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Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

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Comments

  • #2522
    Red Crow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭Red Crow


    Pro. F wrote: »
    Are you trying to say that you only meant that he played muck in a few games? Rooney was more consistent last season then any other attacker in the PL other than RVP.

    If you are saying that Rooney played muck all of last season, then you are just wrong. It's an absolutely idiotic statement.

    I think Wayne Rooney from general play wasn't very good last year. Yes, he had a good year in front of goals but he was poor in general play.

    Want me to grind a few inches of that too? You're looking for something that's not there.


  • #2523
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    First time I've seen that Anderson photo in 30 posts anyway...


  • #2524
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Liam O wrote: »
    That's pretty much it but a defensive minded midfielder with a bit of energy would have made an extra hurdle for him. Look at the effect someone like Phil Neville who is decent but not great had at making United's attacks more difficult. It was the source of the balls to Fellaini too that were a problem with Clev and Scholes not closing down fast enough. So while creatively and in possession they were fine, there was no bite in midfield or pressure on Gibson and the likes when they were making those long balls.

    A defensive midfielder wouldn't have been closing down the sources of the long balls. That's the job of the wingers and forwards, but long balls are pretty much just going to happen if a team decides that's how they want to play. The way to deal with them is at the other end.


  • #2525
    madcabbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭madcabbage


    Can people stop slating Rooney everytime he has a bad game! Christ he's only human. The fitness will come good!


  • #2526
    adox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,040 ✭✭✭✭adox


    Jame Gumb wrote: »
    How can Rooney be so obviously unfit and out of shape? Are these guys professionals at all?


    It's awful to see. He should be dropped until he's in shape.


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  • #2527
    Jame Gumb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Jame Gumb


    If you showed that match to a guy who'd never seen United before and asked him who their best and most valuable player is, it'd be Kagawa. He looks technically brilliant. Super first touch. Super passing. So confident of his control that he looks around as the ball is coming to him. A real silver lining.


  • #2528
    Roger Sterling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 978 ✭✭✭Roger Sterling


    Pro. F wrote: »
    Let's just nip this right in the bud right now. We were not dominated in midfield tonight. We dominated possession all night, it was the final third where the problem was and that was mostly down to Rooney having a nightmare and Everton defending like heroes. Everton played the ball long to a monster of a player going up against a back line extremely lacking in areal strength, they didn't use their midfield at all other than for defending. Tonight was not an example of what is wrong with the United midfield.

    Amen to that. Similar to the Newcastle game last seadon when they played it long to Ba and bypassed midfield yet we had Utd fans with inferiority complexes bleating sbout how great Tiote and Cabaye are. Blsming the midfield everytime anything goes wrong is the lazy way out for thicks that cant analyse a game in its own right.


  • #2529
    adox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,040 ✭✭✭✭adox


    madcabbage wrote: »
    Can people stop slating Rooney everytime he has a bad game! Christ he's only human. The fitness will come good!

    But he looks out of shape, not just match fit. Plus looked a little non plus about things too. Even on the pre season tour he looked totally out of shape.


  • #2530
    UnitedIrishman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭UnitedIrishman


    keane2097 wrote: »
    What did your name used to be again? Were you banned/stopped posting for a while?

    unitedirishman?

    Changed my avatar and avoided the soccer forum for a while.


  • #2531
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    madcabbage wrote: »
    Can people stop slating Rooney everytime he has a bad game! Christ he's only human. The fitness will come good!

    There were times when Scholes was ambling back and an Everton player would be standing over the ball about to play one of the long balls when a bit of pressure would have at the very least impacted the quality of the ball. With Rio in the team and Carrick in midfield I think it could have been a different result as the team were very short through the middle defensively. When Pienaar and Osman were coming in there was nobody to pick them up.


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  • #2532
    Roger Sterling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 978 ✭✭✭Roger Sterling


    The great thing id Rooney no longer looks unyouchabke when you look at our other options. Being benched fotr someone as good or better than he is now a very real threat and prospect.


  • #2533
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,814 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    UnitedIrishman wrote: »
    unitedirishman?

    Changed my avatar and avoided the soccer forum for a while.

    Must have confused you with someone else re:the name change. Welcome back, you were always a good poster iirc.


  • #2534
    Jame Gumb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Jame Gumb


    adox wrote: »
    madcabbage wrote: »
    Can people stop slating Rooney everytime he has a bad game! Christ he's only human. The fitness will come good!

    But he looks out of shape, not just match fit. Plus looked a little non plus about things too. Even on the pre season tour he looked totally out of shape.

    It is not acceptable in my view for a guy who's paid a f..king million pounds a month to be coming back that unfit and out of shape after the summer.

    Some players can get away with eating burgers and drinking beers in California for three weeks during the summer. He's not one of them. If he wasn't a footballer, I reckon he'd be obese.

    He needs to cop the f..k on and stay in shape.


  • #2535
    madcabbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭madcabbage


    adox wrote: »
    But he looks out of shape, not just match fit. Plus looked a little non plus about things too. Even on the pre season tour he looked totally out of shape.

    To be fair he was. Maybe last season plus the Euros is having its toll on him, who knows. 4-6 weeks seems very little for recovery after all that.


  • #2536
    PHB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Pro. F wrote: »
    Let's just nip this right in the bud right now. We were not dominated in midfield tonight. We dominated possession all night, it was the final third where the problem was and that was mostly down to Rooney having a nightmare and Everton defending like heroes. Everton played the ball long to a monster of a player going up against a back line extremely lacking in areal strength, they didn't use their midfield at all other than for defending. Tonight was not an example of what is wrong with the United midfield.

    Totally disagree. Dominating possession is very very different to using it well. Cleverely and Scholes barely made a forward central pass all night. The vast majority of the passes were out to the wings, which is pretty retarded considering the aerial dominance that they had over us.

    We had all the possession, and did **** all with it. Cleverely was ok. Scholes was poor. Most importantly, nobody could create any real movement up front, or break down the play bar Kagawa.

    We need some real dynamism in the middle. We need creativity from a stage behind the front 4. We didn't have that. I think Cleverely can provide that long term, but to say we were good in midfield tonight is ludicrous I think.


  • #2537
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Eli Manning wrote: »
    I think Wayne Rooney from general play wasn't very good last year. Yes, he had a good year in front of goals but he was poor in general play.

    Want me to grind a few inches of that too? You're looking for something that's not there.

    First of all, this idea that Rooney was poor in general play last year is absolute nonsense.

    But lets for argument sake say that all he did last year was score goals. He scored 34 goals, 27 of them in the league, plenty of them in important games at important times. That alone qualifies him as having played well last season.

    I'm not looking for anything. Anybody who says that a forward played muck for the season when they score like that is talking drivel. That's the end of it.


  • #2538
    adox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,040 ✭✭✭✭adox


    madcabbage wrote: »
    To be fair he was. Maybe last season plus the Euros is having its toll on him, who knows. 4-6 weeks seems very little for recovery after all that.

    Nah he looks heavy to me. Did in pre season too. Sweating like a pig after 15 minutes on the pitch.

    I'd be more annoyed with him in a way if he was fully fit and put in a performance like that tonight.

    Anyway he's still crucial to the team of course. Not as crucial as the last couple of seasons but that can oly be a good thing.


  • #2539
    Ivy Crooked Transition
    Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Ivy Crooked Transition


    A lot of negativity at the mo here just to brighten the mood for a post kagawa looks class I saw him once or twice last year so couldn't juge him properly but could be one of our best players this year


  • #2540
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    Everton showed tonight how a well organised and determined team with a clear plan can unsettle superior opposition. Fellaini was monstrous but the two or three times he went up against Vidic, he lost out. Reckon Fergie woul have liked Evans beside Vidic and Smalling on the right for an extra bit of height.

    Everton have really profited from our defensive issues in recent years. I remember a 3-0 loss to them a few years ago with Carrick at the back. Last season we were missing Vidic and had a half fit Rio playing deep all game for the 4-4.

    Nani was muck, as was Rooney. Kagawa was decent. Very Barca-like in his passing and movement.


  • #2541
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Roger Sterling wrote: »
    Amen to that. Similar to the Newcastle game last seadon when they played it long to Ba and bypassed midfield yet we had Utd fans with inferiority complexes bleating sbout how great Tiote and Cabaye are. Blsming the midfield everytime anything goes wrong is the lazy way out for thicks that cant analyse a game in its own right.

    The midfield were muck against Newcastle that night though. They created zero and could barely string three passes together. I agree though that Newcastle played long balls all night and Tiote and Cabaye were nothing special in possession.


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  • #2542
    Pj!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭Pj!


    Kagawa was very, very good. The biggest positive from the game.
    De Gea was good. Some good saves. Looks like he's bulked up a bit.
    Van Persie didn't get a chance. Coming on when you're one down to Everton is never going to be easy. Looking forward to see him at Old Trafford, hopefully starting.
    Great to have Vidic back.

    Rooney wasn't brilliant at all. He does start slow and has plenty of games like these. When you see Tevez coming back fighting fit you have to wonder why Rooney can't do it.
    Nani was frustrating. Bad game but no need to get carried away. He is not an outstanding player but he'll offer plenty to Utd. Is at that age where he can still improve over last season and be very, very good.


    I think when it comes down to it Everton took advantage of United's defensive injury problems very well. Fellaini was of course a beast. I wouldn't fear Everton (any more than usual) when they come to Old Trafford.

    Things didn't go right on the day and the same United team could go out and win 4-0 next weekend. Just need to get a defender back and Carrick back to midfield. Will be an exciting team up front this year. Looking forward to it.

    Bloody, bloody frustrating to be behind by 3 points already. Chances are that there will be less than that that decides things at the end.
    But onwards and upwards.


  • #2543
    Jame Gumb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Jame Gumb


    I suspect that a 45 year old Fergie would drag Rooney into his office, scream at him about being an unprofessional fat c..t, fine him £500k and make him do extra training. Like Sir Matt before him, he's mellowed too much.

    I'm not attacking Fergie as that would be idiotic. I'm more worried about him and how "old" he seemed in the pre-match interview and when dealing with the question about Chicharito.


  • #2544
    UnitedIrishman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭UnitedIrishman


    Rooney wasn't poor last year. He seems to take an age to get up and running though which is frustrating as hell because you have to play him in order to get game time, yet his first touch isn't right for a few games which results in play breaking down etc.

    The year before Berba carried him with his contributions until January IIRC and he hadn't scored a goal from play until January in the league.

    He'll come good of course but we have to be realistic with regards the whole squad - there's a lot of players still being blooded in to a new style of playing. There's going to be some bumps along the way.
    keane2097 wrote: »
    Must have confused you with someone else re:the name change. Welcome back, you were always a good poster iirc.

    Cheers boss. Wandered in during transfer season and made a hasty exit. Plus rationality can be in short supply across this forum in particular!


  • #2545
    adox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,040 ✭✭✭✭adox


    Did Fergie give a post match interview at all?


  • #2546
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    PHB wrote: »
    Totally disagree. Dominating possession is very very different to using it well. Cleverely and Scholes barely made a forward central pass all night. The vast majority of the passes were out to the wings, which is pretty retarded considering the aerial dominance that they had over us.

    We had all the possession, and did **** all with it. Cleverely was ok. Scholes was poor. Most importantly, nobody could create any real movement up front, or break down the play bar Kagawa.

    We need some real dynamism in the middle. We need creativity from a stage behind the front 4. We didn't have that. I think Cleverely can provide that long term, but to say we were good in midfield tonight is ludicrous I think.

    It's simply not true to say that Cleverley and Scholes barely made a forward central pass all night. They played a shít tonne of them into Kagawa and Rooney.

    The problems came because Rooney, Nani and Welbeck all had poor games (as you say, most importantly nobody could create any real movement up front) and Everton defended brilliantly. A bit more energy from the central midfield would have been better I agree, but people saying that we were overrun and dominated in midfield are completely wrong.


  • #2547
    SirDelboy18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭SirDelboy18


    Rooney's problem of being sometimes inconsistent was one of the bigger reasons for us losing tonight. Problem is, Rooney can literally look like the best in the world or the absolute worst, and tonight was a lot closer to the latter.

    Obviously Carrick at centre back wasn't ideal and it proved so. But nothing can be done about that. Yet it is obvious that we need someone with a bit of engine in the midfield area in certain games - I hope that is rectified.

    We struggled to create openings and that is a worry, bringing back memories of City away last season. And Kagawa, as mentioned by Nev, clearly didn't see enough of the ball, another fault of the Clev/Scholes tonight who were quite mediocre.

    No shame in losing to Everton away, but I hope Fergie addresses the problems that need addressing.


  • #2548
    Pj!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭Pj!


    adox wrote: »
    Did Fergie give a post match interview at all?

    No don't think so. Bit of an interview from Vidic on bbc but nothing else from the camp.
    Had been looking forward to hearing what Fergie had to say.


  • #2549
    Red Crow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭Red Crow


    Pro. F wrote: »
    First of all, this idea that Rooney was poor in general play last year is absolute nonsense.

    But lets for argument sake say that all he did last year was score goals. He scored 34 goals, 27 of them in the league, plenty of them in important games at important times. That alone qualifies him as having played well last season.

    I'm not looking for anything. Anybody who says that a forward played muck for the season when they score like that is talking drivel. That's the end of it.

    Scoring goals does not equal playing well and I never questioned his goal scoring record.

    You also said that today wasn't a display that showed our weakness in midfield. It was a perfect example of what we were lacking.


  • #2550
    Roger Sterling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 978 ✭✭✭Roger Sterling


    A quick look at the passing charts fir the midfielders tomorrow will settle ghe debate about forward passing fairly fast.


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  • #2551
    Just An Opinion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Just An Opinion


    adox wrote: »
    Did Fergie give a post match interview at all?

    Gave one to MUTV basically sounds upbeat enough he said it was a good game we played well enough just lacked in the final third.

    http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2012/Aug/sir-alex-ferguson-post-everton-interview.aspx


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