The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

systemsready · 11-10-2012 04:26AM

Lantus wrote: »

Just our already developing sense of curiosity and creativity.

We are not just curious about material things. A fully developed human being is not just someone with a six pack and an iPhone.
The greater part of the human being is the spirit. If you cannot see that you have a very long way to travel. Best set out now while you still have time..its a very long journey and not everyone makes it.

systemsready · 11-10-2012 04:32AM

Zombrex wrote: »

Ok, I'll add the Old Testament to the books you haven't actually read. Pork was not considered biologically unsafe. The Israelites had no idea about such things. They believed pork was bad because it was unholy and that eating it made you unclean.

Lev 11
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.

Jesus then comes along and says that you can't be made unclean by what you eat.

Now your ignorance of what the Bible actually says is cleared up perhaps you can answer my question about God just existing.

Funny that WE know now it is indeed unclean. Biggest cause of heart disease and many other ailments that affect human beings. A filthy food not meant to be on the diet of the human being. And you rightly say that the Ancient Hebrews weren't aware that it was unsafe to eat and had no way of knowing.
So just by luck, out of the blue came an order not to eat it. Hmmmm...Divine Intervention is the only answer then. Thanks be to God and bless His Prophets.

systemsready · 11-10-2012 05:43AM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

The prophets haven't actually shown you anything. They've written things which may or may not be true. Similarly, scientists have written things which may or may not be true. How do you determine which view is correct when there is a conflict, if you dismiss evidence?

The prophets have shown us many things. Lets look at some examples. Worship God (Good for the soul) Avoid fornication (Good for the health) Eat what God has made lawful for you (Good for the health) Fast regualrly (Good for the health) Circumcise (Good for the health of you and yourr wife)
Plus many many many other physical things...not to mention spiritual things. In all my years I havent heard any scientists come out and agree with these things as one body. There are scientists who disagree with these things. So who are you gonna go with. A Prophet who has divine guidance or a scientist?
I know its a rhetorical question. But would you trade guidance for misguidance?

YOU SAID:
"As to your meaning- if there is a God, you don't know His view of your meaning. That leaves you with your own assessment, which you would still have even if you abandoned your faith".

Of course I know his view of me. Its in scriptures. I am His servant.

systemsready · 11-10-2012 06:00AM

Gerry T wrote: »

So at 450ft long and 75ft wide they fit two of every living animal, if the flood lasted a yr then this would have to include birds, can't see them flapping about for a year without food. The largest oil tanker is about 1500ft long with a weight of 260,000 gross tonnage and I doubt you would get 2 of everything onto that.
I found this online,
Animals: estimated 3-30 million species
|
|--Invertebrates: 97% of all known species
| `--+--Sponges: 10,000 species
| |--Cnidarians: 8,000-9,000 species
| |--Molluscs: 100,000 species
| |--Platyhelminths: 13,000 species
| |--Nematodes: 20,000+ species
| |--Annelida: 12,000 species
| `--Arthropods
| `--+--Crustaceans: 40,000 species
| |--Insects: 1-30 million+ species
| `--Arachnids: 75,500 species
|
`--Vertebrates: 3% of all known species
`--+--Reptiles: 7,984 species
|--Amphibians: 5,400 species
|--Birds: 9,000-10,000 species
|--Mammals: 4,475-5,000 species
`--Ray-Finned Fishes: 23,500 species

Not saying it's accurate but even at a +/- 20% that's still millions of animals (mammals, reptiles, birds, insects).
My dad was like petrocelli (sorry if you're not over 45 you won't get that one! it's a '70s detective show, at the end of each show, Petrocelli was seen building his house, I was years watching that show and the block-work never got above 5ft), anyway my Dad build a garage, house extensions all single handed but took donkey years, how did Moses do it in a life time ? where did he get the materials to build such a structure, the required labour force, the cost. What did the neighbours think ?

If you store the elephants on top of the sponges you could fit a lot more animals in.

maguffin · 11-10-2012 07:29AM

systemsready wrote: »

If you store the elephants on top of the sponges you could fit a lot more animals in.

Mods, I think Systemsready is a Troll....a statement such as the above is just pure nonsense and dosen't add anything of value to this thread. Any one else agree??

Lelantos · 11-10-2012 09:27AM

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

I would hope most people have the ability to work it out long, long before then.

Really? I would like to meet these people (if they exist, which I very much doubt!)

So you believe that no one on this earth, with everything at hand, history, science & general intelligence, no one has come to the conclusion that, well, this god stuff is just a little bit silly & its time he or she put away childish things.

Lelantos · 11-10-2012 10:21AM

systemsready wrote: »

Zombrex wrote: »

Ok, I'll add the Old Testament to the books you haven't actually read. Pork was not considered biologically unsafe. The Israelites had no idea about such things. They believed pork was bad because it was unholy and that eating it made you unclean.

Lev 11
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.

Jesus then comes along and says that you can't be made unclean by what you eat.

Now your ignorance of what the Bible actually says is cleared up perhaps you can answer my question about God just existing.

Funny that WE know now it is indeed unclean. Biggest cause of heart disease and many other ailments that affect human beings. A filthy food not meant to be on the diet of the human being. And you rightly say that the Ancient Hebrews weren't aware that it was unsafe to eat and had no way of knowing.
So just by luck, out of the blue came an order not to eat it. Hmmmm...Divine Intervention is the only answer then. Thanks be to God and bless His Prophets.

Actually, no. Uncooked pork meat causes many forms of food poisoning, today we know about these dangers thru medicine & scientific research. In the times before Abrahams people, this was not known & people died from eating undercooked pork. It became easy to say don't eat pork, it just became the norm in hot & humid countries where the meat spoiled quickly. Funnily enough, lamb is always associated with god & its fat content is way higher than that of pork.

Monty Burnz · 11-10-2012 10:30AM

I think Systemsready is demonstrating Poe's Law. Well played Systemsready

Poe's Law is an axiom suggesting that it's difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish between parodies of religious or other fundamentalism and its genuine proponents, since they both seem equally insane. For example, some conservatives consider noted homophobe Fred Phelps to be so over-the-top that they argue he's a "deep cover liberal" trying to discredit more mainstream homophobes.

systemsready · 11-10-2012 11:42AM

Lelantos wrote: »

Actually, no. Uncooked pork meat causes many forms of food poisoning, today we know about these dangers thru medicine & scientific research. In the times before Abrahams people, this was not known & people died from eating undercooked pork. It became easy to say don't eat pork, it just became the norm in hot & humid countries where the meat spoiled quickly. Funnily enough, lamb is always associated with god & its fat content is way higher than that of pork.

OMG..such bull. About 30 people died in Scotland a few years ago from one incident of under cooked pork..
What pork is doing to your insides in the meantime doesn't bear thinking about
Now they have fridges in hot and humid countries..will we start to introduce pork there? No fear, those people are wise. They don't need science to tell them.."its ok now"
Funny thing is...Moses 5000 years ago forbade pork..and you say Jesus allowed pork 2000 years ago? Did Bosch start making fridges 2000 years ago?

systemsready · 11-10-2012 11:46AM

Lelantos wrote: »

So you believe that no one on this earth, with everything at hand, history, science & general intelligence, no one has come to the conclusion that, well, this god stuff is just a little bit silly & its time he or she put away childish things.

I didnt say that. Lots of people have 'put away childish things' and lots of people have regretted doing that.
If you are saying it is childish to continue believing in the Creator..and it is adult to become atheist..then child I hope I will always be. Because the condition of atheism is probably the worst situation one could be in.
And if atheism is indeed a terrible condition...the opposite must be the correct one to be in.

systemsready · 11-10-2012 11:54AM

maguffin wrote: »

Mods, I think Systemsready is a Troll....a statement such as the above is just pure nonsense and dosen't add anything of value to this thread. Any one else agree??

Cmon maguffin..no sense of humour? No imagination for humour?

Obliq · 11-10-2012 12:00PM

systemsready wrote: »

And if atheism is indeed a terrible condition...the opposite must be the correct one to be in.

Why is nobody in the Christian forum countering this tripe at all? I have a great deal of respect for people's faith, and even though I have no spiritual faith, I have respect for people's goodness and the path that they choose to walk towards valuing others makes no difference to me. This person is seriously disrespecting me and I am taking offence at the notion that my atheism is a "terrible" condition.
I refuse to speak to this person.

Lelantos · 11-10-2012 12:16PM

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

Actually, no. Uncooked pork meat causes many forms of food poisoning, today we know about these dangers thru medicine & scientific research. In the times before Abrahams people, this was not known & people died from eating undercooked pork. It became easy to say don't eat pork, it just became the norm in hot & humid countries where the meat spoiled quickly. Funnily enough, lamb is always associated with god & its fat content is way higher than that of pork.

OMG..such bull. About 30 people died in Scotland a few years ago from one incident of under cooked pork..HAHAHA.
What pork is doing to your insides in the meantime doesn't bear thinking about
Now they have fridges in hot and humid countries..will we start to introduce pork there? No fear, those people are wise. They don't need science to tell them.."its ok now"
Funny thing is...Moses 5000 years ago forbade pork..and you say Jesus allowed pork 2000 years ago? Did Bosch start making fridges 2000 years ago?

No, again you are wrong. Nothing to do with undercooking. The meat was stored incorrectly & was infected with ecoli, that is something you can't cook away. Just goes to prove that meat goes off if not stored properly. Imagine the probs people had 3000 years ago

I said nothing about Jesus, or anything to do with him saying pork can be eaten, check your facts please

maguffin · 11-10-2012 12:41PM

Lelantos wrote: »

No, again you are wrong. Nothing to do with undercooking. The meat was stored incorrectly & was infected with ecoli, that is something you can't cook away. Just goes to prove that meat goes off if not stored properly. Imagine the probs people had 3000 years ago

I said nothing about Jesus, or anything to do with him saying pork can be eaten, check your facts please

Here are some facts re pork...

Swine were prohibited in ancient Syria and Phoenicia and the pig and its flesh represented a taboo observed, Strabo noted, at Comana in Pontus.
Such restrictions exist in Jewish Dietary Laws (Kashrut), in Christian dietary laws, and in Muslim Dietary Laws (Halal). It originates first from the laws of the Hebrew Bible, and later reinforced for the Muslims in the Quran.
Also among Christians, Seventh Day Adventists consider pork taboo, along with other foods forbidden by Jewish law. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church also discourages pork consumption.

Here is the BIBLICAL reason why pork is prohibited:
Old Testament:

Leviticus 11:7-8
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it [is] unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

A kosher animal must be a ruminant and have split hooves - therefore cows, sheep, goats and deer are all kosher, whereas camels and pigs (having each only one sign of kashrut) are not kosher.
The pig is the only common livestock animal that has split hooves but which is not a ruminant - its external aspect makes it appear kosher, while it is not.

Nothing to do with storage/cooking of meat or the argument that it causes harm within the body.....simply because it does not chew the cud!!

Lelantos · 11-10-2012 12:56PM

maguffin wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

No, again you are wrong. Nothing to do with undercooking. The meat was stored incorrectly & was infected with ecoli, that is something you can't cook away. Just goes to prove that meat goes off if not stored properly. Imagine the probs people had 3000 years ago

I said nothing about Jesus, or anything to do with him saying pork can be eaten, check your facts please

Here are some facts re pork...

Swine were prohibited in ancient Syria and Phoenicia and the pig and its flesh represented a taboo observed, Strabo noted, at Comana in Pontus.
Such restrictions exist in Jewish Dietary Laws (Kashrut), in Christian dietary laws, and in Muslim Dietary Laws (Halal). It originates first from the laws of the Hebrew Bible, and later reinforced for the Muslims in the Quran.
Also among Christians, Seventh Day Adventists consider pork taboo, along with other foods forbidden by Jewish law. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church also discourages pork consumption.

Here is the BIBLICAL reason why pork is prohibited:
Old Testament:

Leviticus 11:7-8
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it [is] unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

A kosher animal must be a ruminant and have split hooves - therefore cows, sheep, goats and deer are all kosher, whereas camels and pigs (having each only one sign of kashrut) are not kosher.
The pig is the only common livestock animal that has split hooves but which is not a ruminant - its external aspect makes it appear kosher, while it is not.

Nothing to do with storage/cooking of meat or the argument that it causes harm within the body.....simply because it does not chew the cud!!

Ok, plain English, it kills people. Ok? They knew that thousands of years before Christendom was even a dream. They did not know why it killed people. So, in men's ignorance it was called bad juju, or medicine, as religions came into being, they incorporated that into their beliefs. That is why. Now move along please to the next bit of the fairytale

maguffin · 11-10-2012 01:02PM

Lelantos wrote: »

Ok, plain English, it kills people. Ok? They knew that thousands of years before Christendom was even a dream. They did not know why it killed people. So, in men's ignorance it was called bad juju, or medicine, as religions came into being, they incorporated that into their beliefs. That is why. Now move along please to the next bit of the fairytale

What utter rubbish.....where is the evidence for this 'killer pork'?? Think of all the people who eat pork in all it's different forms...bacon, chops, loin, rashers....etc etc all during their lives and have lived, un-harmed into ripe old age! I've been eating pork since a young age, am 60 now, with no ill effects, and nothing to link the eating of pork with!!

It's YOU whose telling the fairytale!!!

Monty Burnz · 11-10-2012 01:10PM

On the pork thing, there is also a theory that because pigs could eat the same food that prehistoric humans did, they were essentially competitors for resources. Ruminants can eat stuff that is no use to us - grass, etc. - so it made sense to farm and/or herd them. You can see how the wisdom of 'don't farm these' became rationalised over time as 'these are unclean' before inclusion into early forms of monotheistic religion.

systemsready · 11-10-2012 02:11PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

On the pork thing, there is also a theory that because pigs could eat the same food that prehistoric humans did, they were essentially competitors for resources. Ruminants can eat stuff that is no use to us - grass, etc. - so it made sense to farm and/or herd them. You can see how the wisdom of 'don't farm these' became rationalised over time as 'these are unclean' before inclusion into early forms of monotheistic religion.

Is that why we don't eat hyenas, dogs and other scavengers like pigs.
Or is it because it would be wrong to eat a creature that is designed for scavenging dead carcasses and human excrement.

Lelantos · 11-10-2012 02:12PM

maguffin wrote: »

What utter rubbish.....where is the evidence for this 'killer pork'?? Think of all the people who eat pork in all it's different forms...bacon, chops, loin, rashers....etc etc all during their lives and have lived, un-harmed into ripe old age! I've been eating pork since a young age, am 60 now, with no ill effects, and nothing to link the eating of pork with!!

It's YOU whose telling the fairytale!!!

Systemsready already said in a earlier post about pig being bad for you, he also said that people died a few years ago in Scotland. He was correct, but for the wrong reasons, it was ecoli, which is prevelant in badly stored pork carcasses. It cannon be cooked out in its virulant strain & you will die. Ok? Happy heart attacks all around, wish you & the reast of the bible quoters would pick a story & stick with it

systemsready · 11-10-2012 02:23PM

Or maybe its because the pig is an ancient human excrement scavenger used in many villages in India and South East Asia since time began. Its called a Pig Toilet.

https://www.totseans.com/bbs/threads/14119-Pig-toilet

Bruce parry on the BBC documentary "Tribe" actually used a pig toilet for a week along with a group of villagers in Borneo, and guess what? At the end of the week they made a feast to say goodbye. Yes...they killed a pig and cooked it for the celebration.
Bruce said.."I'm basically eating my own sh*t."

My guess is the pig was always ancient mans way of getting rid of human sh*t. Thats why its not allowed to eat it.
You say they don't eat sh*t now? Go and see what they eat at the pig farms.

Remember the old adage..."You are what you eat!"

systemsready · 11-10-2012 02:25PM

Lelantos wrote: »

Systemsready already said in a earlier post about pig being bad for you, he also said that people died a few years ago in Scotland. He was correct, but for the wrong reasons, it was ecoli, which is prevelant in badly stored pork carcasses. It cannon be cooked out in its virulant strain & you will die. Ok? Happy heart attacks all around, wish you & the reast of the bible quoters would pick a story & stick with it

"Badly stored pork?" Why not just cut it out of your diet? You don't need it? Do you? I bet you think you do need it?
Or I bet you couldn't cut it from your diet because of the implications/admittance which will result.

Monty Burnz · 11-10-2012 02:26PM

systemsready wrote: »

Is that why we don't eat hyenas, dogs and other scavengers like pigs.
Or is it because it would be wrong to eat a creature that is designed for scavenging dead carcasses and human excrement.

Where did you discover the design for the pig? Is it at the back of the bible somewhere?

(by the way, you should probably do some reading on what pigs actually eat in the wild)

systemsready · 11-10-2012 02:30PM

maguffin wrote: »

Here are some facts re pork...

Swine were prohibited in ancient Syria and Phoenicia and the pig and its flesh represented a taboo observed, Strabo noted, at Comana in Pontus.
Such restrictions exist in Jewish Dietary Laws (Kashrut), in Christian dietary laws, and in Muslim Dietary Laws (Halal). It originates first from the laws of the Hebrew Bible, and later reinforced for the Muslims in the Quran.
Also among Christians, Seventh Day Adventists consider pork taboo, along with other foods forbidden by Jewish law. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church also discourages pork consumption.

Here is the BIBLICAL reason why pork is prohibited:
Old Testament:

Leviticus 11:7-8
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it [is] unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

A kosher animal must be a ruminant and have split hooves - therefore cows, sheep, goats and deer are all kosher, whereas camels and pigs (having each only one sign of kashrut) are not kosher.
The pig is the only common livestock animal that has split hooves but which is not a ruminant - its external aspect makes it appear kosher, while it is not.

Nothing to do with storage/cooking of meat or the argument that it causes harm within the body.....simply because it does not chew the cud!!

He cheweth not the cud (grass) yes...and that implies he cheweth something else..and what is that something else? SH*T thats what he cheweth. and dead animals ..and any thing else that comes his way. And then you eateth him..meaning you also cheweth the sh*t

systemsready · 11-10-2012 02:31PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Where did you discover the design for the pig? Is it at the back of the bible somewhere?

(by the way, you should probably do some reading on what pigs actually eat in the wild)

Monty see my Bruce parry comment 3 steps up

Lelantos · 11-10-2012 02:33PM

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

Systemsready already said in a earlier post about pig being bad for you, he also said that people died a few years ago in Scotland. He was correct, but for the wrong reasons, it was ecoli, which is prevelant in badly stored pork carcasses. It cannon be cooked out in its virulant strain & you will die. Ok? Happy heart attacks all around, wish you & the reast of the bible quoters would pick a story & stick with it

"Badly stored pork?" Why not just cut it out of your diet? You don't need it? Do you? I bet you think you do need it?
Or I bet you couldn't cut it from your diet because of the implications/admittance which will result.

I actually cut out lamb & beef, way more fatty than pork. Lamb of god will kill ya!

Monty Burnz · 11-10-2012 02:34PM

systemsready wrote: »

Monty see my Bruce parry comment 3 steps up

But that wasn't a wild pig, was it? There's a big difference between using something that suits a purpose as a tool (e.g. riding a horse) and something actually being designed for something.

Pigs will eat the best food available to them. If you only give them waste products, that's just what they will have to eat to survive.

systemsready · 11-10-2012 02:36PM

Lelantos wrote: »

I actually cut out lamb & beef, way more fatty than pork. Lamb of god will kill ya!

Talk about picking the wrong 1 out of 3!

Personally I hardly eat meat at all. Maybe once a month I will have a small piece of lamb. Gandhi wrote lots of things about meat, and its not good for us at all , especially the way we eat it.
When I say meat I mean lamb and beef.
Pork is not meat, its just rubbish.

systemsready · 11-10-2012 02:37PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

But that wasn't a wild pig, was it? There's a big difference between using something that suits a purpose as a tool (e.g. riding a horse) and something actually being designed for something.

Pigs will eat the best food available to them. If you only give them waste products, that's just what they will have to eat to survive.

So Monty...you are saying if a wild pig comes across a dead human in a forest..he wont eat it?

Lelantos · 11-10-2012 02:39PM

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

I actually cut out lamb & beef, way more fatty than pork. Lamb of god will kill ya!

Talk about picking the wrong 1 out of 3!

Personally I hardly eat meat at all. Maybe once a month I will have a small piece of lamb. Gandhi wrote lots of things about meat, and its not good for us at all , especially the way we eat it.
When I say meat I mean lamb and beef.
Pork is not meat, its just rubbish.

G'wan, tell us, who's alt are you? We won't tell anyone, not even Vishnu..or Mohammad..or JC.

Sarky · 11-10-2012 02:39PM

You don't eat bacon? No wonder you're so uppity.

The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

Comments