Quality of CV's

Nody · 19-09-2012 12:16PM

Honey-ec wrote: »

I think 99% of statistics are made up on the spot, but that doesn't make it true.

Not true, research among cats show a clear 8 out of 10 paw correlation to the sigma factor to the third quadrant which proves that's it is in fact only 95%.

krd · 19-09-2012 11:12PM

Honey-ec wrote: »

I think 99% of statistics are made up on the spot, but that doesn't make it true.

I think, ten to twenty percent of the time you could be right.

But surveys have shown, 9 times out of 10, people like you are wrong.

joedared · 20-09-2012 12:26PM

any where to get C.V.'s reviewed? or maybe even cover letters to be reviewed.
I have been applying for jobs since Feb. occassionally I would get a reply that says thank you we have recieved your application. But thats rare.
I would be happy to even get an interview

Procrastastudy · 20-09-2012 12:37PM

joedared wrote: »

any where to get C.V.'s reviewed? or maybe even cover letters to be reviewed.
I have been applying for jobs since Feb. occassionally I would get a reply that says thank you we have recieved your application. But thats rare.
I would be happy to even get an interview

What type of job? If its retail sales redact your specific personal information and I'll try and give you some pointers if you PM me. I'm away til Monday though.

joedared · 20-09-2012 12:43PM

more to do with property management and facilities as i have a background in construction. Thank you foer your offer.
Not too sure how to PM

Toast4532 · 20-09-2012 02:41PM

Is Arial font in size 10 good on a C.V? It's the only way to get my C.V onto one page.

If I have the font at size 11 or 12, only the testimonials are on the second page.

Jim2007 · 20-09-2012 08:54PM

Toast4532 wrote: »

Is Arial font in size 10 good on a C.V? It's the only way to get my C.V onto one page.

If I have the font at size 11 or 12, only the testimonials are on the second page.

Don't be worried about the extra page, it is more important that it can be read.. but at the same time just remember that more is often not better, it's just more!

The most important thing is that it is well structured and easy for me to find the information I'm looking for. The first filter in any recruiting process is to answer the following questions:
- Do you have the right to work here?
- Do you have the required education?
- Do you have the required skill set?
- Do you have the required years of experience?

This is also very important when you submit a CV to a agency. Some junior is going to have to key your stuff in to their database, so the easier you make it for them the better the chance you will come up on their search lists.

Procrastastudy · 20-09-2012 10:10PM

Toast4532 wrote: »

Is Arial font in size 10 good on a C.V? It's the only way to get my C.V onto one page.

If I have the font at size 11 or 12, only the testimonials are on the second page.

CVs should not have (IMO) testomials, references, swimming certificates or pictures of your pets attached to them. It should simply state your information focusing on skills, education and experiance. If you have enough of those to go to two, three or twenty pages then you should. You would need to be very highly qualifed or experainced to need over two pages though.

Examples My CV runs to two pages:

15 years retail experiance across 5 employers (listed). Some may say that's overkill but it shows how I got to where I was. 1/3 page on education including my ATC (Air Cadets in the UK Quals) 1/8 page on hobbies and interests. 1/8 page of key skills.

Wife's CV runs to two pages:

Phd, MA and BA - two / three jobs hers is mainly skill based as a list of projects and specialisations are needed when she applies.

Hers - changes (tailored) every job she applies for. Mine - maybe gets one or two words changed.

maxwell smart · 21-09-2012 12:50PM

Just a bit to add to my original post and to give my 2 cents on some of the other points raised,

Swimming certificates are defiantly not of interest to employers (unless job is at a swimming pool I guess), but I have had plenty of them on the various applications so far.
Also, one application is enough. If you applied last week and the job is still advertised, it doesn't mean that you should send your CV in again!
Pictures...I'm in two minds on these. About 20% have them on. if you are going to send one in, face and shoulders are enough, I have had one of someone posing at their fireplace and another on someone standing in their garden, both full length shots.
For questions about the font, something clear not fancy.

dudara · 21-09-2012 07:11PM

I never really thought about fonts too much - until I was involved in screening about 200 grad CVs last year. That made me realise how horrible Times New Roman is, particularly in CVs.

Simple clean formats - and make sure to use .doc or PDF format (over .docx). There are still a fair few people out there without the latest version of Microsoft Office.

The Big Red Button · 21-09-2012 07:20PM

Toast4532 wrote: »

Is Arial font in size 10 good on a C.V? It's the only way to get my C.V onto one page.

If I have the font at size 11 or 12, only the testimonials are on the second page.

Even the word "testimonial" is so American!

My CV states at the end "References available on request." That's all that is required. Your experience should speak for itself. References are only a verification, once you've gotten the job.

Personally I'd go for TNR font, size 11/12. I don't like it, but it's universally acceptable.

Lyaiera · 24-09-2012 06:21PM

I am absolutely amazed at how many people are recommending using .doc. Surely it's far better to use .rtf for your non-PDF CV. It's much cheaper and easier for non-Word word processors to implement, it has far less formatting issues across word processors and it's much less likely to be flagged as spam or a virus in an attachment to an e-mail.

haulagebasher · 24-09-2012 06:51PM

I strongly disagree with the anti PDF pro .doc opinion.

When transferring documents between word versions all sorts of formatting issues can arise. Text jumbled up etc.

Plus a PDF is read only and overall is a cleaner easier to read format.

Think about it, when companies publish documents online do they use read only PDFs or format problem prone, editable .docs.

Gary The Gamer · 24-09-2012 07:10PM

I have a single page CV produced using Latex. I only ever use PDF as the conversion to a doc file ruins it. One recruiter gave me some gip over this before so I didn't do business with them. Any employer who has a problem opening up a pdf document is not someone I want to work for.

Procrastastudy · 24-09-2012 07:55PM

Gary The Gamer wrote: »

I have a single page CV produced using Latex. I only ever use PDF as the conversion to a doc file ruins it. One recruiter gave me some gip over this before so I didn't do business with them. Any employer who has a problem opening up a pdf document is not someone I want to work for.

Just a quick point on anyone applying for retail and jobs in large chains. Many EPOS and corporate systems have issues with PDFs.

Lyaiera · 25-09-2012 12:24AM

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Just a quick point on anyone applying for retail and jobs in large chains. Many EPOS and corporate systems have issues with PDFs.

And what exactly does an "Electronic Point of Sale" system have to do with recruitment?

Mr. Loverman · 25-09-2012 07:27AM

Lyaiera wrote: »

I am absolutely amazed at how many people are recommending using .doc. Surely it's far better to use .rtf for your non-PDF CV. It's much cheaper and easier for non-Word word processors to implement, it has far less formatting issues across word processors and it's much less likely to be flagged as spam or a virus in an attachment to an e-mail.

I see a lot of CVs every day and the .rtf ones always look rubbish!

.doc all the way in my opinion...

The Big Red Button · 25-09-2012 07:36AM

I found that most jobs I applied for on irishjobs specifically asked for a Word CV. So I just sent it in .doc format.

If a format wasn't specified, I sent it either in both .doc and .pdf, or else just .pdf.

I found that any agencies I applied for always wanted .doc, while companies I sent my CV to directly didn't seem to mind about the format. I really don't like the idea of an agency messing around with my CV and then resending it, without me even seeing it again first.

Procrastastudy · 25-09-2012 08:22AM

Lyaiera wrote: »

And what exactly does an "Electronic Point of Sale" system have to do with recruitment?

Many retailers just get some crappy back end on a EPOS system through the back. I've worked for three large retail chains here with that setup and none of them could open pdfs. If I was in an incredibly good mood I would e-mail the person back. 90% of the time I employed someone else.

[Jackass] · 25-09-2012 08:24AM

maxwell smart wrote: »

I have been tasked with recruiting 3 sales people for the company I work for. I thought it would be easy in this climate, but after going through 125 CV's this morning only 2 are any use and even then its a bit of a reach for one of them.

If I can give some advice to people, when sending the CV have your name somewhere in the file name, don't just send the file named 'cv'.I had 27 of these this morning and nearly just deleted them, instead I renamed all of them to correspond with the sender.
And don't have it called 'Joe Bloggs sales jobs CV'... that's obvious that you are working the wording. People know you are anyway, just don't be so blatant.

And as a contact email address, perhaps have a think before you put your regular one in...'jenniehotstuff@whatever' gives a certain impression!!

Also, do people even look at the job they are applying for? Try to send a relevant CV.

The length of the CV needs to be 2-3 pages maximum. And the font, please pick something simple and plain.

And personally I don't like .PDF CV's but that is just me.

Also, please, please, please check both the grammar and the spelling. There is no excuse with spell check.

Hopefully some of these points will help you look at your own CV and improve it a little.

PM'd u my cv. Its under CV4.pdf, your going to like it. On page 4 is my sales experience. well it wasnt sales but was office work. Any follow up questions your welcome to mail me YoreMaSucks@Balls.ie.

Hope to be working with you're company soon, there going to be impressed with it to hopefully.

maxwell smart · 25-09-2012 03:13PM

[Jackass] wrote: »

PM'd u my cv. Its under CV4.pdf, your going to like it. On page 4 is my sales experience. well it wasnt sales but was office work. Any follow up questions your welcome to mail me YoreMaSucks@Balls.ie.

Hope to be working with you're company soon, there going to be impressed with it to hopefully.

The scary part is you are so close to some of the "documents" I have received!

Got one on Monday where his work experience told a story....not in the good sense, more like this "Well I started in Company X in '98 doing Y then I moved to Company W 'cause the old place closed down due to bad sales (i was in charge of sales there)..then I had a run in with the boss in company W and had to leave it...etc.etc"
Was it you?!?!?!?:D

Nody · 25-09-2012 03:44PM

maxwell smart wrote: »

The scary part is you are so close to some of the "documents" I have received!

Got one on Monday where his work experience told a story....not in the good sense, more like this "Well I started in Company X in '98 doing Y then I moved to Company W 'cause the old place closed down due to bad sales (i was in charge of sales there)..then I had a run in with the boss in company W and had to leave it...etc.etc"
Was it you?!?!?!?:D

Sounds like a guy I interviewed once; did he do a pottery painting FAS course but really wanted to do digital movies but did not make the cut at University for it (yes the candidate brought up both while being interviewed for a tech job as second line support among other things...)?

Turtwig · 25-09-2012 06:23PM

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Many retailers just get some crappy back end on a EPOS system through the back. I've worked for three large retail chains here with that setup and none of them could open pdfs. If I was in an incredibly good mood I would e-mail the person back. 90% of the time I employed someone else.

Can I ask did the job application advertisements specify that the CV needs to be submitted in a certain format?
If not, then you've basically not given equal opportunities to everyone applying. Because of your own technical incompetence or lack of resources folks weren't given equal opportunity for assessment. If the recruiter doesn't specify the CV format then if they don't receive something in the correct format they're obliged to ask for a re-submission. Not ignore it because they couldn't be arsed or whatever. That would simply be admitting incompetence at your own job.

Gary The Gamer · 25-09-2012 06:25PM

We're probably talking about two different job markets here. The low end stuff where docs and recruiter interfereance are the norm and the more considered approach to recruitment where your cv lands directly on the desk of a non hr person.

Procrastastudy · 25-09-2012 07:36PM

Jernal wrote: »

Can I ask did the job application advertisements specify that the CV needs to be submitted in a certain format?
If not, then you've basically not given equal opportunities to everyone applying. Because of your own technical incompetence or lack of resources folks weren't given equal opportunity for assessment. If the recruiter doesn't specify the CV format then if they don't receive something in the correct format they're obliged to ask for a re-submission. Not ignore it because they couldn't be arsed or whatever. That would simply be admitting incompetence at your own job.

If a person cant be bothered to ask how their CV should be submitted then its their own hard cheese. I've never seen discrimination based on document formats - is that between religious beliefs and sexual orientation?

Under what theory do you think and employer is obliged to ask for resubmission? There was no job advertisement I probably got 50 unsolicited CVs a week.

It was neither technical incompetence or lack or resources. The company's IT policy dictated what format 800 stores could and could not accept.

Turtwig · 25-09-2012 07:41PM

If there was no job advertisement then you're fine. If there was though and the format was never specified then the obligatory thing to do would be contact folks who submitted documents in the wrong format, apologise and ask them to resubmit.

Procrastastudy · 25-09-2012 08:07PM

Jernal wrote: »

If there was no job advertisement then you're fine. If there was though and the format was never specified then the obligatory thing to do would be contact folks who submitted documents in the wrong format, apologise and ask them to resubmit.

Given the 30 minutes a week the average retail manager gets for recruitment when would you suggest someone do this?

If someone cant engage the grey matter enough to ensure your CV is in the right format or attach different formats or indeed read the occasional on line forum where someone with a lot of experience in a particular industry posts to warn people to be careful and gets a lecture from someone then they can stay on the dole queue as far as I'm concerned.

Still wondering under what theory there would be any obligation to do anything with applications.

Turtwig · 25-09-2012 09:02PM

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Given the 30 minutes a week the average retail manager gets for recruitment when would you suggest someone do this?

If someone cant engage the grey matter enough to ensure your CV is in the right format or attach different formats or indeed read the occasional on line forum where someone with a lot of experience in a particular industry posts to warn people to be careful and gets a lecture from someone then they can stay on the dole queue as far as I'm concerned.

Still wondering under what theory there would be any obligation to do anything with applications.

Dear <>

Thank you for expressing your interest in joining out team at <whatever>. Unfortunately we cannot process your application in its current format. If you could resubmit your application in the .<insert format here> format we'd gladly consider it in our recruitment process.

Best Regards,
<>

<Save template>

Save that email template(probably best to make a better one though.), and reply as your browse the emails. Not that hard, might add maybe ten minutes, surely not twenty! to your working day.

Under the theory of decency, for one. People send in their CV in the hope of getting a job. Yes some will be rubbish, but some won't. If you can't view the document then the courteous thing to do is inform that person. Unless the job application specifically stated otherwise. If there was no application and it was just a CV spam bomb you are free to do what you wish with it but if it's in response to a job advertisement where the desired CV format was never specified then you are obliged to at least view the CV.

PDF format is generally regarded as the most professional and most portable. Unless specified otherwise I always send PDF first because it's usually the nicest. (Ever seen an identical CV produced in LaTeX vs one produced in Word? Massive difference!)

Procrastastudy · 25-09-2012 09:59PM

Jernal wrote: »

Dear <>

Thank you for expressing your interest in joining out team at <whatever>. Unfortunately we cannot process your application in its current format. If you could resubmit your application in the .<insert format here> format we'd gladly consider it in our recruitment process.

Best Regards,
<>

<Save template>

Save that email template(probably best to make a better one though.), and reply as your browse the emails. Not that hard, might add maybe ten minutes, surely not twenty! to your working day.

Under the theory of decency, for one. People send in their CV in the hope of getting a job. Yes some will be rubbish, but some won't. If you can't view the document then the courteous thing to do is inform that person. Unless the job application specifically stated otherwise. If there was no application and it was just a CV spam bomb you are free to do what you wish with it but if it's in response to a job advertisement where the desired CV format was never specified then you are obliged to at least view the CV.

PDF format is generally regarded as the most professional and most portable. Unless specified otherwise I always send PDF first because it's usually the nicest. (Ever seen an identical CV produced in LaTeX vs one produced in Word? Massive difference!)

You're off assuming again in regard to how locked down these systems are.

You also keep using the word obliged. I'm afraid my position is that the onus is on the person sending in the CV. Far too many people never bother to do the pre-work or follow up. My time is limited - an applicants is plentiful. If in doubt check with the employer. All this is easily avoided by furnishing a paper copy.

In all honesty having had some great success in my hiring over the years - I didn't enter into this conversation to justify myself. I am stating for those that are interested in getting retail work not to just bang your CV off in the format that is most convenient for you - heed my advice or don't it's your call.

dudara · 25-09-2012 10:02PM

Lyaiera wrote: »

I am absolutely amazed at how many people are recommending using .doc. Surely it's far better to use .rtf for your non-PDF CV.

One of my clients uses Open Source software. They have massive issues opening .rtf and .docx.

Stick to the traditionals of .doc and PDF.

Quality of CV's

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