Plan to build $84 million Super Mosque in Dublin Ireland.

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 11:08AM

The Bishop! wrote: »

Well, fortunately for Irish muslims who wish to practice their faith, their freedom to do that is enshrined in the constitution. (article 44)

Nobody is saying people should not be allowed practice their faith , what they are saying is that you must look at the effects on society a particular faith may have , effects which are well documented in the UK.

Also when the constitution was written nobody could forsee the direction in which Islam would take , there are many good muslims but there is an increasing radical element around the world and you must not close your eyes to it , the Irish people must be protected at all times.

Also there is plenty of room at the clonskeagh mosque , the only reason for this mosque is that the developer needs people for his housing project and hopes to encourage more Islamic settlers from the Uk and Asia.

Also constitutions are changed all the time to protect their people , its no big deal to do so.

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 11:15AM

Terrontress wrote: »

I've had two Muslim friends in my time, both of them great guys.

yes and so did I and lots of other people but with respect thats not the issue. The issue is the long term effects on the Residents in Clongriffin but also wider society , we must not turn a blind eye to the UK situation.

I'll give you an example.

During Ramadan Muslim parents were removing their small children from school music lessons , when asked why they were doing this , they said they did not know that they were told to do so by the local Imam , this kind of thing causes major disruptions for other pupils who are trying to learn when all this is going on. this is just one of many

The Bishop! · 09-10-2012 11:15AM

MrD012 wrote: »

Nobody is saying people should not be allowed practice their faith , what they are saying is that you must look at the effects on society a particular faith may have , effects which are well documented in the UK.

Also when the constitution was written nobody could forsee the direction in which Islam would take , there are many good muslims but there is an increasing radical element around the world and you must not close your eyes to it , the Irish people must be protected at all times.

Also there is plenty of room at the clonskeagh mosque , the only reason for this mosque is that the developer needs people for his housing project and hopes to encourage more Islamic settlers from the Uk and Asia.

Also constitutions are changed all the time to protect their people , its no big deal to do so.

You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth.

You're saying that people should be allowed to practice their faith and build places to do that. Except muslims.

ok..

Ellis Dee · 09-10-2012 11:20AM

It is irrelevant and even rather silly to cite authoritarian and intolerant regimes in other parts of the world and suggest we should in any way emulate them.

Here in Ireland, we are subject to our own laws and constitution, Article 44.1.2 of which states:

Freedom of conscience and the free profession and practice of religion are, subject to public order and morality, guaranteed to every citizen.

Thus Muslims have every right to build a mosque for themselves.

And that from someone who sometimes suspects Richard Dawkins is a bit too soft on religion.:)

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 11:20AM

The Bishop! wrote: »

You're saying that people should be allowed to practice their faith and build places to do that. Except muslims.

I'm saying that we do not want to repeat the mistakes the UK has made by allowing an uncontrolled migration of Islamic settlers .

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 11:23AM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

It is irrelevant and even rather silly to cite authoritarian and intolerant regimes in other parts of the world and suggest we should in any way emulate them.

I dont think anybody was saying that , they were merely pointing out that in Most Islamic countries christianity and other religions are tightly controlled and we need to ask ourselves the reason for this .

Terrontress · 09-10-2012 11:28AM

MrD012 wrote: »

The Bishop! wrote: »

You're saying that people should be allowed to practice their faith and build places to do that. Except muslims.

I'm saying that we do not want to repeat the mistakes the UK has made by allowing an uncontrolled migration of Islamic settlers .

Are the people who want the mosque not already here?

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 11:35AM

Terrontress wrote: »

Are the people who want the mosque not already here?

The people who want the Mosque are people NAMA met with on their trip to the Middle East to sell off Irish Taxpayer owned Property.

Terrontress · 09-10-2012 11:38AM

MrD012 wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

Are the people who want the mosque not already here?

The people who want the Mosque are people NAMA met with on their trip to the Middle East to sell off Irish Taxpayer owned Property.

I don't understand any more.

Has the immigration not already happened, hence the need for the mosque?

Surely middle eastern folk aren't putting up a mosque for a Muslim population which does not yet live in Ireland.

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 11:45AM

Terrontress wrote: »

Surely middle eastern folk aren't putting up a mosque for a Muslim population which does not yet live in Ireland.

now your getting it , the clonskeagh mosque is more than adequate to accomodate the muslim population , the purpose of this mosque is to attract more Islamic Settlers , the saudi investors see it as a way to strengthen the Islamic colonies in the west , I mean thats their ultimate goal , they're not in it to make money , I mean if they were I'm sure they could think of better ways than setting up a Mosque, I mean how much money can a Mosque make.

Bannasidhe · 09-10-2012 11:52AM

MrD012 wrote: »

now your getting it , the clonskeagh mosque is more than adequate to accomodate the muslim population , the purpose of this mosque is to attract more Islamic Settlers

From Islamia?

You do realise Islam is a religion not a race yeah?

There are Irish Muslims. People born, bred and raised in Ireland who are Muslim.

What about EU citizens who are Muslim - should be stop them coming in too?

Terrontress · 09-10-2012 11:52AM

MrD012 wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

Surely middle eastern folk aren't putting up a mosque for a Muslim population which does not yet live in Ireland.

now your getting it , the clonskeagh mosque is more than adequate to accomodate the muslim population , the purpose of this mosque is to attract more Islamic Settlers

If we were to have a decent infrastructure, then yes. As it is, getting from Clongriffin to Clonskeagh is torture.

If there are issues with Islamic immigrants, preventing them from worshipping is not the way to deal with it.

Madam · 09-10-2012 11:55AM

junder wrote: »

I read a report a while ago that said the highest conversion rate to Islam is amoung Roman Catholics ( this is Roman Catholics in general and not specific to the republic if Ireland).

Are these the ones who like to be told what to do from morning to night, what to eat(when and where) etc. Replacing one extreme for another imo:(

Btw I'm not against Mosque's being built anywhere - just don't go along with the whole religion thing(no matter what faith you follow).

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 11:57AM

Terrontress wrote: »

If there are issues with Islamic immigrants, preventing them from worshipping is not the way to deal with it.

nobody is preventing anybody from doing anything , as I said , the clonskeagh Mosque is enormous and more than adequate to cope with the demand.

Bannasidhe · 09-10-2012 12:00PM

MrD012 wrote: »

nobody is preventing anybody from doing anything , as I said , the clonskeagh Mosque is enormous and more than adequate to cope with the demand.

Well, perhaps instead of building a new mosque we should give them some of those enormous Catholic churches that are all over the country which hardly any body bothers to use any more.
Sure the Catholic don't need so many huge buildings - they don't even have enough priests for every parish.

Terrontress · 09-10-2012 12:00PM

MrD012 wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

If there are issues with Islamic immigrants, preventing them from worshipping is not the way to deal with it.

nobody is preventing anybody from doing anything , as I said , the clonskeagh Mosque is enormous and more than adequate to cope with the demand.

But it can take 90 minutes to get from North Dublin to there. That must be the rationale. They wouldn't go building a facility that they don't need.

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 12:01PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There are Irish Muslims. People born, bred and raised in Ireland who are Muslim.

what has what you said got to do with anything , we are talking about the Clongriffin Mosque . ?

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What about EU citizens who are Muslim - should be stop them coming in too?

I am saying we need to look a short distance accross the waters to the UK and study the Impacts Islam has had on the UK society.

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 12:03PM

Terrontress wrote: »

But it can take 90 minutes to get from North Dublin to there. That must be the rationale. They wouldn't go building a facility that they don't need.

your having a laugh now , I really dont know why I even bothered coming on this forum if people are just going to go off on tangents and start talking about "Travel Distances" within Dublin

usernamegoes · 09-10-2012 12:04PM

lagente wrote: »

I personally object to this and I hope we quickly quash the argument that this will lead to creation of new jobs and investment, because the long term ramifications of this are large. We would not be allowed to even spread other religion on the street in many of the countries where the people are from, let alone build a cultural center for it. It is because of this religion that 9 year old girls can be married, and had sex with in countries like Saudi Arabia, beheadings of gays, etc. Islam has branches that are still stuck in the Middle Ages and worse, I'm not even going to argue on that point, and I think we should take active steps against it being built. There has been enough suffering due to unchecked religion here already.

So you want Ireland to be more like Islamic countries?

partyatmygaff · 09-10-2012 12:04PM

A 34 classroom school just for Muslims?

Seems like a recipe for disaster. Having almost an entire generation's worth of a group of people learn and grow up completely separated from the rest of society is a surefire way to brew up problems.

Bannasidhe · 09-10-2012 12:07PM

MrD012 wrote: »

what has what you said got to do with anything , we are talking about the Clongriffin Mosque . ?

I am saying we need to look a short distance accross the waters to the UK and study the Impacts Islam has had on the UK society.

You were spouting nonsense about Islamic 'settlers' - simply pointing out that since there are already Irish Muslims the term 'settlers' doesn't apply.

Look at all the trouble Irish settlers caused in England - tried to murder the government by planting a bomb in a hotel, blew up young children by planting a bomb in a bin on a busy high street on a Saturday, engaged in robberies and kidnappings etc etc. Do you think The English should have stopped the Irish getting into their country?

wes · 09-10-2012 12:08PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

A 34 classroom school just for Muslims?

Seems like a recipe for disaster. Having almost an entire generation's worth of a group of people learn and grow up completely separated from the rest of society is a surefire way to brew up problems.

You'd have a fair point, if most of the countries schools, weren't already run on a similar basis.......

Aiel · 09-10-2012 12:11PM

My general point was that there is huge persecution of Christians in these countries where its very hard to spread any faith but Islam.They are more then welcome to try spread their faith here if they would let Christians do it there.

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 12:12PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Look at all the trouble Irish settlers caused in England - tried to murder the government by planting a bomb in a hotel, blew up young children by planting a bomb in a bin on a busy high street on a Saturday, engaged in robberies and kidnappings etc etc

Again your sort of going 'off topic' , I never mentioned once anything about bombs or killing people .

I said we need to examine the UK , examine the impact on everyday society Islam is having and learn from their mistakes .

philologos · 09-10-2012 12:13PM

Religious freedom should exist for all in society. Although I have strong disagreements with Islam they have the liberty to practice their faith freely.

I do however balk when people compare radical Muslims to the Amish (who are non-violent) and the Westboro Baptist Church is still ridiculously tenuous (they are a family church with 70 people hardly representative of Christianity not to mention that their theology is way off - they are still non-violent).

wes · 09-10-2012 12:14PM

Aiel wrote: »

My general point was that there is huge persecution of Christians in these countries where its very hard to spread any faith but Islam.They are more then welcome to try spread their faith here if they would let Christians do it there.

So Muslims are all one big homogenous group? How exactly do you propose for example, lets say an Irish convert to Islam is suppose to change how a foreign government works? Surely, they would have no say in the matter. So why should they be reponsible for someting with which they have no say in?

Hacuna Matata · 09-10-2012 12:14PM

Aiel wrote: »

My general point was that there is huge persecution of Christians in these countries where its very hard to spread any faith but Islam.They are more then welcome to try spread their faith here if they would let Christians do it there.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politifact-most-muslim-countries-allow-churches-synagogues/1126477

Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic relations, said Graham was incorrect. "There are lots of Christian churches and synagogues in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Jordan, Indonesia, Qatar, Kuwait. … If you go to any number of so-called Muslim countries you will see thriving Christian and Jewish populations." One member of the Iranian Parliament is Jewish, Hooper noted. "The only one where you don't see it, where you can't have a Christian church or synagogue is Saudi Arabia," Hooper said.

NTMK · 09-10-2012 12:15PM

MrD012 wrote: »

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Look at all the trouble Irish settlers caused in England - tried to murder the government by planting a bomb in a hotel, blew up young children by planting a bomb in a bin on a busy high street on a Saturday, engaged in robberies and kidnappings etc etc

Again your sort of going 'off topic' , I never mentioned once anything about bombs or killing people .

I said we need to examine the UK , examine the impact on everyday society Islam is having and learn from their mistakes .

would you care to list some of these negative impacts?

wes · 09-10-2012 12:16PM

MrD012 wrote: »

but they're not . (also it should be country's schools)

So the Catholic church doesn't run most of the country's schools?

Bannasidhe · 09-10-2012 12:20PM

MrD012 wrote: »

Again your sort of going 'off topic' , I never mentioned once anything about bombs or killing people .

I said we need to examine the UK , examine the impact on everyday society Islam is having and learn from their mistakes .

How is it off topic?

You urge us to look at the effect of Islam on UK society - I pointed out that another group of people had a demonstrably negative and violent impact on UK society but were not prevented from entry as the UK government realised that those responsible for the violence were a small minority who were not representative of the vast majority of Irish people. The fundamentalists are not representative of the vast majority of Muslims.

As for UK society - I lived there for 10 years and it was a breath of fresh air after holy Catholic Ireland.

If that is what we can expect -Bring it on I say!!

Plan to build $84 million Super Mosque in Dublin Ireland.

Comments