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What would help the Irish Language In Todays Media?

24567…11

Comments

  • #32
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    Why the hell do people even care about 'reviving' the Irish language when the country is in the absolute sh*tter for the forseeable future? What would this achieve other than anecdotally hearing two people converse in Irish the odd time and thinking: "Ah, isn't that nice?"

    It's uncompetitive of us to teach it at a compulsory level for every single year of someone's pre-university education. We're broke, remember? And the cost of translating every single document etc is such an enormous waste of cash, nevermind the enormous waste of time that is having students read Irish poetry or write Irish letters in class.

    Oh well, I'm sure there will be multiple deluded posters coming on here - who never bothered nearly the language in school but are feeling nostalgic - that will defend it on entirely unrealistic, wasteful, 'patriotic' reasons. Just remember though; the country is broke. Broke.

    ....also, we're broke.


  • #33
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    This would be an example of expecting people who don't speak Irish, wanting to be able to.

    Making it an exclusive event does nothing to promote it.


    Nope, shocking as it might seem, this one's not about people who don't want to speak Irish.

    Its for people who do want to. All everyone else is expected to do is respect their choice.


  • #34
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,222 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Send kids to areas predominantly populated with Irish-speake...oh wait.


  • #35
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    Seriously I am proud to be Irish but can we please please take all the millions (billions?) wasted on trying to promote Irish and spend it on these activities which are in my mind way more beneficial/worthwhile;
    1) Promoting Hurling throughout Ireland (wonderful game only played to a high level in 8 counties)
    2) Promoting Gaelic Football throughout Ireland - provide money to the struggling counties (e.g. Leitrim, Kilkenny, Clare) to help with facilities/coaching etc... Clubs and counties doing well in football brings so much joy/pride to communities
    3) Promoting Irish music and Irish dancing - most people love music and dance


  • #36
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Birroc wrote: »
    Seriously I am proud to be Irish but can we please please take all the millions (billions?) wasted on trying to promote Irish and spend it on these activities which are in my mind way more beneficial/worthwhile;
    1) Promoting Hurling throughout Ireland (wonderful game only played to a high level in 8 counties)
    2) Promoting Gaelic Football throughout Ireland - provide money to the struggling counties (e.g. Leitrim, Kilkenny, Clare) to help with facilities/coaching etc... Clubs and counties doing well in football brings so much joy/pride to communities
    3) Promoting Irish music and Irish dancing - most people love music and dance

    There's an organisation called the GAA who are supposed to do items 1 & 2 and are loaded with plenty funding.

    For item 3 theres Ceoltas, and Riverdance


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  • #37
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Teach it as a foreign language. Teach it as a language full stop.

    Dont tell kids that learning Irish "culture" is part of the package, if they want to learn the Irish language at school.

    Dont force kids to learn crap melancholy Irish literature. It is so damn off putting.

    Why the department of education has not figured this out is beyond me.


  • #38
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Send kids to areas predominantly populated with Irish-speake...oh wait.

    Oh wait, what?


  • #39
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    DyldeBrill wrote: »
    People always have mixed thoughts when it comes to this subject, some positive, some negative, and that will forever live

    If the Irish language is to succeed, what do you think would help it within the media world?And people who don't speak Irish, what are your thoughts on the language in relation to how its portrayed? Is there not enough advertisement done? Or is it the fact that there is plenty of advertisement, its just the fact that it is not done right?

    Would be interested in hearing people's views on this subject.

    It's a language.
    It needs to be spoken, not advertised.
    I'm not Irish, but one thing I hear (and believe) is that the way it isi taught is simply outdated, counterproductive and a big waste of money. I learned Latin in the same way that people here are taught Irish, but the difference is that nobody ever expected me to talk Latin. The idea that Latin could be used in conversation was ridiculous to my teachers back then, and it would seem that it's just as ridiculous to Irish teachers here and now.

    When I first came to Ireland, I actually thought about trying to learn it, but there were no beginner's evening courses for adults, and I couldn't afford one of those "Learn the language" holidays so popular with Americans.

    If you want to revive the language, teach it as a language. Make it voluntary, and make it fun.
    And don't start in schools, that's way too late. Incentivise parents to teach their children, provide creches that will teach it.


  • #40
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Birroc wrote: »
    Seriously I am proud to be Irish but can we please please take all the millions (billions?) wasted on trying to promote Irish and spend it on these activities which are in my mind way more beneficial/worthwhile;
    1) Promoting Hurling throughout Ireland (wonderful game only played to a high level in 8 counties)
    2) Promoting Gaelic Football throughout Ireland - provide money to the struggling counties (e.g. Leitrim, Kilkenny, Clare) to help with facilities/coaching etc... Clubs and counties doing well in football brings so much joy/pride to communities
    3) Promoting Irish music and Irish dancing - most people love music and dance


    ugh.......enough already.

    The GAA is plenty strong.

    (and thats coming from someone who's been at the last 8 hurling finals).


  • #41
    johnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 210 ✭✭johnam


    In my eyes, the resentment comes from the way it is taught. Despite what it says in the constitution, Irish is a "foreign" language to most people in Ireland. What I mean by that is that we don't use it in our day to day living. Yet, when we go to school, we get taught Irish like we teach English, not like we teach French or German. Instead of giving us the language we need to hold a conversation, we learn poetry and other rubbish we will never use. It says a lot when we spend 8 years in primary and 5 in secondary school getting Irish forced on us, and still come away with a better knowledge of which ever foreign language we have learned for 5 years in secondary than we have of Irish.

    In my eyes being able to speak the language does not make you any more Irish than Joe down the road who doesn't speak it. Irish should be taught in Primary School, but it should only be an option in secondary school.
    We should also teach German or some other foreign language in Primary school. I know kids from Poland and France can answer basic questions in English by the age of 5 and hold a fairly decent but basic conversation in English by the age of 10, yet we don't start to learn any European languages until the age of 12/13 and even then we only do it for 5 years.


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  • #42
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Can we not just link this back to the "How to Revive the Irish Language" topic that there was a few weeks back? Maybe let people read all the replies in there before they make a point that has been made a million, million times before? Or must we have ANOTHER topic whereby we go round and round in circular arguments over and over?

    *Starts countdown until the discussion of compulsion vs obligatory begins*

    These topics always end up the same; the people who claim to want to revive the Irish language don't want to hear the genuine criticisms there are, and the majority of people don't give a damn about it enough to ever do anything other than make the same case for the 1000th time.


  • #43
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Another thread about reviving the Irish Language.

    Aside of that in all seriousness. People need to be motivated to take up something. I am not motivated to take up Irish. I've no interest in it. Actually, I have a great deal of the complete opposite of interest in the language. I can't think of any circumstances which'll make it appealing to me in anyway what so ever.

    This is a big country. Not trying to be smart, but there's more than just yourself in it.

    There are four million people here.

    I'd say there's maybe 200,000 tops who speak Irish fluently. That is, if you sat them down in front of Sean Ban Breathnach they could natter away to him in Irish for an hour or two.

    So, there's 3.8 million people who dont speak fluently.

    Of those, there's probably 2 million who could not care less about the Irish language. Maybe more. You are in the camp.

    But I would wager that there is a sizeable number, maybe half a million, who would like to be able to speak it well.

    In my view, this group has been actively discouraged from speaking it by the cultural zealots who created the Irish language syllabus for our school system.


  • #44
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    I'd say there's maybe 200,000 tops who speak Irish fluently. That is, if you sat them down in front of Sean Ban Breathnach they could natter away to him in Irish for an hour or two.

    So, there's 3.8 million people who dont speak fluently.

    Of those, there's probably 2 million who could not care less about the Irish language. Maybe more. You are in the camp.

    Jesus, you must be having trouble sitting down, given how painful it must have been to pull those numbers out of your ***. :pac:


  • #45
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    This is a big country. Not trying to be smart, but there's more than just yourself in it.

    There are four million people here.

    And I've only claimed to speak for 1 of them. As I've mentioned, the main point is motivation to learn it. Using myself to say I've none and unless others have any, they won't be inclined to either. That is the focal point in looking to promote it. Otherwise there are plenty of options to get exposure to it, some of which I referenced and you cut out from my quote.
    An Coilean wrote: »
    Nope, shocking as it might seem, this one's not about people who don't want to speak Irish.

    Its for people who do want to. All everyone else is expected to do is respect their choice.

    It's not a matter of respect when you can't communicate with someone who refuses to speak with you on the same level. That is what I meant by exclusive.


  • #46
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    gobnaitolunacy wrote: »
    There's an organisation called the GAA who are supposed to do items 1 & 2 and are loaded with plenty funding.

    For item 3 theres Ceoltas, and Riverdance

    Not enough funding.
    There are many many counties without senior hurling clubs which is a disgrace. There are many football clubs in debt through building decent facilities.

    Keeping people fit (especially young people) and encouraging team/community spirit way more important than speaking a dead language.


  • #47
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    ugh.......enough already.

    The GAA is plenty strong.

    (and thats coming from someone who's been at the last 8 hurling finals).

    Nonsense and you know it.
    It is plenty strong in strong counties.
    Galway are in Leinster ffs


  • #48
    DyldeBrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭DyldeBrill


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    I can only answer for myself and it was in that context that I did. Just as much as there are people with an interest to learn it from scratch, there are many people who don't like seeing it "being pushed upon them." I understand it's not always the intention, but it can be a consequence and impression that is easily picked up.

    I see where you are coming from and yes I very much agree that it can be pushed upon people! How in your eyes does the Irish language do this in relation to Media.

    But yes it can be shoved down peoples throats in schools!


  • #49
    DyldeBrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭DyldeBrill


    An Coilean wrote: »
    We have Seachtain na Gaeilge, but all to often that just promotes the Cúpla Focal culture, and tokenism.
    I would like to see a Seachtain gan Béarla, like the campaign they run in UCD every year, people taking part refuse to speak English for the week, its along the lines of a 24 hour fast, except no English instead of no food.

    That way the use of Irish would be much more visible around the country, even if only for a week.

    You are on to something here! The only thing I would say is that Irish speakers would like people to speak Irish willingly, instead of sending out the image of "F**k English, Irish is our Language" because that's what some people pick up on.I'm all for people speaking English, we should get away from that argument,instead I'd like to see people wanting to join the Irish speaking community, and wanting to learn and speak Irish.


  • #50
    Undercover Elephant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 465 ✭✭Undercover Elephant


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    So, there's 3.8 million people who dont speak fluently.

    Of those, there's probably 2 million who could not care less about the Irish language. Maybe more.

    As an outside observer, I have to say that I don't agree with that. Most Irish people seem to regard the language with something between contempt and flat-out hostility.

    I think it would help if we stopped pretending that it had some special status and that it is somehow inherently superior to English. Then at least people could approach it in its own terms - part of the history of the island, a real language of (a small number of) real people and the store of a valuable body of literature.


  • #51
    DyldeBrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭DyldeBrill


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Why the hell do people even care about 'reviving' the Irish language when the country is in the absolute sh*tter for the forseeable future? What would this achieve other than anecdotally hearing two people converse in Irish the odd time and thinking: "Ah, isn't that nice?"

    It's uncompetitive of us to teach it at a compulsory level for every single year of someone's pre-university education. We're broke, remember? And the cost of translating every single document etc is such an enormous waste of cash, nevermind the enormous waste of time that is having students read Irish poetry or write Irish letters in class.

    Oh well, I'm sure there will be multiple deluded posters coming on here - who never bothered nearly the language in school but are feeling nostalgic - that will defend it on entirely unrealistic, wasteful, 'patriotic' reasons. Just remember though; the country is broke. Broke.

    ....also, we're broke.

    Again that is your view completely, which I respect, but you are not dealing with the matter of this thread!

    There is no arguing with people like you who have made their mind up, but what I was hoping to discuss in this thread, was how people view the Irish language within the media.

    Instead of ranting on how Irish is such a waste of time, maybe put forth the reason you find it so useless within the MEDIA.


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  • #52
    666irishguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭666irishguy


    Very little. To the majority it's just an annoying subject in school. I can't see the point in trying to revive it, preserving what's left of it is all that should be done. The fact that it is thought and touted so much at all is symptomatic of what's wrong with the way this country thinks. We spend millions every year, in effect forcing people to learn a language that is useless outside of our own small population. For the majority of the time it was thought in the past 70 years, people learned it only to emigrate to England or the some other English speaking country never to use it again. It's an idealistic nationalist hangover from the early days of the state. We'd be better off educating people with subjects they could practically apply in the real world.


  • #53
    DyldeBrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭DyldeBrill


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    This is a big country. Not trying to be smart, but there's more than just yourself in it.

    There are four million people here.

    I'd say there's maybe 200,000 tops who speak Irish fluently. That is, if you sat them down in front of Sean Ban Breathnach they could natter away to him in Irish for an hour or two.

    So, there's 3.8 million people who dont speak fluently.

    Of those, there's probably 2 million who could not care less about the Irish language. Maybe more. You are in the camp.

    But I would wager that there is a sizeable number, maybe half a million, who would like to be able to speak it well.

    In my view, this group has been actively discouraged from speaking it by the cultural zealots who created the Irish language syllabus for our school system.

    just to put to this that there is just over 2million people who use irish within this country.Now thats not saying that these people are fluent, but it shows that the majority of this country enjoy using it and do so willingly


  • #54
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    With due respect, you worded the topic title badly if you want a discussion of the Irish language in the media.

    Most people will only read the topic title: "What would help the Irish Language?"

    If you're lucky, they might read the first line: "People always have mixed thoughts when it comes to this subject, some positive, some negative, and that will forever live"

    But a lot of people are going to charge into this topic (myself included) having read that far and presuming that it's "Irish debate topic #324414"....

    EDIT: And can people realise that when you start using numbers, you won't get anywhere unless you source them. Coming up with what you think the numbers are or might be is a waste of time in discussions like this, cause without proper sources for figures, it does look like you're just making them up....


  • #55
    Cosmicfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 245 ✭✭Cosmicfox


    I'm just finished Leaving cert and I'm glad I'll never have to speak a word of it again, taking up German instead for college.

    There is plenty of advertisements for it and lots of awareness, but if someone doesn't like something no amount of ads is going to change their mind about it. In our school there was an essay competition to win a spot on some Irish langauge radio-station or something like that and they had to pester people to enter it as there was so little interest. Seachtain na gailge consisted of people getting a few stickers with hearts on them and that was about it.

    Making it optional in secondary schools seems like the only way to go in my opinion. That way people who enjoy it can learn it in peace without being disturbed by 20 other people who have zero interest, as what happened in my class. Then they could go on into media with others who are keen on speaking it having had a positive experience in school. People who don't want to do it could take up another subject or language.

    But of course, this has all been said before. If you had no interest in it while in school, your hardly going to switch on TG4.


  • #56
    DyldeBrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭DyldeBrill


    Teamshadowclan wrote: »
    With due respect, you worded the topic title badly if you want a discussion of the Irish language in the media.

    Most people will only read the topic title: "What would help the Irish Language?"

    If you're lucky, they might read the first line: "People always have mixed thoughts when it comes to this subject, some positive, some negative, and that will forever live"

    But a lot of people are going to charge into this topic (myself included) having read that far and presuming that it's "Irish debate topic #324414"....

    EDIT: And can people realise that when you start using numbers, you won't get anywhere unless you source them. Coming up with what you think the numbers are or might be is a waste of time in discussions like this, cause without proper sources for figures, it does look like you're just making them up....

    agreed , just would have been too long a title!

    In relation to figures I can pm some links or whatever you need shortly


  • #57
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    If you've got links, post them up here. If you've got stuff to make your case stronger, don't keep them private. If you want to bring up numbers, then back them up. :)


  • #58
    DyldeBrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭DyldeBrill


    Teamshadowclan wrote: »
    If you've got links, post them up here. If you've got stuff to make your case stronger, don't keep them private. If you want to bring up numbers, then back them up. :)

    Well If you look at The Census you will get a good idea of how many people say they have some sort of Irish,

    As I said earlier, according to the last Census of America, over 22,000 people stated that they speak in their home, and that is just the US.

    Getting off the topic a bit here.Title has been changed


  • #59
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    DyldeBrill wrote: »
    Again that is your view completely, which I respect, but you are not dealing with the matter of this thread!

    There is no arguing with people like you who have made their mind up, but what I was hoping to discuss in this thread, was how people view the Irish language within the media.

    Instead of ranting on how Irish is such a waste of time, maybe put forth the reason you find it so useless within the MEDIA.
    Nothing will help the irish language within the media because you're flogging a dead horse. People won't speak it because they don't want to speak it and all the snazzy advertisements and translations of Fun songs won't change that.


  • #60
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,263 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    We actually have 2 forums on this site dedicated to the language. Gaeilge (Irish) for grammar, translation, etymology, etc, and Teach na nGealt for general conversation trí mheán na Gaeilge. I'd love to see more activity in them, but a lot of people either a) don't know they're there, or b) couldn't be bothered to actually use the bit of Irish the have.

    Stop stressing about whether or not the language is "dying" and start actually using it. Radical or wha'?


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  • #61
    DyldeBrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭DyldeBrill


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    DyldeBrill wrote: »
    Again that is your view completely, which I respect, but you are not dealing with the matter of this thread!

    There is no arguing with people like you who have made their mind up, but what I was hoping to discuss in this thread, was how people view the Irish language within the media.

    Instead of ranting on how Irish is such a waste of time, maybe put forth the reason you find it so useless within the MEDIA.
    Nothing will help the irish language within the media because you're flogging a dead horse. People won't speak it because they don't want to speak it and all the snazzy advertisements and translations of Fun songs won't change that.

    Ugh I get tired of this ignoranc.

    Tell me in your opinion , has irish grown in the past 10 years

    So you know the fun song...great! Least that's one advertisement that you've heard.

    If bands such as bell x1 and so on have interest in writing and singing Irish songs,....then we are hardly flogging a dead horse would u say?


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