Auditor-general's report on Motor tax

ardmacha · 27-09-2012 7:06pm #1

http://www.audgen.gov.ie/documents/annualreports/2011/report/en/Chapter26.pdf

Over 7% of vehicles travelling on the M50 on the sampled dates did not have current motor tax.
When vehicles where the tax had expired within one month of the date of travel are excluded, the apparent rate of evasion was about 5%.
Just under half of the vehicles identified as not having a valid tax disc on the sampled dates were taxed three months later. Payment covered the period of travel in less than half of these cases.

bobin fudge · 27-09-2012 7:36pm

if tax was a lot lower more people would pay and probably more revenue than at the moment with the current rates

27-09-2012 7:42pm

bobin fudge wrote: »

if tax was a lot lower more people would pay and probably more revenue than at the moment with the current rates

Yeah I love the way the compare to the uk's rate of compliance. Shockingly different rates, I would have no problem paying uk rates year in year out.

Voodoomelon · 27-09-2012 8:01pm

I still think that the figures displayed both here and in RoverJames poll are largely optimistic. You can be sure there's a much higher compliance rate around the M50; the national figure has to be at least 20% not taxed, probably way more.

bobin fudge · 27-09-2012 8:07pm

I tax my car about 3 maybe 6 months of the year, granted I have a garage and the months I am not taxed I dont drive but if the tax rates were alot lowere I for one would probably tax the car the whole year round instead of picking and choosing.

Cuddlesworth · 27-09-2012 8:13pm

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I still think that the figures displayed both here and in RoverJames poll are largely optimistic. You can be sure there's a much higher compliance rate around the M50; the national figure has to be at least 20% not taxed, probably way more.

Why? Not to be smart but I have never been stopped at a checkpoint when travelling at rush hour. If you only used a car for commuting, your chances of being caught would be at near 0.

CiniO · 27-09-2012 8:23pm

ardmacha wrote: »

Over 7% of vehicles travelling on the M50 on the sampled dates did not have current motor tax.

It generally is very not representative measure.

I know plenty of people who drive cars without tax, insurance, nct, driving licence, etc...
Those people never been caught, and most likely never will if nothing will change about roadchecks in rural areas. I personally never seen a roadcheck over last 5 years within 20km radius from my home.
But all those people would never even think of driving through m50.

So while 7% of vehicles were untaxed on m50, then if they set up such checkpoint in my area, it would more likely be over 50%.

27-09-2012 8:26pm

CiniO wrote: »

...........

So while 7% of vehicles were untaxed on m50, then if they set up such checkpoint in my area, it would more likely be over 50%.

And the size of the respective data pools wouldn't be similar either

ShadowHearth · 27-09-2012 8:28pm

girl at work drives 1.3 KA ad she complains about paying tax... :rolleyes:

made me want to give her a good wee slap, after i payed 360eu for both cars 3 month tax.

_Kaiser_ · 27-09-2012 8:30pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Why? Not to be smart but I have never been stopped at a checkpoint when travelling at rush hour. If you only used a car for commuting, your chances of being caught would be at near 0.

I think his point is that your chance of running across a Garda car in Dublin is a LOT higher than in the countryside. Bearing in mind a lot/most? of these now have ANPR cameras fitted, the days of needing a checkpoint to pull you over are long gone

Contrast that to when I was living in the country - nearest Garda station was 20 mins away and I could easily go a fortnight without even passing a squad car on the road

CiniO · 27-09-2012 8:30pm

RoverJames wrote: »

And the size of the respective data pools wouldn't be similar either

True, but there is hundreds of places in Ireland like the one I live.
There is only one m50 though.

27-09-2012 8:42pm

CiniO wrote: »

.........
There is only one m50 though.

But there's Cork city, Galway City, Limerick City etc etc etc where the vast majority of people drive taxed cars

People don't just tax the car because they use the M50.

There's probably 50 thousand cars travelling the M50 daily, it's no doubt representative enough of the motor tax compliance in Dublin City and the other cities in Ireland imo.

Logically the figure drops when cars out less than a month are omitted.

awec · 27-09-2012 8:49pm

This post has been deleted.

Voodoomelon · 27-09-2012 8:59pm

^^Whilst what you say is obviously true, do you believe the tax system is fair?

challengemaster · 27-09-2012 9:06pm

awec wrote: »

Everyone knows the tax rate of the car before you buy it. There really is no excuse for non-compliance.

If you feel you are paying too much motor tax, buy a car in a lower tax bracket.

On these two points:

When was the last time motor tax (CC linked) decreased? How do you know someone hasn't had the same car for 10 years and had continually increasing motor tax over that period? It's not a fair assumption that "Sure you know before you buy, your own fault"

There's also a slight issue with the second part... Large engined = large tax cars aren't really in demand. You can't just expect someone to sell their car and buy another one to satisfy tax demands. People shouldn't be limited by what car they want to drive by a ridiculous tax system.

hyperborean · 27-09-2012 9:07pm

Car tax should be opt out, if its registered in your name the tax gets paid unless you prove its not using the roads. This however is not going to happen and the real issue>

Its the mentality of some people, a girl who works with us has not taxed her car since 2010, she is forever moaning about having no money while out smoking, and only last weekend had her bathroom re-done,"all new fittings and tiles the works, only 3 grand, bloody bargain"

Bruthal · 27-09-2012 9:09pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

girl at work drives 1.3 KA ad she complains about paying tax... :rolleyes:

made me want to give her a good wee slap, after i payed 360eu for both cars 3 month tax.

People dont have a right to be unhappy with motor tax rates then, if their car is smaller than yours?

awec · 27-09-2012 9:10pm

This post has been deleted.

CiniO · 27-09-2012 9:14pm

hyperborean wrote: »

Car tax should be opt out, if its registered in your name the tax gets paid unless you prove its not using the roads.

Why should I need to prove to anyone that I'm not using my car.
If they want me to pay tax on it, it's up to them to prove I'm using it.
TBH there shouldn't be any motortax at all. That's my opinion.

Its the mentality of some people, a girl who works with us has not taxed her car since 2010, she is forever moaning about having no money while out smoking, and only last weekend had her bathroom re-done,"all new fittings and tiles the works, only 3 grand, bloody bargain"

Think about it.
You paid your motortax but have old bathroom. She's got brand new bathroom, but no motortax.
Who ended up worse?

Supergurrier · 27-09-2012 9:16pm

You can bet compliance on the m50 is a bad way of getting a real feel for tax evasion tbh, go out the country for the real figures

Bruthal · 27-09-2012 9:19pm

hyperborean wrote: »

Car tax should be opt out, if its registered in your name the tax gets paid unless you prove its not using the roads. This however is not going to happen and the real issue>

Its the mentality of some people, a girl who works with us has not taxed her car since 2010, she is forever moaning about having no money while out smoking, and only last weekend had her bathroom re-done,"all new fittings and tiles the works, only 3 grand, bloody bargain"

Did she collect the tiles in the car?

27-09-2012 9:22pm

Supergurrier wrote: »

You can bet compliance on the m50 is a bad way of getting a real feel for tax evasion tbh, go out the country for the real figures

Because anywhere not on the M50 is "out the country" ?

If you go out the country you are not seeing the picture in urban areas

RustyNut · 27-09-2012 9:24pm

It won't be long before the powers that be cop on and anyone that drives passed a go safe van in an untaxed car gets a fine and demand for back tax in the post.

Supergurrier · 27-09-2012 9:25pm

RoverJames wrote: »

Because anywhere not on the M50 is "out the country" ?

If you go out the country you are not seeing the picture in urban areas

You are assuming i live in an Urban area, i don't not even close tbh, people on the M50 are much much more likely to have a valid tax disc out of neccesity.

All i am saying is it's a very narrow view of motor tax compliance

dar83 · 27-09-2012 9:31pm

I wonder what the stats were for the amount of cars on NI/UK plates on that day. I'm sure they'd find it's close to 5%.

Not that this has any meaning to their poll whatsoever, unless they counted them towards the "no tax" total. But they're all over the M50 Southbound every morning and for people who have an apparent better appreciation for road rules than us Down Southers, they don't half not use their indicators for anything on a Motorway! :P

27-09-2012 9:31pm

I'm not assuming anything about where you live

As I said focussing on out the country is no more accurate of the overall picture.

OU812 · 27-09-2012 9:34pm

Put the tax on the fuel.

100% compliance, zero cost for processing disks, compliance etc.

Matt Simis · 27-09-2012 10:14pm

Supergurrier wrote: »

You can bet compliance on the m50 is a bad way of getting a real feel for tax evasion tbh, go out the country for the real figures

What real figures? The majority of the population live in Leinster and significant number of those use the M50. I used it twice today and live near the centre of Meath.

Given the huge number of cars on the M50 and the fact its located in this countries major population centre, this is the most meaningful statistic as its going to be numerically driven, ie survey the largest pool. If a large percet of a small number of vehicles dont pay tax anywhere else, who cares? At a national level, its not significant.

Supergurrier · 27-09-2012 10:20pm

The vast majority of Irish drivers don't use the m50 on a daily basis

All i am saying is compliance will always be higher in more built up areas where the chances of being caught are much higher

_Kaiser_ · 27-09-2012 10:26pm

OU812 wrote: »

Put the tax on the fuel.

100% compliance, zero cost for processing disks, compliance etc.

As usual the problem with this solution is that it assumes everyone lives in cities and/or has viable public transport options to get where they need to be which is rarely the case once you leave Dublin.

Besides they already take enough tax on fuel as it is

Voodoomelon · 27-09-2012 10:28pm

A list of the 20 largest cities/towns in Ireland:

Dublin 1,110,627
Cork 198,582
Limerick 91,454
Galway 76,778
Waterford 51,519
Drogheda 38,578
Dundalk 37,816
Swords 36,924
Bray 31,872
Navan 28,559
Ennis 25,360
Kilkenny 24,423
Tralee 23,693
Carlow 23,030
Newbridge 21,561
Naas 20,713
Athlone 20,153
Portlaoise 20,145
Mullingar 20,103
Wexford 20,072

Total: 1,921,962, 44% of the population.

Many of the above would also be pushing the "urban" title. So yes, I would say motor tax compliance in rural areas are 'somewhat' significant in the overall picture.

Auditor-general's report on Motor tax

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