gets around the legal issues with the agenda, while also showing at least some leadership.

Casati · 25-10-2012 02:02PM

buffalo wrote: »

AGMs are a legal requirement of organisations such as CI, and as such, have many rules. I've not attended a CI one, but I have been at similar ones of other mostly voluntary organisations. How many members do CI have? That's a lot of people who could demand to have their say. There'd be chaos if things could be raised willy-nilly, that's why there's a constitution, and several advance notices that the AGM was taking place. If people did not add a motion at that time, well, that's a pity. But that's what the notices are for.

As morana pointed out, there's potential for an EGM in these circumstances, but again, somebody has to push for that. Why not you?

So you're not going to go along to contribute to the discussion? Have/will you ask your club delegate to raise the matter on your behalf? If you don't do either of those, I sincerely hope afterwards you won't complain that CI are ignoring you and your needs.

Remember lads CI have already made clear their views with the comments made by the CEO Geoff Liffey in the Sunday Business Post defending Pat McQuaid.

morana · 25-10-2012 02:08PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

KTZ84, I am in a club, but am not a club delegate so agree that it wold be pointless to go. Have a look a the agenda on the CI website. The main points seems to be number of baord members and one day licences. That may well have been important before all this happened, but to simply go through the agenda sheet with no regard ti reality is laughable. I understand that these thing have to be run by the rules & regs, but CI need to stand up and be heard on this issue.

But this thread is not about me or even about clubs. It's questioning whether Pat McQuaid should go and so far the overwhelming majority on thread seems to feel he should go.

We cant win with you! You want change but wont come along and participate. As much as I like boards and the members here it wont dictate our policies or how we approach any issue. You have a proxy at board level and we do listen. Come down shout, disrupt the meeting, bring bikes and banners whatever you want and make your feelings known.

If you want an EGM there is 2 ways to do this afaik. the board can call one if a majority of the board feel its necessary or 10% of clubs call for it. What I suggest to you is to secure 30 clubs vote for an egm and we will have one with a very simple question.

morana · 25-10-2012 02:28PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

I Hell, what about Morana, he is a board member, what's his take? If you know who it is then by all means PM me and I will drop them a mail etc.

My friend you are having laugh !

Thats my name Moran A(nto) my phone number and mail are on CI site.

buffalo · 25-10-2012 02:38PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

I have no idea who my club delegate is (I'm with Orwell) but are you seriously trying to tell me that club delegates are just going to sit there and let this pass?

The board shouldn't be acting off the bat, on a contentious issue such as this they need to consult the membership, via AGM/EGM.

As an Orwell member, http://www.orwellwheelers.org/forum/8-miscellaneous-club-chatter/3912-cycling-ireland-agm-3rd-november-2012.html would be a good place to state your feelings.

edit: I see Dave is asking if anyone would like to be a delegate...

Leroy42 · 25-10-2012 02:42PM

Morana, it isn't about winning. We all know how these AGM's go (not just CI but all of them). I have been at enough to know that most of them are a waste of time, in as much as a certain amount of 'legal' stuff needs to be done and the real issues are usually only a side issue, due in the main to the rules & regs that must be followed.

You know there is an issue, the whole world knows there is an issue. I'm not having a go at CI for the procedures, I understand the requirement. I will contact my club secretary and see what the club delegate is planning to do. If they are going to follow it up then I'll let them at it, I don't see the need to create a distraction, shout abuse etc. I am one person, this is my view on McQuaid but that doesn't mean that everybody, or indeed anybody, needs to agree with me.

morana · 25-10-2012 02:51PM

buffalo wrote: »

The board shouldn't be acting off the bat, on a contentious issue such as this they need to consult the membership, via AGM/EGM.

As an Orwell member, http://www.orwellwheelers.org/forum/8-miscellaneous-club-chatter/3912-cycling-ireland-agm-3rd-november-2012.html would be a good place to state your feelings.

edit: I see Dave is asking if anyone would like to be a delegate...

there you go Leroy you have 5 delegates get on board!

morana · 25-10-2012 02:51PM

ktz84 wrote: »

Do I take it from that you are not in a club? If so then you may as well stay at home as you have no voice so far as CI is concerned though they are quite happy to collect your subscription

and thats a load of crap as well!

Leroy42 · 25-10-2012 02:52PM

buffalo wrote: »

The board shouldn't be acting off the bat, on a contentious issue such as this they need to consult the membership, via AGM/EGM.

As an Orwell member, http://www.orwellwheelers.org/forum/8-miscellaneous-club-chatter/3912-cycling-ireland-agm-3rd-november-2012.html would be a good place to state your feelings.

edit: I see Dave is asking if anyone would like to be a delegate...

Did the Chariman consult the membership before giving his opinion to the SBP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leroy42
I Hell, what about Morana, he is a board member, what's his take? If you know who it is then by all means PM me and I will drop them a mail etc.
My friend you are having laugh !

Thats my name Moran A(nto) my phone number and mail are on CI site.

I think you misread my post Morana (or maybe I wasn't clear). I was asking who the Orwell delegate was, not who were. I was asking your take on the subject.

buffalo · 25-10-2012 02:56PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Did the Chariman consult the membership before giving his opinion to the SBP?

You can raise that too.

imo he's entitled to his opinion, as long as he doesn't abuse his power as chairman to support that opinion. I didn't see the article, so I don't know if he spoke in a personal capacity or if he claimed this was the official position of CI. Either way, it's your duty as a delegate to make the feelings of the club known.

ktz84 · 25-10-2012 03:20PM

morana wrote: »

and thats a load of crap as well!

So unattached have voting rights then

If you can't vote what real say do you have!!!

Trojan · 25-10-2012 04:02PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Morana, it isn't about winning. We all know how these AGM's go (not just CI but all of them). I have been at enough to know that most of them are a waste of time, in as much as a certain amount of 'legal' stuff needs to be done and the real issues are usually only a side issue, due in the main to the rules & regs that must be followed.

Much as I want to see McQuaid out and the UCI razed to the ground (figuratively), the CI must follow the rules 100% in anything they do in relation to this for two reasons:

1) If they don't it leaves a technicality for McQuaid to challenge it, but more importantly...
2) ... It would be complete hypocrisy to want to see McQuaid out on the basis of corruption while not following the correct procedures themselves.

The thing I would like them to know is what a ground-swell of support there is for them to take action, and for guys like Anto to talk to his peers and the chairman and tell them how badly people want change so that they're willing to put their heads above the parapet on this issue because they know that the CI membership has their back.

Chips Lovell · 25-10-2012 04:07PM

I'll be going too. My club has given me a delegate slot. I intend to speak on the matter.

Lusk Doyle · 25-10-2012 04:15PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I'll be going too. My club has given me a delegate slot. I intend to speak on the matter.

Hopefully that will be delivered better than a recent written piece :pac:

Chips Lovell · 25-10-2012 04:16PM

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Hopefully that will be delivered better than a recent written piece :pac:

I eagerly await your next written opus.

morana · 25-10-2012 06:39PM

ktz84 wrote: »

So unattached have voting rights then If you can't vote what real say do you have!!!

no that we only take your money!
join a club and you can vote to your hearts content as well as promote the odd race/leisure event as well

Lusk Doyle · 25-10-2012 06:49PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I eagerly await your next written opus.

I can't write music. I'm a real artist so I play by feeling!

Lusk Doyle · 25-10-2012 07:01PM

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/open-letter-lemond-demands-mcquaids-resignation

Excellent.

Mycroft H · 25-10-2012 07:11PM

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/open-letter-lemond-demands-mcquaids-resignation

Excellent.

"You are the epitome of the word corruption" alleges former Tour winner

Are they going to sue Greg LeMonde too I wonder....

drogdub · 25-10-2012 07:25PM

petethedrummer wrote: »

The Velocast lads having a good go at everyone...

http://velocastcc.squarespace.com/race-radio/2012/10/24/all-change-at-the-top.html

Scotts ranting was epic but made alot of sense, was dissapointed they didn't mention Taylor Phinney's words here http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13076/Taylor-Phinney-Interview-Getting-the-pill-culture-out-of-the-sport.aspx

The riders need to be encouraged to talk more like this.

Pete do you think you will pay for the new stuff next year. I think I will.

petethedrummer · 25-10-2012 07:43PM

drogdub wrote: »

Pete do you think you will pay for the new stuff next year. I think I will.

yeah, I like the Velocast alot.

Flandria · 25-10-2012 08:08PM

petethedrummer wrote: »

yeah, I like the Velocast alot.

+1

happytramp · 25-10-2012 08:09PM

Nico on Newstalk in a few minutes. His agent, one 'Andrew McQuaid' accused Greg le Monde of doping on twitter earlier!!! Jaysus.

Is it time for Pat to go?

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