Gardi to tackle cycle menaces

Pawwed Rig · 05-10-2012 09:15AM

allibastor wrote: »

Just to say this, I was nearly hit by a squad car this morning.

I am a cyclist, i was crossing at a pedestrian crossing on the road as i could not safely cross the main road as it was full with cars. i was not pedeling, i was pushing the bike with my feet while in the saddle. The lady guard was driving in the bus lane, on the phone , with no lights or siren on. how do people expect cyclists to be safe when the cops themselves are a danger

I saw a Guard on Adelaide Road cycle through a red light there last week. Shouted at him that the light was red but he just cycled off. These are the guys tackling the 'cycle menace'

magicbastarder · 05-10-2012 09:57AM

i'm just wondering what penalty people think is fair for a cyclist running a red light.
a motorist will get a fine and i think two penalty points.

this morning, i was crossing over from the top of kildare street onto stephen's green, and crossed with the green man. after all the pedestrians cleared the crossing, a cyclist - who had been waiting at the lights for the pedestrians to clear - cycled through, against a red light (for him).
it's not a set of lights controlling a junction. what penalty do people think is fair here? the same as a motorist? less, if there is reduced danger involved given the vehicle involved?

seamus · 05-10-2012 09:59AM

€80 FPN or sacrifice your bike to be sold/destroyed.

DipStick McSwindler · 05-10-2012 10:11AM

This post has been deleted.

seamus · 05-10-2012 10:29AM

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

This is ridiculous..........

What's ridiculous about it?

Korvanica · 05-10-2012 10:49AM

seamus wrote: »

€80 FPN or sacrifice your bike to be sold/destroyed.

At least its an easy way to get rid of your old bikes that are too beat up to sell...

RobbieTheRobber · 05-10-2012 10:52AM

seamus wrote: »

What's ridiculous about it?

I know you know for a lot of the crap things cycled around as bikes this fine is more than double their value.

Korvanica wrote: »

At least its an easy way to get rid of your old bikes that are too beat up to sell...

Great way to get the BSO's off the road.
We could rename this fine the BSO scrappage scheme

JuliusCaesar · 05-10-2012 10:54AM

If you support a zero tolerance strategy, then that applies to everyone - motorist, motorcyclist, cyclist, pedestrian. Fines for jaywalking, crossing on the red man etc.

In Germany, pedestrians will wait at a red man even if the road is empty in both directions. I can't see that ever happening here.

When it's the individual vs the common good, the individual always wins here.

kylith · 05-10-2012 11:02AM

seamus wrote: »

Think about that logically for a second. In order to accomodate a 1.5m overtake, you at least need another 1m on the cyclist's left hand-side. Thefore the total space the cyclist requires is 1m + 0.5m (the width of the cyclist) + 1.5m = 3m. Which is about the maximum width of most traffic lanes in this country. In any case it will require you to cross the median, which requires the road to be clear of oncoming traffic.

A second cyclist will require another metre (0.5m clearance between the riders), which requires 4m clearance, which again requires you to cross the median, and for oncoming traffic to be clear.

Not to mention that both the cyclist and car are moving forward, so the car and bike will need that 3m clearance from the kerb for however long it takes to overtake.

magicbastarder · 05-10-2012 11:06AM

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

In Germany, pedestrians will wait at a red man even if the road is empty in both directions. I can't see that ever happening here.

a colleague was recently fined €5 for jaywalking in dusseldorf. the cop had a credit card terminal, and it was an on the spot fine in the sense that he had to pay up on the spot.

Pawwed Rig · 05-10-2012 11:20AM

I may be wrong but afaik there is no jaywalking laws in Ireland

keith16 wrote: »

As a cyclist, and motorist, I can say that pedestrians are easily among the most stupid road users I have come across.

That is either the most ridiculous or cleverest post on this thread. Can't decide if the cleverness was intended or not :rolleyes:

Jawgap · 05-10-2012 11:20AM

seamus wrote: »

€80 FPN or sacrifice your bike to be sold/destroyed.

I'd have no problem with that (except that I think the fine should be more) - if you jump the light and are caught you provide the Guard with valid id and he / she gives you the FPN - no id, the bike is impounded and you bring proof of payment to wherever they keep your bike to get it back, once of course you've paid for the storage of it.

If you don't pay the fine (say within 28 days) the bike is sold.

A quick blitz and reasonable level of ongoing enforcement would sort things out quickly - plus people on DBs would get a double-whammy as they'd be liable for the excess hire charges if the bike was impounded instead of returned.

magicbastarder · 05-10-2012 11:23AM

€80 fine for pedestrians crossing at red lights too?

JuliusCaesar · 05-10-2012 11:30AM

magicbastarder wrote: »

€80 fine for pedestrians crossing at red lights too?

And your shoes confiscated!

(Jaywalking is illegal I think)

seamus · 05-10-2012 11:31AM

Jawgap wrote: »

If you don't pay the fine (say within 28 days) the bike is sold.

Even better, get rothar involved. They assess the bike - if they think it can be sold for €150 or more, they fix it up and take 30% of the sale. If they don't think it's worth €150, they can scrap/strip it.
Win-win - parts and cash for rothar, minimal administration costs for the Gardai.

magicbastarder · 05-10-2012 11:35AM

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

(Jaywalking is illegal I think)

i had thought it was too, but it was pointed out above that it's only illegal if done with 15m of a pedestrian crossing, if you disobey the lights at the crossing.

Pawwed Rig · 05-10-2012 11:49AM

Wow that gives fair amount of powers to the State to issue fines. There is way too much legislation in this country. If all of the legislation was enforced my weekly wage would go in fines.

I'm off to turn myself in to the authorities. I am obviously a dangerous criminal that needs incarceration for my own and everyone else's safety.

Undercover Elephant · 05-10-2012 12:24PM

seamus wrote: »

€80 FPN or sacrifice your bike to be sold/destroyed.

Our friends across the puddle have a £30 FPN, with a possible reduction if you take an online safe cycling course in 14 days. I think this is about right - enough to be really annoying but not enough that Plod will think twice about giving it out.

Some of the scheme for motorists in Ireland is bonkers, quite frankly. €80 for rolling slowly through a stop sign, but €60 for driving on the wrong side of the road??

SerialComplaint · 05-10-2012 12:32PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Wow that gives fair amount of powers to the State to issue fines. There is way too much legislation in this country. If all of the legislation was enforced my weekly wage would go in fines.

Or else you would change your behaviour and stop breaking the law, perhaps?

The current fine for a cyclist breaking the lights is €80 - seems about right to me.

Pawwed Rig · 05-10-2012 12:42PM

That's true. Everyone breaks the law though whether that is walking across the road when the amber man is there rather than the green man, not stopping before the line at a stop sign (by accident or purposely), not yielding properly at a roundabout, not using cycle lanes etc etc
There is so much legislation in this country it would be impossible to go through life without breaking some of it.
Generally if people behave in a safe manner on the road I think the odd infraction should be (and is) over looked.

Undercover Elephant · 05-10-2012 12:52PM

SerialComplaint wrote: »

The current fine for a cyclist breaking the lights is €80

I don't think this is correct. That's the current fixed penalty for motorists. There's no fixed penalty for cyclists and it is down to the discretion of the judge. The going rate seems to be €120.

It's a real PITA for Gardai having to go to court for something which is a complete waste of time. I am speculating, but I would think they would be keener to enforce the law if they could give out fixed penalty notices instead, as long as they are pitched at the right level.

magicbastarder · 05-10-2012 12:54PM

gas that you get less of a fine for going through red lights in a car.

Jawgap · 05-10-2012 02:07PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

gas that you get less of a fine for going through red lights in a car.

But you get the two points - I wonder how much people would pay not to get those two points? In my experiemce, more people are pi$$ed at getting the points than the fine.

seamus · 05-10-2012 02:37PM

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

Some of the scheme for motorists in Ireland is bonkers, quite frankly. €80 for rolling slowly through a stop sign, but €60 for driving on the wrong side of the road??

This is true.
Drive along the wrong side of a road where oncoming traffic could be doing 120km/h - 2 points and €80, you naughty thing. Fail to present your car for a roadworthiness check - 5 points and €1,000 you evil monster, how could you?

Jawgap · 05-10-2012 02:45PM

seamus wrote: »

This is true.
Drive along the wrong side of a road where oncoming traffic could be doing 120km/h - 2 points and €80, you naughty thing. Fail to present your car for a roadworthiness check - 5 points and €1,000 you evil monster, how could you?

Far be it from an oul cynic like me to suggest it, but driving on the wrong side of the road costs the state nothing - fail to present your car for a roadworthiness check deprives the company (Applus) of money.

btw - driving on the footpad - 1pt or 3pts if you opt to go to court!

hatrickpatrick · 05-10-2012 02:54PM

When was the last time you saw a car weaving in and out of pedestrian crowds at high speed on the footpath?

For cyclists to suggest that cars are a greater danger to pedestrians in cities is complete bullsh!t. Cycling through a pedestrian crossing is simply unacceptable. I have rarely if ever seen a car do this, and I see cyclists do it every single day on Dame Street.

Jawgap · 05-10-2012 03:05PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

When was the last time you saw a car weaving in and out of pedestrian crowds at high speed on the footpath?

For cyclists to suggest that cars are a greater danger to pedestrians in cities is complete bullsh!t. Cycling through a pedestrian crossing is simply unacceptable. I have rarely if ever seen a car do this, and I see cyclists do it every single day on Dame Street.

Last Thursday when a Garda car came steaming at speed (with lights and siren) down Henry Street in Dublin. This morning I saw a large delivery truck reversing across the path at the junction of O'Connell and Talbot Street and my own favourite was the tool of taxi driver who obviously missed his turn and was reversing back along the M1 at the airport on Sunday.

I wasn't suggesting cyclists be excused - in fact I think anyone cycling on the path should be done for it and have their bike impounded. I also think pedestrians need to be fined for jaywalking and the points for offences should be massively increased - driving licences are a privilege not a right and if you can't respect that you don't deserve to hold one - and I'd have no problem with licence-holders such as myself who also cycle having points added to their driver's licence for offences committed while on the bike.

I agree breaking any red light on a bike or in a car is completely unacceptable as is walking into traffic when there's a perfectly good pedestrian crossing nearby.

I'd estimate that I see between three and six cars, buses and trucks break lights on my morning commute on the bike and a similar number in the evening - admittedly it is a fraction compared to the number of cyclists and pedestrians who fail to respect the rules of the road, but a terrifyingly high number given the potential for harm and damage one can inflict with a motor vehicle.

All it shows is that there are a lot of thoughful and thoughtless people out there walking, cycling and driving

RobbieTheRobber · 05-10-2012 03:05PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

When was the last time you saw a car weaving in and out of pedestrian crowds at high speed on the footpath?

For cyclists to suggest that cars are a greater danger to pedestrians in cities is complete bullsh!t. Cycling through a pedestrian crossing is simply unacceptable. I have rarely if ever seen a car do this, and I see cyclists do it every single day on Dame Street.

This post is a pure wind up right?

The statistics on road deaths prove without any doubt that the biggest danger to pedestrians is mechanically propelled vechicles and by that i mean mainly cars.

Madam Marie · 05-10-2012 03:07PM

Tackling cyclists is highly dangerous.

magicbastarder · 05-10-2012 03:10PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

For cyclists to suggest that cars are a greater danger to pedestrians in cities is complete bullsh!t.

to echo the post above - in the last 20 years in ireland, at most one pedestrian fatality can be linked to a cyclist.
i'm not even going to guess what the number of pedestrians killed by cars is.

Gardi to tackle cycle menaces

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