The UVF

Fenian Army · 03-09-2012 04:55PM #1

Last year we had a UVF orchestrated attack on the Short Strand. Last night we had UVF orchestrated riots in which over 40 PSNI members were injured.
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/24342

There have been many other incidents too.

All from an organization which has supposedly "civilianized" and decommissioned.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/27/the-truth-about-belfasts-riots

Last year the Unionist politicians fell over themselves to enter into dialog with the UVF, they got what they wanted, now we have orchestrate violence to try and get the same again, with regards to parades.

I thought we were supposed to be living in a new era, or are unionists as tied up with and ambivalent towards loyalist paramilitaries as ever?

There has been a serious lack of outright, meaningful condemnation of the UVF from Unionists.

Fenian Army · 03-09-2012 05:09PM

The loyalists fun day out last night also included the petrol bombing of a house with five kids inside.

poeticseraphim · 03-09-2012 05:18PM

Fenian Army wrote: »

Last year we had a UVF orchestrated attack on the Short Strand. Last night we had UVF orchestrated riots in which over 40 PSNI members were injured.
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/24342

There have been many other incidents too.

All from an organization which has supposedly "civilianized" and decommissioned.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/27/the-truth-about-belfasts-riots

There has been a serious lack of outright, meaningful condemnation of the UVF from Unionists.

Sinn Féin = Black pot

They never meaningfully condeme anything either and there have been serious nationalist incidents.

They are as bad as each other. And if we should not talk to loyalists (and we shouldn't in my opinion) thenwe should not talk to Sinn Féin (and we shouldn't in my opinion).

Nationalist politicians are just as tied up with paramilitaries ..that is no excuse for Unionist politicans or paramilitaries.

But i am so over it now ....Sinn Féin should stay over their own side of the border..

And to be honest people need to be reminded this is the REPUBLIC.....the north is the UK we don't have to deal with them...

To be honest i am jaded with it and feel such a disonnect with Northern Ireland...I tire of the efforts to drag the Republic into the turf war of another country.

Infact it is actually very disrespectful towards the Republic in my mind for nationalists in the North not to respect our separate sovreignty.

Fenian Army · 03-09-2012 05:20PM

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Sinn Féin = Black pot

They never meaningfully condeme anything either and there have been serious nationalist incidents.

They are as bad as each other. And if we should not talk to loyalists (and we shouldn't in my opinion) thenwe should not talk to Sinn Féin (and we shouldn't in my opinion).

Nationalist politicians are just as tied up with paramilitaries ..that is no excuse for Unionist politicans or paramilitaries.

But i am so over it now ....Sinn Féin should stay over their own side of the border..

And to be honest people need to be reminded this is the REPUBLIC.....the north is the UK we don't have to deal with them...

To be honest i am jaded with it and feel such a disonnect with Northern Ireland...I tire of the efforts to drag the Republic into the turf war of another country.

Infact it is actually very disrespectful towards the Republic in my mind for nationalists in the North not to respect our separate sovreignty.

I'll address your first point but I can't be arsed with rest, SF have condemned dissident republican acts in the strongest terms.

poeticseraphim · 03-09-2012 05:20PM

Fenian Army wrote: »

The loyalists fun day out last night also included the petrol bombing of a house with five kids inside.

Well find try and convict them then....and all criminals on both side and no more early releases on any side.

And more security on the streets and longer sentences.

poeticseraphim · 03-09-2012 05:30PM

Fenian Army wrote: »

I'll address your first point but I can't be arsed with rest, SF have condemned dissident republican acts in the strongest terms.

THEY HAVE NOT

And there lack of forthcoming with members past crimes and association with criminals who served time diminishes any such statement.

You should address the rest it is entirely relevant.

It is very disrespectful of nationalists in the north to keep trying to drag a separate sovreign nation into their turf war. It shows a lack of respect for our independance as a nation.

Sinn Féin shows the same disrespect...it's the north this and that....

It is not in the republic's interests to get involved.

Infact the partition keeps us relatively safe...without it we would no be.

So news like this makes me more glad it's there.

I have nothing but sympathy for ordinary people.

But really there is nothing we the republic can actually do.

guinnessdrinker · 03-09-2012 05:35PM

The police seem to have acted gallantly in the face of a well organised attack by the loyalist mob. 47 police injured last night but thankfully no serious injuries reported.

The attack is to be condemned of course without resorting to whataboutery but how certain are you that the UVF were involved? I have not seen anything from the PSNI stating they were involved in any reports.

Nodin · 03-09-2012 05:36PM

poeticseraphim wrote: »

THEY HAVE NOT

............

They rather spectacularily have, and received threats etc for their trouble. This stance has been widely reported in the media, so I fail to understand why you are so vehemently denying it.

poeticseraphim · 03-09-2012 05:48PM

Nodin wrote: »

They rather spectacularily have, and received threats etc for their trouble. This stance has been widely reported in the media, so I fail to understand why you are so vehemently denying it.

Words and statements are diminished by their lack of forthcoming and co-operation with authorities and their association with some convicts.

That is why i vehemently deny it.

They are hardly a party founded upon accepted levels of conduct.

I am not saying progress has not been made in that country.

But it is still not normal politics....and normal politics is still pretty bad.

southsiderosie · 03-09-2012 05:58PM

MOD NOTE:

This isn't a thread about Sinn Fein. Can we get back on topic, please?

woodoo · 03-09-2012 07:19PM

poeticseraphim wrote: »

But i am so over it now ....Sinn Féin should stay over their own side of the border..

Sinn Fein was founded before partition.

Re: UVF, I couldn't believe the likes of Nelson McCausland and Nigel Dobbs, they just couldn't condemn law breaking and overt sectarianism.

Chuck Stone · 03-09-2012 07:20PM

And all Nigel Dodds has to say is that there is 'frustration' in the loyalist community. More bad leadership.

Fenian Army · 03-09-2012 07:24PM

Kicking off again tonight...

Dubhlinner · 03-09-2012 09:03PM

Starting to think 1 unified unionist party would be a good thing for the whole of society.

Whilst the mainstream unionist parties fight for the hardline prod vote they'll never give an inch like condemning loyalists.

One big group they'd stop worrying about the other party being more unionist than thou and might act more reasonable. You see shades of it with peter robinson at times perhaps because dup have a comfortable lead over DUP.

not that it excuses them but Sinn Fein are similarly weak in condemning republican rioters during this time of year. They'll always just say "dialogue is needed" when condemnation is warranted.

And its for the same reason the DUP/UUP don't condemn loyalist rioters.They don't want the more traditional republican groups looking more republican than them

getzls · 03-09-2012 10:27PM

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

The police seem to have acted gallantly in the face of a well organised attack by the loyalist mob. 47 police injured last night but thankfully no serious injuries reported.

The attack is to be condemned of course without resorting to whataboutery but how certain are you that the UVF were involved? I have not seen anything from the PSNI stating they were involved in any reports.

Hey! If Sinn fein say it was the UVF, it must be true.;) Never tell lies that lot.

Nothing on the news to say it was.

Can'tseeme · 04-09-2012 11:19AM

getzls wrote: »

Hey! If Sinn fein say it was the UVF, it must be true.;) Never tell lies that lot.

Nothing on the news to say it was.

The SDLP has said it was loyalist paramilitaries

http://www.u.tv/News/Paramilitaries-blamed-for-city-trouble/a1d5979f-b99b-40ec-9c4d-c6c8770adf6d

The PSNI has said it was Loyalists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19465842

Defiler Of The Coffin · 04-09-2012 06:22PM

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

It seems the UVF were behind this after all according to the PSNI.

Link

That article is from last year!

guinnessdrinker · 04-09-2012 07:47PM

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

That article is from last year!

Genuine mistake, I have deleted my post.

Fenian Army · 04-09-2012 07:49PM

It's fairly obvious that it is the UVF behind this large scale orchestrated violence - reasoning is plain too, they are worried about restrictions being placed on their big parade at the end of the month.

laoch na mona · 04-09-2012 09:43PM

http://www.u.tv/News/Paramilitaries-...d-c6c8770adf6d
the PUP politician in that article says it all really to the unionists nationalists having rights is an attack on their culture. They need to introduce some severe anti sectarianism laws

junder · 04-09-2012 10:01PM

Fenian Army wrote: »

It's fairly obvious that it is the UVF behind this large scale orchestrated violence - reasoning is plain too, they are worried about restrictions being placed on their big parade at the end of the month.

UVF orchestrating rioting in the lower shankill which is a UDA stronghold?

TOMASJ · 04-09-2012 10:08PM

junder wrote: »

UVF orchestrating rioting in the lower shankill which is a UDA stronghold?

UVF/UDA/LVF
They are all the same when it comes to backing up the orange brethren,

I'm sure you remember them all triping over other to get to Drumcree

Jelle1880 · 04-09-2012 10:25PM

Fenian Army wrote: »

It's fairly obvious that it is the UVF behind this large scale orchestrated violence - reasoning is plain too, they are worried about restrictions being placed on their big parade at the end of the month.

No it's not

junder · 04-09-2012 10:31PM

TOMASJ wrote: »

junder wrote: »

UVF orchestrating rioting in the lower shankill which is a UDA stronghold?

UVF/UDA/LVF
They are all the same when it comes to backing up the orange brethren,

I'm sure you remember them all triping over other to get to Drumcree

I also remember them trying to kill each other in consecutive fueds that eminated from surprise, surprise, the lower shankill

getzls · 05-09-2012 02:25AM

Can'tseeme wrote: »

The SDLP has said it was loyalist paramilitaries

http://www.u.tv/News/Paramilitaries-blamed-for-city-trouble/a1d5979f-b99b-40ec-9c4d-c6c8770adf6d

The PSNI has said it was Loyalists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19465842

Really, that is a lazy reply, Loyalists doe's not mean UVF.

Can'tseeme · 05-09-2012 08:47AM

getzls wrote: »

Really, that is a lazy reply, Loyalists doe's not mean UVF.

Make of it what you will. It doesn't matter what Paramilitary group these thugs belong to imo. But local journalists and Police Spokesmen have said that members of Loyalist Paramilitaries were orchestrating trouble on the ground.

junder · 05-09-2012 11:17AM

Can'tseeme wrote: »

getzls wrote: »

Really, that is a lazy reply, Loyalists doe's not mean UVF.

Make of it what you will. It doesn't matter what Paramilitary group these thugs belong to imo. But local journalists and Police Spokesmen have said that members of Loyalist Paramilitaries were orchestrating trouble on the ground.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story

Can'tseeme · 05-09-2012 01:31PM

junder wrote: »

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story

PSNI Chief Supt George Clarke said there is "no doubt" the violence was organised, however it is too early to say if paramilitaries were involved.

"The violence did come from both sides of the community but initially, certainly, it came from within loyalism," he told UTV. "That's a fact. "There was clearly orchestration, there's no doubt about that.

"Three hundred people on Clifton Street, masonry broken up by people using concrete saws, there's no doubt about orchestration, but I'm not going to stand here and tell you I believe an organisation was involved - it's frankly too early to say that."

http://www.u.tv/news/Trouble-clearly...2-9a5e719dced0

junder · 05-09-2012 02:59PM

Can'tseeme wrote: »

junder wrote: »

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story

PSNI Chief Supt George Clarke said there is "no doubt" the violence was organised, however it is too early to say if paramilitaries were involved.

"The violence did come from both sides of the community but initially, certainly, it came from within loyalism," he told UTV. "That's a fact. "There was clearly orchestration, there's no doubt about that.

"Three hundred people on Clifton Street, masonry broken up by people using concrete saws, there's no doubt about orchestration, but I'm not going to stand here and tell you I believe an organisation was involved - it's frankly too early to say that."

http://www.u.tv/news/Trouble-clearly...2-9a5e719dced0

The same police that was blaming the uvf now blaming unknown paramiltarys.

Can'tseeme · 05-09-2012 03:25PM

junder wrote: »

The same police that was blaming the uvf now blaming unknown paramiltarys.

I'll relate you back to an earlier post from me you missed.

Make of it what you will. It doesn't matter what Paramilitary group these thugs belong to imo. But local journalists and Police Spokesmen have said that members of Loyalist Paramilitaries were orchestrating trouble on the ground.

Varied · 05-09-2012 06:09PM

Amazing that, in a thread about the UVF, there is Sinn Fein/republican bashing.

This group had and has no other motive other than to cleanse the North of all Catholics and Irish men. They aren't fighting for civil rights, they are a gang of mindless hateful thugs that aren't content unless they're terrorising the Irish community.

It saddens me that my fellow Irishmen in this forum are busy criticising their own rather than see these people for what they are.

The UVF

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