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Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

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Comments

  • #752
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Perfectly coherent. I reposted the questions for you and you still refused to answer them.

    They're silly questions and it has been pointed out to you by more than one person that a sign saying 'Welcome to NI' does not in any way educate people in the differences of laws on either side of the border.

    As for justifying murder I'd recommend you to be careful with your statements because you are not anonymous on the internet and you are skirting dangerously close to libelling me.

    I've reported your post.


  • #753
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    The border communities should have been consulted before the signs were erected.

    No they shouldn't.


  • #754
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    They're silly questions and it has been pointed out to you by more than one person that a sign saying 'Welcome to NI' does not in any way educate people in the differences of laws on either side of the border.

    As for justifying murder I'd recommend you to be careful with your statements because you are not anonymous on the internet and you are skirting dangerously close to libelling me.

    I've reported your post.

    That's just pathetic. But if that's the game you want to play that's fine. Argue yourself into a corner and then try and silence those against you and claim victory. A common party tactic.

    Tell you what, give me one good reason why you felt the need to highlight the
    PSNI as a non-civilian police force and I will gladly withdraw my comment.


  • #755
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    haulagebasher wrote: »
    No it's not. It is relevant as I feel a lack of wiliingness to prosecute means an acceptance of [admittely mild] dissident criminal activity.

    Let's get one thing straight. I do not support the dissidents. Uprooting signs can hardly be labelled 'dissident activity' especially when the community was not consulted with on them.
    Can you please answer it.I asked the question first, so ......, I also want to be given an answer to the "if the shoe was on the other foot" question. Then I shall answer your question.

    I don't remember you directly asking me any question tbh. Also my point still stands. If the community had been consulted we might not have had people within it deciding to uproot the signs.


  • #756
    rn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭rn


    Its not very often I agree with SF, but on this occasion I'm inclined to: The aggressive font on the Signs "Welcome to NORTHERN IRELAND"... isn't in keeping with promoting a harmonious existence within the community.

    The signs aren't that informative and aren't that welcoming... and should be removed.


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  • #757
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    MagicSean wrote: »
    That's just pathetic. But if that's the game you want to play that's fine. Argue yourself into a corner and then try and silence those against you and claim victory. A common party tactic.

    Claim victory? This is a discussion not a zero sum game - pathetic indeed.
    Tell you what, give me one good reason why you felt the need to highlight the PSNI as a non-civilian police force and I will gladly withdraw my comment.

    You may as well withdraw it now because I didn't make that claim. You're fighting phantoms.


  • #758
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    No they shouldn't.


    Great contribution.


  • #759
    haulagebasher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭haulagebasher


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    No they shouldn't.

    +1 there. The council should have been consulted, thats what they are there for- to decide local matters. If the population were to be directly consulted on every stick and signpost erected on the side of the road, sure you’d never get anything done.@Chuck Stone: I did not suggest you supported dissiedents. However, pety vandalism IS the think edge of the wedge. It is a crime committed due to the perps opposition to the state of NI. As such, in my view, it is associated with dissident activity, albeit at the very minor end of the scale.And you have still not answered my questions. By your silence I assume you condone such activity. Is that right?


  • #760
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,747 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Let's get one thing straight. I do not support the dissidents. Uprooting signs can hardly be labelled 'dissident activity' especially when the community was not consulted with on them.



    I don't remember you directly asking me any question tbh. Also my point still stands. If the community had been consulted we might not have had people within it deciding to uproot the signs.
    Why does the community need consulted to erect says that welcome people to the country that they live in?

    The community does not need consulted on every minor thing. This is why politicians are elected. To suggest they should be consulted for something as trivial as this is absolutely laughable.


  • #761
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Claim victory? This is a discussion not a zero sum game - pathetic indeed.

    You may as well withdraw it now because I didn't make that claim. You're fighting phantoms.

    This is what you said. The intention and meaning of your post was clear.
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Communities agree to be policed. When the police become the tool of one side then they aren't a civilian police force any more.
    The communities who populate the border areas (and who happen to be predominately non-Unionist in heritage) should have been consulted on the issue and an agreement reached or the trolling prevented plan shelved.
    As for forcing the community to accept them? Yep, just keep banging your head against that wall. If the people of the border have proved one thing it's that they will not be pushed around. The British army had to travel in and out of there by helicopter at one stage FFS do people really think a few CCTV cameras are going to stop them from turning the signs into scrap?
    Slow learners.

    Translation - If they don't take the signs down they'll be taken down by force and fear and intimidation will keep them down.

    Try and deny that this is what your post meant. Please. And when I called you on it you responded with these personal attacks.
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Sorry, but you stopped being coherent in this thread a few pages back.
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Indeed.

    A person utterly obsessed with enforcing 'law and order' regardless of how patently stupid/immoral/abusive those laws are.

    When that didn't work you threatened legal action and reported my posts.


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  • #762
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,747 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Communities agree to be policed. When the police become the tool of one side then they aren't a civilian police force any more.

    The communities who populate the border areas (and who happen to be predominately non-Unionist in heritage) should have been consulted on the issue and an agreement reached or the trolling prevented plan shelved.

    As for forcing the community to accept them? Yep, just keep banging your head against that wall. If the people of the border have proved one thing it's that they will not be pushed around. The British army had to travel in and out of there by helicopter at one stage FFS do people really think a few CCTV cameras are going to stop them from turning the signs into scrap?

    Slow learners.

    So what you're accusing border communities of here is only accepting law and order when it suits them?

    Interesting.


  • #763
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    And all parties agreed on a clear protocol for the ending of the state when the time is right. That was the compromise. It was agreed in the short term in exchange for a long term agreement from the other side.

    True, I er, agree. Unfortunately, according to the of likes of Cu and Chuck and others, all of this is rather pointless.

    The nationalists (close to 100% of them) who agreed to accept for now, the state of Northern Ireland didn’t really agree because they were really only endorsing the bits of GFA that they liked. And they sure do not like partition.

    So of course, not being hypocrites, the lads certainly won’t have any objections to the unionists (about 50%) who agreed to accept a united Ireland when a majority in NI want it, reneging on this as the unionists weren’t too gone on that part of GFA? :pac:

    If only people would agree to the agreements that they agreed with! :cool:


  • #764
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    awec wrote: »
    The community does not need consulted on every minor thing. This is why politicians are elected. To suggest they should be consulted for something as trivial as this is absolutely laughable.

    Trivial to you perhaps but not trivial to everyone. If you think it's trivial why are you defending their erection?

    Rather contradictory don't you think?

    Aslo, maybe you stopped following the thread here.
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    The signs are provocative. They'd have done better to leave well alone. They've been systematically de-politicising the border now since the PP by removing check points, watch towers, army barracks and by rebuilding roads and bridges that were blocked off with boulders or demolished.

    Whoever decided to put up the signs is either deliberately trying to provoke a reaction or hasn't a clue about political sensitivities on the ground.


  • #765
    haulagebasher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭haulagebasher


    Just goes to show here that it does'nt take much of a scratch to the surface before the vile truth is revealed about republicanism - only accepting law and order where it suits them and crying the discrimination card where it doesn't suit their wretched dogma. Seen here in all it's glory by the implied condoning of acts of vandalism on public property.
    also the signs are not provocative. They have simple text saying welcome to NI. I would accept that arguement if they were emblasoned with a Union flag or the siloette of an AK 47 brandishing paramilitary.


  • #766
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,747 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Trivial to you perhaps but not trivial to everyone. If you think it's trivial why are you defending their erection?

    Rather contradictory don't you think?

    Aslo, maybe you stopped following the thread here.
    Not even slightly. Do you know what contradictory means?

    So signs were put up welcoming people into the country. So what. It's a non-issue. No different to signs being put up on the borders of other countries, or even the inter-county signs in Ireland.

    Some people need to grow up. Provocative? Absolute nonsense.


  • #767
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Translation - If they don't take the signs down they'll be taken down by force and fear and intimidation will keep them down.

    I simply stated the realities of what is and will continue to happen. Have you ever driven into Derry city? Ever seen the Londonderry signs?
    Try and deny that this is what your post meant. Please. And when I called you on it you responded with these personal attacks.

    I was talking about the past. Thank goodness it's nothing like that any more. I have said before I lend my tacit approval to the PSNI and hoep to see it become a fully functioning civilian police force. Saying that it's inevitable that the signs will be torn down does not negate it.

    The PSNI is not perfect but it's a damn sight more acceptable that the RUC and other unionist militias that came before it. Also, I have never once ever justified the murder of innocent people in any post I've ever made.
    When that didn't work you threatened legal action and reported my posts.

    What can I say. I value my reputation and don't like people suggesting that I'd justify the murder of any innocent person. If you look in the politics section you will see that I have condemned the murder of people by the IRA (among others) on numerous occasions.

    I make no apologies for identifying with the community from where I come which is the working class nationalist community who bore the brunt of state violence in the six counties, nor will I ever.


  • #768
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    awec wrote: »
    So signs were put up welcoming people into the country.

    If you really believe that then you're more naive than I thought. These are not shiney happy 'welcome to NI' signs they are territory marking and functionally useless, hence the reason people are questioning the reason for them being erected.


  • #769
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Great contribution.

    There's absolutely no reason to consult any communities. Its just a sign and is no reason to spark off special snowflake syndrome.
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    If you really believe that then you're more naive than I thought. These are not shiney happy 'welcome to NI' signs they are territory marking and functionally useless, hence the reason people are questioning the reason for them being erected.

    Like the ones you see when you enter any other county in Ireland :/


  • #770
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,747 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    If you really believe that then you're more naive than I thought. These are not shiney happy 'welcome to NI' signs they are territory marking and functionally useless, hence the reason people are questioning the reason for them being erected.
    I pity you if that's what you really think. :(


  • #771
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    rn wrote: »
    Its not very often I agree with SF, but on this occasion I'm inclined to: The aggressive font on the Signs "Welcome to NORTHERN IRELAND"... isn't in keeping with promoting a harmonious existence within the community.

    The signs aren't that informative and aren't that welcoming... and should be removed.

    Ah - come on now. The capitalisation of the name is not uncommon:

    http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/41/71/2417194_1fb0a781.jpg


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  • #772
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,164 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    ...defending their erection....

    :)


  • #773
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    runaway bishop wrote: »
    Like the ones you see when you enter any other county in Ireland :/


    That's the point they are not like signs anywhere else in Ireland,And the Unionist council who put them up knew exactly what they were doing,The six counties/NI/ulster is still far from being a normal place as anyone who lives or goes there will tell you.


  • #774
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,747 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    realies wrote: »
    That's the point they are not like signs anywhere else in Ireland,And the Unionist council who put them up knew exactly what they were doing,The six counties/NI/ulster is still far from being a normal place as anyone who lives or goes there will tell you.
    I am from there.

    It's a normal place.

    Admittedly there are some that wish it weren't, but it is.


  • #775
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    realies wrote: »
    That's the point they are not like signs anywhere else in Ireland,And the Unionist council who put them up knew exactly what they were doing,The six counties/NI/ulster is still far from being a normal place as anyone who lives or goes there will tell you.

    Are they not?

    http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3390/4554297241_fa160941f4_z.jpg

    http://homepage.eircom.net/~sligochapter/welcome%20to%20sligo.jpg


  • #776
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,630 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    ardmacha wrote: »
    it is bad enough being at the butt end of the British Empire without signs gloating about the fact.

    :confused::confused:. It is entering a new country. I bet you see same France into Germany or Germany into Poland


  • #777
    haulagebasher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭haulagebasher


    @Chuck Stone: The PSNI IS a civilian force, stop insinuating that it isn't. Listen, nobody ever accusied you of condoning murders so there is no need to be playing the victim and threatening people with legal action.Your final paragraph about Nationalists bearing the brunt of violece: it is as if you wish to believe that all Nationalists are angels that wouldn;t hurt anyone. I can tell you straight awway that [some] Nationalists were responsible for a fair share of murder and bloodshed in NI. Once could also make the arguement that Nationalism itself is the root cause of misery that has befallen this island over the past 110 or so years.
    I;m sick to the teeth of the double standards in this country and equally sick of Republican sympathisers preaching from behind the anonymity of a keyboard.


  • #778
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Are they not?

    http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3390/4554297241_fa160941f4_z.jpg

    http://homepage.eircom.net/~sligochapter/welcome%20to%20sligo.jpg


    I am not talking about the signs themselfs :rolleyes: jesus.Do you know anything that went on there the last 30/40 years.


  • #779
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    realies wrote: »
    I am not talking about the signs themselfs :rolleyes: jesus.Do you know anything that went on there the last 30/40 years.

    Ah, rolleyes. That showed me my ignorance. Well done.

    You just said "That's the point they are not like signs anywhere else in Ireland" They are exactly like the signs elsewhere in Ireland. This is a none issue for any reasonable person.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/lancashire/7347874120/
    http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/45372534.jpg

    ^^ There were already similar signs up in Belfast btw.


  • #780
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    haulagebasher wrote: »
    I;m sick to the teeth of the double standards in this country and equally sick of Republican sympathisers preaching from behind the anonymity of a keyboard.

    Is not Orangism British nationalism? Or are you placing the entire blame for the troubled history of this island squarely on those of the Irish nationalist persuasion?


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  • #781
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    haulagebasher wrote: »
    @Chuck Stone: The PSNI IS a civilian force, stop insinuating that it isn't.

    It's well on it's way I never said that it wasn't. There are still some issues but they are minor compared to the vipers nest that the RUC was.
    Your final paragraph about Nationalists bearing the brunt of violece: it is as if you wish to believe that all Nationalists are angels that wouldn;t hurt anyone.

    The troubles kicked off because of lack of respect for civil and poltical rights by unionists - that's undeniable. Nationalsm and republicanism followed and physical force republicanism subsequent to that.


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