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Gardi to tackle cycle menaces

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  • #332
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    Kintarō Hattori wrote: »
    As a cyclist attitudes like that genuinely concern me. A bicycle is classed, by the law, as a vehicle. While on the road I behave just like that. I position myself on the road as a car, I don't skip red lights, I don't cycle on footpaths and I don't weave in-between traffic. I'm not alone.

    I treat everyone who uses the road with respect and only have a problem when someone acts out of line. I don't automatically decry any class of road user simply for the means that they use to get around.

    As I said, an attitude like that displayed above genuinely concerns me for my welfare while on the road and others like me.
    Yeah you do, but plenty of cyclists don't obey any rules of the road...


  • #333
    opti0nal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    cournioni wrote: »
    Yeah you do, but plenty of cyclists don't obey any rules of the road...
    78% of motorists break urban speed limits.

    Clearly, this must be the highest priority.

    Speed is key, reduce it and reaction times improve, thus avoiding collisions. If collisions happen, the severity of the impact is lessened at lower speeds.


  • #334
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    opti0nal wrote: »
    78% of motorists break urban speed limits.

    Clearly, this must be the highest priority.

    Speed is key, reduce it and reaction times improve, thus avoiding collisions. If collisions happen, the severity of the impact is lessened at lower speeds.
    Yeah, just as dangerous as breaking red lights and cycling on footpaths knocking people over. At least motorists stick to the road.


  • #335
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    cournioni wrote: »
    Yeah, just as dangerous as breaking red lights and cycling on footpaths knocking people over. At least motorists stick to the road.

    How many pedestrians and cyclists get killed by motorists each year? Compared to how many pedestrians get killed by cyclists on pavements?


  • #336
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    SerialComplaint wrote: »
    How many pedestrians and cyclists get killed by motorists each year? Compared to how many pedestrians get killed by cyclists on pavements?

    How many get killed/injured/scared by cyclists not yielding to pedestrians, as the figures aren't ( don't seem to be logged anywhere ) available we'll have to go by anecdotal evidence, which seems to point to the fact that cyclists are a load of unruly, law unto themselves thugs that think they are a cut above other road users because " We are cyclists and we matter more than other road users"


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  • #337
    AltAccount
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    ...which seems to point to the fact that cyclists are a load of unruly, law unto themselves thugs that think they are a cut above other road users because " We are cyclists and we matter more than other road users"

    So sayeth the taxi driver...


  • #338
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    AltAccount wrote: »
    So sayeth the taxi driver...

    Yep but unlike cyclists if I were doing things like that and get caught or involved in an accident I have
    a A license to be endorsed/suspended ( smug bit...yep it's clean! keeps fingers crossed to avoid tempting fate :) )
    b Insurance


  • #339
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    How many get killed/injured/scared by cyclists not yielding to pedestrians, as the figures aren't ( don't seem to be logged anywhere ) available we'll have to go by anecdotal evidence, which seems to point to the fact that cyclists are a load of unruly, law unto themselves thugs that think they are a cut above other road users because " We are cyclists and we matter more than other road users"

    Actually the lack of data means that you can't say anything substantive. You've then just appended your own daft opinion which is amusingly consistent with the crap you'd expect from a stereotypical taxi driver.


  • #340
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    mitosis wrote: »
    Which is just as likely to be down to the good driving skills of the motorists who manage to anticipate and avoid.

    Maybe the reason there is only a small number of cyclist fatalities is not because the cyclists are not doing something endangering, but that motorists have adapted to expect them to behave recklessly.

    The flaw in your logic is that all the stats and research indicates that motorists are at fault in the majority of cases, so good driving skills doesn't explain that.
    mitosis wrote: »
    The motorist is always at fault in a collision with a cyclist because she is supposed to expect the unexpected and react accordingly, because of the two, she is the one with training. Even when clearly not to blame, she is at fault. Like when a bike comes up the inside of a large vehicle at a left turn.

    The research and stats don't say drivers are always at fault. So thats flawed also. It does find that cyclists can be at fault.


  • #341
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Yeah, which is why I said that perhaps it's time that accidents involving cyclists were treated the same way as accidents involving motor vehicles, if there is an injury then the Gardai are required to be informed and the accident logged....

    You have a problem with that?

    Considering the whole thread is about the lack of enforcement of existing laws, I don't really see why adding more laws will change that.


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  • #342
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    charlietheminxx wrote: »
    ...But let me just put this out here. To everyone who has dismissed suggestions for cycle hemets, hi-vis gear, cycle tax, gardai enforcing the rules of the road for cyclists and whatever else has been suggested.... What do you suggest?...

    I suggest people read up on the subject before making suggestions that have been already tried and failed in other countries. Lots of information is in the thread, people just don't want to read it.

    The Gardai should be enforcing the rules of the road for everyone. That shouldn't need a campaign, it should be normal business for them.

    A cop positioned at any busy junction in Dublin would make a fortune in fines from cars and bicycles any morning of the week. But no fear of enforcement, mean people don't obey the rules.


  • #343
    opti0nal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    cournioni wrote: »
    Yeah, just as dangerous as breaking red lights and cycling on footpaths knocking people over. At least motorists stick to the road.
    ....only when they're not parking on the footpath or driving in cycle lanes.

    How can you say that cyclists breaking read lights are 'just as dangerous'? That's simply not true. The facts say otherwise.

    It's time for motorists to move from denial and accept the need for change.


  • #344
    AltAccount
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Yep but unlike cyclists if I were doing things like that and get caught or involved in an accident I have
    a A license to be endorsed/suspended ( smug bit...yep it's clean! keeps fingers crossed to avoid tempting fate :) )
    b Insurance

    How does any of that relate to or explain your Thugs rant?


  • #345
    washiskin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭washiskin


    Ok, I have one - happened just last night in fact.

    I was heading into town at around 9.20pm and had taken Whitworth Rd.. The lights at the junction of Drumcondra Rd / Dorset St are set back a few meters so that Busses etc. can swing around the left turn safely; the lights change and I'm moving forward and had just reached the centre of the left lane when out of the corner of my eye I spot this feckin' moron on a white mountain bike hurtling towards me from Binns Bridge - through the red light. He had to brake so hard that the back of the bike practically wrapped itself around his neck. No lights, no helmet and a hoodie over his head so he had no hope of seeing the traffic on either side of him either.
    Now there would have been quite a pause between the lights on Drm Rd / Dor St. turning red & me reaching the centre of the lane because of the way the junction is and I would have been going no more that 10-15kmph and but he paid no heed to the red lights & kept on going.
    I would have loved to hear his explaination for nearly ending up in the rear driver's side door and if he had hit me....well I reckon he would have seriously injured himself, if not worse.


  • #346
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    opti0nal wrote: »
    ....only when they're not parking on the footpath or driving in cycle lanes.

    How can you say that cyclists breaking read lights are 'just as dangerous'? That's simply not true. The facts say otherwise.

    It's time for motorists to move from denial and accept the need for change.
    Bull****, I can think of two people straight off hand that have been injured by cyclists on the footpath where there wasn't any cars parked in the cycle lanes, one ran into the back of my girlfriends calf, and the other that knocked my grandmother over which left her with a leg injury that she hasn't been able to fully recover from since.

    It is every bit as dangerous when cyclists break red lights and knock pedestrians over! You very rarely see motorists at it, yet you almost always see cyclists breaking red lights where pedestrians have the right of way.


  • #347
    cournioni
    Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,742 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    ... and another thing. The amount of bikes that I have seen recently coming in the wrong direction or on my side of the road is just as dangerous. If I hit the cyclist, it is not only their life ruined, but mine too. So cyclists, cop on, get those chips off your shoulder and start obeying some rules.


  • #348
    steve9859
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭steve9859


    washiskin wrote: »
    Ok, I have one - happened just last night in fact.

    I was heading into town at around 9.20pm and had taken Whitworth Rd.. The lights at the junction of Drumcondra Rd / Dorset St are set back a few meters so that Busses etc. can swing around the left turn safely; the lights change and I'm moving forward and had just reached the centre of the left lane when out of the corner of my eye I spot this feckin' moron on a white mountain bike hurtling towards me from Binns Bridge - through the red light. He had to brake so hard that the back of the bike practically wrapped itself around his neck. No lights, no helmet and a hoodie over his head so he had no hope of seeing the traffic on either side of him either.
    Now there would have been quite a pause between the lights on Drm Rd / Dor St. turning red & me reaching the centre of the lane because of the way the junction is and I would have been going no more that 10-15kmph and but he paid no heed to the red lights & kept on going.
    I would have loved to hear his explaination for nearly ending up in the rear driver's side door and if he had hit me....well I reckon he would have seriously injured himself, if not worse.


    Yet another 'this thing happened to me the other day and therefore all cyclists are ****s' post.


  • #349
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,213 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    BostonB wrote: »
    A cop positioned at any busy junction in Dublin would make a fortune in fines from cars and bicycles any morning of the week. But no fear of enforcement, mean people don't obey the rules.
    and jaywalking? you'd be happy to be fined for jaywalking?


  • #350
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    cournioni wrote: »
    Bull****, I can think of two people straight off hand that have been injured by cyclists on the footpath where there wasn't any cars parked in the cycle lanes, one ran into the back of my girlfriends calf, and the other that knocked my grandmother over which left her with a leg injury that she hasn't been able to fully recover from since.

    It is every bit as dangerous when cyclists break red lights and knock pedestrians over! You very rarely see motorists at it, yet you almost always see cyclists breaking red lights where pedestrians have the right of way.

    I can't think of any, maybe they're exceptions?

    As I've said previously in this thread it's legal here in Queensland, Australia to cycle on footpaths and everyone seems to get on just fine. There aren't pedestrians strewn in the gutter all over the place from cyclists mowing them down.

    I ultimately get your point that it's currently illegal to do it in Ireland but out of all the complaints people level at cyclists I never quite understand the footpath one.


  • #351
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    cournioni wrote: »
    get those chips off your shoulder
    The irony.


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  • #352
    Undercover Elephant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 465 ✭✭Undercover Elephant


    washiskin wrote: »
    Ok, I have one - happened just last night in fact.

    I was heading into town at around 9.20pm and had taken Whitworth Rd.. The lights at the junction of Drumcondra Rd / Dorset St are set back a few meters so that Busses etc. can swing around the left turn safely; the lights change and I'm moving forward and had just reached the centre of the left lane when out of the corner of my eye I spot this feckin' moron on a white mountain bike hurtling towards me from Binns Bridge - through the red light. He had to brake so hard that the back of the bike practically wrapped itself around his neck. No lights, no helmet and a hoodie over his head so he had no hope of seeing the traffic on either side of him either.
    Now there would have been quite a pause between the lights on Drm Rd / Dor St. turning red & me reaching the centre of the lane because of the way the junction is and I would have been going no more that 10-15kmph and but he paid no heed to the red lights & kept on going.
    I would have loved to hear his explaination for nearly ending up in the rear driver's side door and if he had hit me....well I reckon he would have seriously injured himself, if not worse.
    So ... what you're saying is that despite the cyclist breaking several rules and riding idiotically, no one was hurt and no damage was done?


  • #353
    frankythefish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭frankythefish


    i reckon all cyclists using our roads should have to undergo an intelligence test before getting on the roads. there really are some proper lemons going around on those 2 wheeled objects


  • #354
    charlietheminxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭charlietheminxx


    This is a circular argument. It's so frustrating to read.

    Most cyclists are grand.

    Some cyclists are dangerous eejits who put themselves and others at risk.. That's not conjecture, it's a fact. So people telling stories aren't generalising all cyclists, they're just saying it happens, and it's a frequent occurence. Some drivers are woeful, but the fact that there are bad drivers out there DOES NOT condone these cyclists disobeying the rules of the road because drivers do. Of all the arguments I'm seeing here, this keeps coming up, and to be honest it's the most immature attitude to road safety. It's sickening.


  • #355
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,213 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    charlietheminxx wrote: »
    Some cyclists are dangerous eejits who put themselves and others at risk.. That's not conjecture, it's a fact. So people telling stories aren't generalising all cyclists, they're just saying it happens, and it's a frequent occurence. Some drivers are woeful, but the fact that there are bad drivers out there DOES NOT condone these cyclists disobeying the rules of the road because drivers do. Of all the arguments I'm seeing here, this keeps coming up, and to be honest it's the most immature attitude to road safety. It's sickening.
    no-one is arguing that there are not stupid cyclists out there.
    the problem is that people are claiming it's a clampdown on cyclists which will make the difference to road safety; but this will have marginal impact on incidents, and potentially deter people from cycling.
    it obviously will have positive effects, but the effort involved may be better spent on other road safety issues. like removing all the cyclist-hostile cycle facilities, like badly designed cycle lanes.

    it's a point i find myself repeating a lot these days - cyclists are between pedestrians and motorists on a continuum, which would continue on to HGVs. i'd place cyclists nearer pedestrians than cars on that continuum, but there is a large body of opinion which would place them on the same level as cars, which i'd have big issues with. but it's that view which creates a lot of friction like in the threads above.


  • #356
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,624 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    washiskin wrote: »
    Ok, I have one - happened just last night in fact.

    I was heading into town at around 9.20pm and had taken Whitworth Rd.. The lights at the junction of Drumcondra Rd / Dorset St are set back a few meters so that Busses etc. can swing around the left turn safely; the lights change and I'm moving forward and had just reached the centre of the left lane when out of the corner of my eye I spot this feckin' moron on a white mountain bike hurtling towards me from Binns Bridge - through the red light. He had to brake so hard that the back of the bike practically wrapped itself around his neck. No lights, no helmet and a hoodie over his head so he had no hope of seeing the traffic on either side of him either.
    .
    nice story, should have just squashed him and done everyone a favour. One less menace for us all to deal with


  • #357
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    charlietheminxx wrote: »
    So people telling stories aren't generalising all cyclists, they're just saying it happens, and it's a frequent occurence.

    And the sky is blue and birds sing. People expending their energy pointing out the obvious - that some people who use the roads are retards - is usually known as whinging and it serves no purpose.

    Whinging about "you know what I saw a cyclist do today", is frequently used as justification for abusing all cyclists, or for violence against cyclists. This is the reason that the "car drivers do it too" argument comes up to counter it - because attacking all cyclists on the basis of the actions of some cyclists is retarded. The point is that the mode of transport is irrelevant. Some people are idiots and ignore the rules of the road. We know this, why the need to separate them into categories of idiots, why not just moan about all idiots?


  • #358
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    About time the cyclists are made responsible as any other road user for disregarding rules.


  • #359
    frankythefish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭frankythefish


    i think in truth we should be thankful that these 'innocent' cycling folk are cycling and not driving a vehicle


  • #360
    Undercover Elephant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 465 ✭✭Undercover Elephant


    charlietheminxx wrote: »
    This is a circular argument. It's so frustrating to read.
    It would be less frustrating if you read it properly.

    Given that:
    - some cyclists are idiots
    - some drivers are idiots
    - most road injuries are caused by drivers
    - most car-bike collisions are caused by drivers
    - very few injuries are caused by cyclists

    (These are not opinions, they are empirical, verifiable facts.)

    ... then, given limited Garda resources, cracking down on bad cycling rather than bad driving is irrational.


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  • #361
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,213 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    EnterNow wrote: »
    About time the cyclists are made responsible as any other road user for disregarding rules.
    why, though? why should a cyclist face the same penalty as a car driver for breaking a red light, when a car breaking a light is many times more dangerous than a cyclist doing it?
    is it not fair to suggest that the penalty is commensurate with the danger of the manouevre?

    edit: i read your post first as 'as responsible', which would imply a similar level of punishment; re-reading, you may not have been implying that.


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