The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

PopePalpatine · 12-10-2012 11:14AM

J C wrote: »

You need to take a plain reading of the Bible ... and stop being a 'Bible Literalist'!!!

Anyone see the irony in a Young Earth Creationist asking people to stop being "Bible Literalists"?

Monty Burnz · 12-10-2012 11:15AM

systemsready wrote: »

This is how you see things.
God gives you clear instructions about what is right and what is wrong.
Someone comes to you and says that what God said is now changed and He says something completely different.
You say.."How so?"
They tell you..."Can God not do anything?"
You say "Yes of course"
They say "so be it"
That then is the limit of your resistance to satan.

Ok, so now you are saying that the guy who brought the news about the new rules (Jesus of Nazareth) was the anti-Christ. What kind of Christian are you, exactly?

systemsready · 12-10-2012 11:16AM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well, not really. It seems that you like some Old Testament laws but not others, and some New Testament laws but not others. They may be clear to others, but apparently they are not clear to you.

Your not reading Harry Potter

Monty Burnz · 12-10-2012 11:20AM

systemsready wrote: »

Your not reading Harry Potter

You might as well be for all the good it is doing you. You banged on about the prohibition on eating pork all day yesterday as a law that never changed, and then you ignore a question about whether you keep the other dietary laws, or the laws about cutting your hair and so forth.

Why? Can you not answer? Is your position hopelessly inconsistent?

J C · 12-10-2012 11:22AM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'm not a fundamentalist, and I'm not even an atheist. I'm not sure how that helps you though - attacking the motives of the speaker rather than the point they make is another classic logical fallacy, much like your appeal to consequences earlier against evolution.

You were the first to trow the fundamentalist word around ... so I was merely pointing out that most people (and practically everyone on this thread) are pretty 'fundmentalist' about their own ideas.

systemsready · 12-10-2012 11:23AM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Ok, so now you are saying that the guy who brought the news about the new rules (Jesus of Nazareth) was the anti-Christ. What kind of Christian are you, exactly?

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

Jesus never abrogated the commandments.

J C · 12-10-2012 11:24AM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Anyone see the irony in a Young Earth Creationist asking people to stop being "Bible Literalists"?

It proves that Young Earth Creationists aren't Bible literalists ... we leave that to the Atheists!!!:)

Benny_Cake · 12-10-2012 11:27AM

systemsready wrote: »

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Do you honor the Sabbath on a Saturday in it's fullest sense? Do you mix fabrics of different kinds, or trim back the hair at the corners of the head? If so, the you are probably an ultra-Orthodox Jew, which is cool, but I've never heard of any Jew, Orthodox or otherwise, who argued that the laws in the Torah are obligatory for non-Jews.

So you are saying that God created 2 religions, one for the jews and one for the gentiles?
Are all men not equal before God?
Whats this with calling me jewish? just because I highlight a few things in comparisons?

First of all I've the greatest respect for the Jewish people. Although we have a lot in common Judaism and Christianity are two separate religions. Both Christians and Jews agree on that. You appeared to be arguing that all of the Old Testament laws are still binding, which is a position held by some Jews, although it is also a Jewish position that such laws are not binding on Gentiles. Do you adhere to the Old Testament dietary and purity laws or do you just not eat pork?

Monty Burnz · 12-10-2012 11:28AM

J C wrote: »

You were the first to trow the fundamentalist word around ... so I was merely pointing out that most people (and practically everyone on this thread) are pretty 'fundmentalist' about their own ideas.

Those with open minds who are lead by the evidence and not by their preconceptions are not fundamentalists.

People who start with questions rather than answers are not fundamentalists.

Lelantos · 12-10-2012 11:29AM

If anyone, even for one second believes that man & dinosaur existed together on this planet, at the same time, then they are truly deluded. It is an impossibility. Dinosaurs died out circa 65 million years ago. Australopithecus existed less than 5 million years ago, the first true homo sapiens, cro magnan approx 500,000 years ago. Now I don't mind if you chose not to believe that, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Monty Burnz · 12-10-2012 11:30AM

systemsready wrote: »

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

Jesus never abrogated the commandments.

So you do stick to all the dietary laws, and all the others too? You only eat kosher food? You don't do any work on Saturdays? You don't cut the hair at your temples?

Or are you picking and choosing which of these unchanged eternal laws to obey?

systemsready · 12-10-2012 02:44PM

Benny_Cake wrote: »

First of all I've the greatest respect for the Jewish people. Although we have a lot in common Judaism and Christianity are two separate religions. Both Christians and Jews agree on that. You appeared to be arguing that all of the Old Testament laws are still binding, which is a position held by some Jews, although it is also a Jewish position that such laws are not binding on Gentiles. Do you adhere to the Old Testament dietary and purity laws or do you just not eat pork?

"Although we have a lot in common Judaism and Christianity are two separate religions"
Just wondering why would God make 2 separate religions? Are we different species?

"You appeared to be arguing that all of the Old Testament laws are still binding, which is a position held by some Jews, although it is also a Jewish position that such laws are not binding on Gentiles

Why would health obligations become not binding?

The Jews were meant to be a guide to mankind, to show them how to live righteously. Including circumcision (health, cleanliness) (not eating pork, health cleanliness)and many other things

Light to the Gentiles

(Romans 2:17-20 KJV) Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, {18} And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; {19} And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, {20} An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
We can therefore see a contrast between the Jew and the Gentile:

Jew Gentile
Guide Blind
Light Darkness
Instructor Foolish
Teacher Babes

Israel was meant to be a guide, light, instructor and teacher to the Gentiles. But we see that Israel failed to be as God meant them to be. The result was that rather than having the Gentiles come to know God, God's name was blasphemed among the Gentiles.

source: http://www.av-1611.com/Light_to_the_Gentiles.htm

systemsready · 12-10-2012 02:47PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

So you do stick to all the dietary laws, and all the others too? You only eat kosher food? You don't do any work on Saturdays? You don't cut the hair at your temples?

Or are you picking and choosing which of these unchanged eternal laws to obey?

I'm not jewish,
I'm saying if Pork is deemed filthy by a jew...why would it be clean for me? Isnt filth =filth....tell me somewhere , anywhere, where you find a difference of opinion on what is clean and what is dirty among educated people.
If you walk into a restaurant with sh** on your hands, no one there is going to accept it. Its filthy, and its universal.

systemsready · 12-10-2012 02:49PM

Lelantos wrote: »

If anyone, even for one second believes that man & dinosaur existed together on this planet, at the same time, then they are truly deluded. It is an impossibility. Dinosaurs died out circa 65 million years ago. Australopithecus existed less than 5 million years ago, the first true homo sapiens, cro magnan approx 500,000 years ago. Now I don't mind if you chose not to believe that, but it doesn't make it any less true.

All that you have to go on is what someone told you. You accept that without question. You have no way to verify if they made a mistake or they are deluded.

Sin City · 12-10-2012 02:59PM

systemsready wrote: »

"Although we have a lot in common Judaism and Christianity are two separate religions"
Just wondering why would God make 2 separate religions? Are we different species?

God didnt create two different religions.
Man did

Sin City · 12-10-2012 03:04PM

systemsready wrote: »

All that you have to go on is what someone told you. You accept that without question. You have no way to verify if they made a mistake or they are deluded.

Thats the funny thing about science
Its verifible .
What leads you to think that a mistake has been made
There is a vast amount of scientific papers out there that take you through all that was done during an experiment. Others will have tested the experiment after the scientists and try and disprove the findings

Delusion doesnt come into it

Now as for accepting without question what others have told you without the ability to verify it is what religion is based on

systemsready · 12-10-2012 03:10PM

Sin City wrote: »

God didnt create two different religions.
Man did

THANK YOU! At least someone agrees with me. Between Christianity and Judaism, only 1 of them can be from God. God doesn't make different religions.

Sin City · 12-10-2012 03:12PM

systemsready wrote: »

THANK YOU! At least someone agrees with me. Between Christianity and Judaism, only 1 of them can be from God. God doesn't make different religions.

err, none of them came from God

Both are man made

systemsready · 12-10-2012 03:12PM

Sin City wrote: »

Thats the funny thing about science
Its verifible .
What leads you to think that a mistake has been made
There is a vast amount of scientific papers out there that take you through all that was done during an experiment. Others will have tested the experiment after the scientists and try and disprove the findings

Delusion doesnt come into it

Now as for accepting without question what others have told you without the ability to verify it is what religion is based on

There is a huge possibility that what science is saying about the age of the earth could be incorrect.

systemsready · 12-10-2012 03:13PM

Sin City wrote: »

err, none of them came from God

Both are man made

LOL...No...God would not leave His creatures without some form of guidance.

shizz · 12-10-2012 03:14PM

systemsready wrote: »

THANK YOU! At least someone agrees with me. Between Christianity and Judaism, only 1 of them can be from God. God doesn't make different religions.

Sliding aside the fact that they are both man made, Judaism came before Christianity, so why would god not make Christianity first and let us all know that that's the way to go?

Sin City · 12-10-2012 03:14PM

systemsready wrote: »

LOL...No...God would not leave His creatures without some form of guidance.

Can you prove that or are you just accepting someones word for it lol

Lelantos · 12-10-2012 03:14PM

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

If anyone, even for one second believes that man & dinosaur existed together on this planet, at the same time, then they are truly deluded. It is an impossibility. Dinosaurs died out circa 65 million years ago. Australopithecus existed less than 5 million years ago, the first true homo sapiens, cro magnan approx 500,000 years ago. Now I don't mind if you chose not to believe that, but it doesn't make it any less true.

All that you have to go on is what someone told you. You accept that without question. You have no way to verify if they made a mistake or they are deluded.

No, I have science, I have the evidence in fossils, I have enough intellect to understand the evolution of our species. It is a subject that has fascinated me since I saw Jacob Bronowski's Ascent of Man in the 70's. As I said, it is up to you to believe what you will, it still doesn't change the evidence or truth.

Sin City · 12-10-2012 03:15PM

systemsready wrote: »

There is a huge possibility that what science is saying about the age of the earth could be incorrect.

Please englighten me with this information which can be proven

systemsready · 12-10-2012 03:17PM

Sin City wrote: »

Can you prove that or are you just accepting someones word for it lol

There are times in life you have use reasoning, and this is one of them

systemsready · 12-10-2012 03:18PM

Sin City wrote: »

Please englighten me with this information which can be proven

How can I prove that its possible they may be in error...then it would not be a possibility...it would be a certainty!

systemsready · 12-10-2012 03:19PM

Lelantos wrote: »

No, I have science, I have the evidence in fossils, I have enough intellect to understand the evolution of our species. It is a subject that has fascinated me since I saw Jacob Bronowski's Ascent of Man in the 70's. As I said, it is up to you to believe what you will, it still doesn't change the evidence or truth.

No one can tell you TRUTH...you have to determine it yourself...and you are failing to do that

systemsready · 12-10-2012 03:23PM

shizz wrote: »

Sliding aside the fact that they are both man made, Judaism came before Christianity, so why would god not make Christianity first and let us all know that that's the way to go?

Because there is no such thing as christianity...Jesus was a Jew same as John the baptist..same as Moses...if anyone followed Jesus's teachings they would have never abandoned the Laws. They would be practicing a religion same as the jews practice.

LOOK:
In the Jerusalem Conference the 'apostles' just picked a few things out of a hat. Why did they pick these and not circumcision or pork? It doesn't make any sense.
"For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well, Fare ye well.
—King James Version — Acts, 15:28-29[105]

Sin City · 12-10-2012 03:23PM

systemsready wrote: »

There are times in life you have use reasoning, and this is one of them

I dont think you know what reason is

shizz · 12-10-2012 03:25PM

systemsready wrote: »

Because there is no such thing as christianity...Jesus was a Jew same as John the baptist..same as Moses...if anyone followed Jesus's teachings they would have never abandoned the Laws. They would be practicing a religion same as the jews practice.

LOOK:
In the Jerusalem Conference the 'apostles' just picked a few things out of a hat. Why did they pick these and not circumcision or pork? It doesn't make any sense.
"For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well, Fare ye well.
—King James Version — Acts, 15:28-29[105]

Sorry I was presuming that you where all for Christianity instead of Judaism.

The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

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