Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

1…3940424445…232

Comments

  • #1232
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    But how many chocolate kettles created the world?

    By poring out existence from its gooey spout

    How can a figment of your imagination create the world?


  • #1233
    Jan Hus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭Jan Hus


    Sin City wrote: »
    Myself and my siblings were brought into existence by the same creators, our mam and dad

    Therefore you are indistinct from them I take it?


  • #1234
    Jan Hus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭Jan Hus


    Sin City wrote: »
    By poring out existence from its gooey spout

    How can a figment of your imagination create the world?

    You are getting it the wrong way round. God in his incredible imagination created the universe.


  • #1235
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    You are getting it the wrong way round. God in his incredible imagination created the universe.

    And you have the testable proof to back this up I take it or are you just guessing?


  • #1236
    systemsready
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 297 ✭✭systemsready


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    So the orthodox decide who can be Jewish, not god? Wow, the god you believe is so unbelievably restricted by external rules.

    Well, ask any catholic , he will tell u the same. A gentile is a gentile and a jew is a jew.

    By the way Gentile just means; pagan, or heathen, or unbeliever.
    Someone who has no religion, an uncircumcised who eats anything and sleeps with anything.

    gen·tile (jntl)
    n. often Gentile
    1. A person who is not Jewish.
    2. Archaic A pagan or heathen.
    3. Mormon Church A non-Mormon.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gentile


  • Advertisement
  • #1237
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    systemsready wrote: »
    Lelantos wrote: »
    No, I have science, I have the evidence in fossils, I have enough intellect to understand the evolution of our species. It is a subject that has fascinated me since I saw Jacob Bronowski's Ascent of Man in the 70's. As I said, it is up to you to believe what you will, it still doesn't change the evidence or truth.


    No one can tell you TRUTH...you have to determine it yourself...and you are failing to do that
    So by your logic, I have to determine the truth by myself, when I prove it to be true, beyond a shadow of doubt, and then tell you, it no longer is the truth because you didn't determine it by yourself!


  • #1238
    Jan Hus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭Jan Hus


    Sin City wrote: »
    And you have the testable proof to back this up I take it or are you just guessing?

    I know by faith. In any case do you have testable proof and are absolutely 100% sure He didn't? In maths you can prove something with that degree of certainty - not in science.


  • #1239
    systemsready
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 297 ✭✭systemsready


    Lelantos wrote: »
    So by your logic, I have to determine the truth by myself, when I prove it to be true, beyond a shadow of doubt, and then tell you, it no longer is the truth because you didn't determine it by yourself!

    It remains the truth to you, and until I test it with reason or experience it will remain something 'that I heard in a pub one Friday night'.


  • #1240
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    I know by faith. In any case do you have testable proof and are absolutely 100% sure He didn't? In maths you can prove something with that degree of certainty - not in science.

    Faith, does not prove anything.

    I have faith that Ireland are going to beat Germany tonight
    Doesnt mean Im right. (Though hopefully I am)

    As for maths, that just it, you can prove something with a degree of certainty, you cant do that in religion


  • #1241
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    Acknowledging this why do you insist on testability?
    What we can test what we should. What we can't test we can't. Simple enough.


  • Advertisement
  • #1242
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    Because Dualism while (as CS Lewis described it) manly is untrue. Looking at the world how can you acknowledge there are two deities fighting? By the way is this supposed to be a pun on Neizche
    But you can just believe in Zoraster on his own. Or you can believe in a Pantheon. There is equal support for these positions.


  • #1243
    Jan Hus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭Jan Hus


    Sin City wrote: »
    Faith, does not prove anything.

    I have faith that Ireland are going to beat Germany tonight
    Doesnt mean Im right. (Though hopefully I am)

    As for maths, that just it, you can prove something with a degree of certainty, you cant do that in religion

    And you can't do it in science either. How do you know your senses are not deceiving you. Dawkins himself said that the universe not only probably weirder than we know, but weirder than we can suppose. Why hasn't his prophecy come true long ago. Why are our brains much more advanced than we need - because we are created.


  • #1244
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    systemsready wrote: »
    Well, ask any catholic , he will tell u the same. A gentile is a gentile and a jew is a jew.

    By the way Gentile just means; pagan, or heathen, or unbeliever.
    Someone who has no religion, an uncircumcised who eats anything and sleeps with anything.

    gen·tile (jntl)
    n. often Gentile
    1. A person who is not Jewish.
    2. Archaic A pagan or heathen.
    3. Mormon Church A non-Mormon.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gentile
    So now you are just a pagan who does not eat pigs? :confused:


  • #1245
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    I know by faith. In any case do you have testable proof and are absolutely 100% sure He didn't? In maths you can prove something with that degree of certainty - not in science.
    Can you prove it wasn't created by a chocolate teapot? No, you can't. So that's not an argument that is helpful for your position.


  • #1246
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    Why are our brains much more advanced than we need - because we are created.
    They are so much more advanced than we need that 99.9% of people struggle to understand basic elements of our existence like the theory of relativity and astrophysics.


  • #1247
    Jan Hus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭Jan Hus


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    But you can just believe in Zoraster on his own. Or you can believe in a Pantheon. There is equal support for these positions.

    No there isn't. Did Mars descend and fight with Hitler in WWII like he did at Troy. But the Lord has preserved his Church through all generations.


  • #1248
    Jan Hus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭Jan Hus


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    They are so much more advanced than we need that 99.9% of people struggle to understand basic elements of our existence like the theory of relativity and astrophysics.

    That's because they don't try. Neither relativity nor astrophysics are particularly cognitively difficult concepts - unlike the human brain.


  • #1249
    shizz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    And you can't do it in science either. How do you know your senses are not deceiving you. Dawkins himself said that the universe not only probably weirder than we know, but weirder than we can suppose. Why hasn't his prophecy come true long ago. Why are our brains much more advanced than we need - because we are created.

    Much more advanced than we need? Where did you pull that out of? In any case, why would someone create something beyond its means?


  • #1250
    Jan Hus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭Jan Hus


    shizz wrote: »
    Much more advanced than we need? Where did you pull that out of? In any case, why would someone create something beyond its means?

    What level of brainpower does it need to hunt and trap - not much.


  • #1251
    shizz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    That's because they don't try. Neither relativity nor astrophysics are particularly cognitively difficult concepts - unlike the human brain.

    So what you are saying is that the human brain is such an incredibly advanced thing, it is too difficult to comprehend? See a problem with what you said there by any chance?


  • Advertisement
  • #1252
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    No there isn't. Did Mars descend and fight with Hitler in WWII like he did at Troy.
    Nope, but I didn't see Jesus out there either. Mars might have moved onto other projects. The fact remains that there is equal support for the existence of Mars.
    Jan Hus wrote: »
    But the Lord has preserved his Church through all generations.
    Mars and Zeus and the other lads are also still going strong too - perhaps their spirit moves me to make this argument right now? Prove otherwise.


  • #1253
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    That's because they don't try. Neither relativity nor astrophysics are particularly cognitively difficult concepts - unlike the human brain.
    They don't try? I take it you haven't studied physics in secondary school for quite a while.


  • #1254
    Jan Hus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭Jan Hus


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Nope, but I didn't see Jesus out there either. Mars might have moved onto other projects. The fact remains that there is equal support for the existence of Mars.

    Mars and Zeus and the other lads are also still going strong too - perhaps their spirit moves me to make this argument right now? Prove otherwise.

    Zeus is Greek - Mars is Roman, one reason why they wouldn't be coexisting (Jupiter is the correct name).


  • #1255
    Jan Hus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭Jan Hus


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    They don't try? I take it you haven't studied physics in secondary school for quite a while.

    I am a secondary school student. I don't find them mind-warping.


  • #1256
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    And you can't do it in science either. How do you know your senses are not deceiving you. Dawkins himself said that the universe not only probably weirder than we know, but weirder than we can suppose. Why hasn't his prophecy come true long ago. Why are our brains much more advanced than we need - because we are created.

    Our senses do decieve us. What your eyes take in is not what you actually see, its the result of your brain interpretation of what you see.

    Similarly your sense of taste smell and vision can be deceiving. Take synisthests (cant spell it) but they feel colours can taste and see music etc.

    Or take the phantom hand , where a person who has lost a limb still feels it and is conviced its still there

    Science has shown us that these phenomenons do exist in us.

    As for our brains, everything in the brain has a function, we may not know at the moment what all the parts do but they are used. What part of the brain do we not used or are too advanced for us exactly?


  • #1257
    systemsready
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 297 ✭✭systemsready


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    So now you are just a pagan who does not eat pigs? :confused:

    Its a slow process but we're getting there. Stop eating pork today, stop eating black pudding tomorrow (blood),get circumcised another day, Follow the commandments and finally arrive at how Jesus was living and probably how man was meant to live as ordained by his Creator.


  • #1258
    Jan Hus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭Jan Hus


    Sin City wrote: »
    Our senses do decieve us. What your eyes take in is not what you actually see, its the result of your brain interpretation of what you see.

    Similarly your sense of taste smell and vision can be deceiving. Take synisthests (cant spell it) but they feel colours can taste and see music etc.

    Or take the phantom hand , where a person who has lost a limb still feels it and is conviced its still there

    Science has shown us that these phenomenons do exist in us.

    As for our brains, everything in the brain has a function, we may not know at the moment what all the parts do but they are used. What part of the brain do we not used or are too advanced for us exactly?

    You are quite correct, it is known as perception. Nonetheless the basic tenets of the argument remain. Besides what function does music have in evolutionary survival?


  • #1259
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    Jan Hus wrote: »
    You are quite correct, it is known as perception. Nonetheless the basic tenets of the argument remain. Besides what function does music have in evolutionary survival?

    Us humans are a social bunch, pretty useless on our own and easy pickings for most predators , but in a group we can be f***ing leathal. Music is a product of our social interactions with each other.


  • #1260
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    systemsready wrote: »
    Lelantos wrote: »
    So by your logic, I have to determine the truth by myself, when I prove it to be true, beyond a shadow of doubt, and then tell you, it no longer is the truth because you didn't determine it by yourself!

    It remains the truth to you, and until I test it with reason or experience it will remain something 'that I heard in a pub one Friday night'.
    So until you personally find Noah's ark on Mount Ararat, it remains something you heard in a pub on a Friday nite?


  • Advertisement
  • #1261
    Jan Hus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭Jan Hus


    Sin City wrote: »
    Us humans are a social bunch, pretty useless on our own and easy pickings for most predators , but in a group we can be f***ing leathal. Music is a product of our social interactions with each other.

    Em... I would have thought speech would be sufficient - music is whole level wayyy above speech.


Advertisement