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Sinn Fein in a huff over new signs

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Comments

  • #542
    haulagebasher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭haulagebasher


    This whole opposition to signage is fuctionally equivalent to Protestants living in the South whining about signs at Dublin airport saying welcome to Ireland or ROI or whatever. However I suspect that this is not coming from Catholic community but from Sinn Fein and their hangers on who think that they must be seen to be complaining about "d'Brits" to placate the hardliners. Why not throw in a reference to the infamous 800 years while they're at it.


  • #543
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,550 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Bear in mind I think most people in the thread would assume we're using the definition of country in the context of a state or nation, or territory of a nation. Not as a landmass or geographical definition. Purely political.

    Would you accept that when people say the Republic of Ireland that they are referring to the south? It's purely to aid clarity.


  • #544
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    LordSutch wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/republic-of-ireland-abandoning-religion-faster-than-almost-every-other-country-16195112.html

    http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=irl/index.html

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/republicofireland

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18421262

    http://www.atlanticphilanthropies.org/region/republic-ireland

    http://www.uefa.com/womenseuro/teams/team=500064/index.html

    The Republic of Ireland, also known as Ireland or Eire, a seperate country from Northern Ireland, which is a Region within the United Kingdom. As a school teacher you should know this, I should also say that you seem to be very angry and antagonistic in your arguments (for a school teacher)!

    Please refer to our Constitution Lord......
    Characteristics of the nation and stateNational sovereignty: The constitution asserts the "inalienable, indefeasible, and sovereign right" of the Irish people to self-determination (Article 1). The state is declared to be "sovereign, independent, [and] democratic" (Article 5).
    Popular sovereignty: It is stated that all powers of government "derive, under God, from the people" (Article 6.1). However, it is also stated that those powers "are exercisable only by or on the authority of the organs of State" established by the Constitution (Article 6.2).
    Name of the state: The Constitution declares that "[the] name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland" (Article 4). Under the Republic of Ireland Act 1948 the term "Republic of Ireland" is the official "description" of the state; as ordinary legislation, however, this has left unaltered "Ireland" as the formal name of the state as defined by the Constitution.United Ireland: Article 2, as substituted after the Good Friday Agreement, asserts that "every person born in the island of Ireland" has the right "to be part of the Irish Nation"; however, Article 9.2 now limits this to persons having at least one parent as an Irish citizen. Article 3 declares that it is the "firm will of the Irish Nation" to bring about a united Ireland, provided that this occurs "only by peaceful means", and only with the express consent of the majority of the people in Northern Ireland.
    National flag: The national flag is defined as "the tricolour of green, white and orange" (Article 7).
    Capital city: The Houses of the Oireachtas (parliament) must usually meet in or near Dublin (Article 15.1.3°) ("or in such other place as they may from time to time determine"), and the President's official residence must be in or near the city (Article 12.11.1°).

    Dont argue with me, its in the constitution.

    Ireland is the official name.

    Republic of Ireland a 'description'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ireland#Preamble_.28full_text.29


  • #545
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Bear in mind I think most people in the thread would assume we're using the definition of country in the context of a state or nation, or territory of a nation. Not as a landmass or geographical definition. Purely political.

    Would you accept that when people say the Republic of Ireland that they are referring to the south? It's purely to aid clarity.

    Please see above ^^^^


  • #546
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Nobody is looking good in this I fear, The signs do smack of the work of petty tokenism,a form of gloating and as I posted earlier and given the history of Ireland just put up to wind up and annoy other sections of the community,But the reactions and outrage by some people to them are a bit over the top imo and are giving certain Unionists and there supporters the satisfaction of getting such a response.


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  • #547
    haulagebasher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭haulagebasher


    That Republic! Seriously though, I think republic or perhaps the south or southern Ireland should be used for clarity when refering to the 26. When refereing to the island just to use Ireland is fine. Using just Ireland as a ploitical name of a state still smacks of the south still seeing itself as rightfull ruler or Northern Ireland - it has in fact retracted it's claim to rule NI in the GFA. Simply becasue the state in the 26 is not Ireland, it is only a part of it. personally if I had my way I would have had the GFA reflect this to tie in with the repeal of the claim to 6 counties by having the state in the 26 rename itself Southern Ireland. Southern Ireland and Northern Ireland would be far less ambiguous naming and historically, Southern Ireland was the name of this state long before any Republic came about. However, I can understand why a lot of people here would not agree to it but if it were to go along with all the benefits of the GFA it probably would have been passed anyway. TBH the Republic of Ireland is a name that is acceptable to use in public. I think most of us here are just greatful that the "Irish Republic" never came about or the name never came into colloquial use. I feel sick when I hear them on about the IR.


  • #548
    haulagebasher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭haulagebasher


    realies wrote: »
    Nobody is looking good in this I fear, The signs do smack of the work of petty tokenism,a form of gloating and as I posted earlier and given the history of Ireland just put up to wind up and annoy other sections of the community,But the reactions and outrage by some people to them are a bit over the top imo and are giving certain Unionists and there supporters the satisfaction of getting such a response.

    Well if that was indeed the mostivation to erect the signs, well then the nationalists and SF are just as bad to be rising to it and taking the bait. Again, like I said earlier, that is just playing into Loyalist hands and giving them the reaction the set out to provoke. The reaction of SF just shows how petty, immature and insecure a grouping they are to be creating a hullabaloo over a peice of tin on a stick.


  • #549
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    haulagebasher wrote: »
    That Republic! Seriously though, I think republic or perhaps the south or southern Ireland should be used for clarity when refering to the 26. When refereing to the island just to use Ireland is fine. Using just Ireland as a ploitical name of a state still smacks of the south still seeing itself as rightfull ruler or Northern Ireland. Simply becasue the state in the 26 is not Ireland, it is only a part of it. personally if I had my way I would have had the GFA reflect this to tie in with the repeal of the claim to 6 counties by having the state in the 26 rename itself Southern Ireland. Southern Ireland and Northern Ireland would be far less ambiguous naming and historically, Southern Ireland was the name of this state long before any Republic came about. However, I can understand why a lot of people here would not agree to it but if it were to go along with all the benefits of the GFA it probably would have been passed anyway. TBH the Republic of Ireland is a name that is acceptable to use in public. I think most of us here are just greatful that the "Irish Republic" never came about or the name never came into colloquial use. I feel sick when I hear them on about the IR.

    Sweet Jesus.....

    no..................


  • #550
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    haulagebasher wrote: »
    That Republic! Seriously though, I think republic or perhaps the south or southern Ireland should be used for clarity when refering to the 26. When refereing to the island just to use Ireland is fine. Using just Ireland as a ploitical name of a state still smacks of the south still seeing itself as rightfull ruler or Northern Ireland. Simply becasue the state in the 26 is not Ireland, it is only a part of it. personally if I had my way I would have had the GFA reflect this to tie in with the repeal of the claim to 6 counties by having the state in the 26 rename itself Southern Ireland. Southern Ireland and Northern Ireland would be far less ambiguous naming and historically, Southern Ireland was the name of this state long before any Republic came about. However, I can understand why a lot of people here would not agree to it but if it were to go along with all the benefits of the GFA it probably would have been passed anyway. TBH the Republic of Ireland is a name that is acceptable to use in public. I think most of us here are just greatful that the "Irish Republic" never came about or the name never came into colloquial use. I feel sick when I hear them on about the IR.

    Why on earth would Ireland name itself "Southern Ireland"? The most northerly point on the island is in the republic. What other countries call themselves is their business, 'Ireland' as a name for the State is perfectly fine.


  • #551
    Captain Commie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Captain Commie


    Can't say I am surprised by this at all, Sinn Fein will not be happy until it is a United Ireland, pure and simple.

    This latest is purely so that they are not reminded every time they cross the border themselves.

    Personally I think the signs are needed, as the speed limits are different, 120km/h is not 70mp/h and it is easy to get caught out.


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  • #552
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Captain Commie wrote: »
    Personally I think the signs are needed, as the speed limits are different, 120km/h is not 70mp/h and it is easy to get caught out.

    I take it is a long time since you've crossed the border then?


  • #553
    Captain Commie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Captain Commie


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    I take it is a long time since you've crossed the border then?

    10 days, maybe 2 week, not that it makes a difference


  • #554
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Captain Commie wrote: »
    10 days, maybe 2 week, not that it makes a difference

    Then why did you mention the speed limit signs then? They've been there for years, that's not what this thread is about.


  • #555
    Genghis Khan.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭Genghis Khan.


    alastair wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1948/en/act/pub/0022/print.html#sec2
    Alastair, why do you bother trying to argue with some who just can't see the reality? The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are two different countries. It is that simple.

    And I don't see the big deal with these signs. Most foreigners who come into Northern Ireland from the Republic of Ireland are well aware of the the two countries. Many actually take advantage of it during Christmas for shopping when they flood up in thousands to shop for cheaper deals.

    RA terrorist supporters might not like it but it is the truth.


  • #556
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    /Awaits Guy:Incognito to tell us the constitution is wrong.....


  • #557
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Genghis Khan. wrote: »
    Alastair, why do you bother trying to argue with some who just can't see the reality? The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are two different countries. It is that simple.

    Wrong, one is a country, the other is a statelet.
    Genghis Khan. wrote: »
    RA terrorist supporters might not like it but it is the truth

    LOL


  • #558
    Captain Commie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Captain Commie


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    Then why did you mention the speed limit signs then? They've been there for years, that's not what this thread is about.

    The thread is about welcome to NI signs, and at certain points, if there is no notice of the speed change then knowing you have crossed into NI will help you understand that you now have a different speed measurement. - simple stuff, no?


  • #559
    Genghis Khan.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭Genghis Khan.


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    Wrong, one is a country, the other is a statelet.



    LOL
    Northern Ireland (Irish: Tuaisceart Éireann pronounced [ˈt̪ˠuəʃcəɾˠt̪ˠ ˈeːɾʲən̪ˠ] ( listen), Ulster Scots: Norlin Airlann or Norlin Airlan) is a part of the United Kingdom in the north-east of the island of Ireland. It is variously described as a country, province or region of the UK, amongst other terms
    Move on and stop being bitter about it. Sinn Fein are perfectly happy to be working in a British government now. So no Nationalist should feel angry about this. Let Sinn Fein work for the British government and do the job they are paid to do by British tax payers.


  • #560
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Genghis Khan. wrote: »
    Alastair, why do you bother trying to argue with some who just can't see the reality? The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are two different countries. It is that simple.

    And I don't see the big deal with these signs. Most foreigners who come into Northern Ireland from the Republic of Ireland are well aware of the the two countries. Many actually take advantage of it during Christmas for shopping when they flood up in thousands to shop for cheaper deals.

    RA terrorist supporters might not like it but it is the truth.

    I never considered the late Brian Lenihan a 'RA Terrorist supporter' myself.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055433014


  • #561
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Captain Commie wrote: »
    The thread is about welcome to NI signs, and at certain points, if there is no notice of the speed change then knowing you have crossed into NI will help you understand that you now have a different speed measurement. - simple stuff, no?

    Exactly, this thread is about 'Welcome to NI' signs, nothing to do with speed limit signs which are already installed on most if not all border crossings in both directions! Simple stuff yes?


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  • #562
    haulagebasher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭haulagebasher


    Can't say I am surprised by this at all, Sinn Fein will not be happy until it is a United Ireland, pure and simple.
    And it is exactly this dogmatic attitude that shows that they are a fundamentlly undemocratic organisation. The people of NI and the ROI, overwhelmingly voted in the GFA referenda to support partition and supported the line that only by will of the majority could change the status quo. SF clearly disregard that democratic decision and their raison d'etre is to thrust unification upon the states whether the citizens want it or not. Like so many parties of their ilk, the are democratic as long as you agree with them.It is this attitude which makes many of us here in the south very concerned with the recent rise in the popularity of SF in elections which is a result of a chronic vacuum in conservative political parties in the south.I can fully understand the fear that protestants in NI would be in with a party as arrogant as SF in power


  • #563
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Genghis Khan. wrote: »
    Move on and stop being bitter about it. Sinn Fein are perfectly happy to be working in a British government now. So no Nationalist should feel angry about this. Let Sinn Fein work for the British government and do the job they are paid to do by British tax payers.

    Have you ever posted on boards under a different username?


  • #564
    Genghis Khan.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭Genghis Khan.


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    Have you ever posted on boards under a different username?
    Nope.


  • #565
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    Have you ever posted on boards under a different username?

    Consonant.
    Vowel
    Vowel
    Consonant
    Consonant
    Vowel
    Consonant
    Consonant


    Start the clock....


  • #566
    Genghis Khan.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭Genghis Khan.


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Consonant.
    Vowel
    Vowel
    Consonant
    Consonant
    Vowel
    Consonant
    Consonant


    Start the clock....
    Are you trying to be offensive?


  • #567
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,550 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Please see above ^^^^

    I never once implied that the official name was the Republic of Ireland. In my post I was asking did you accept that when people used this description that they were referring to the south, of officially, Ireland. The reason I'm not just using Ireland was when someone says the north isn't in Ireland you immediately get loads of posters saying of course it is, and they're right if you're referring to the body of rock surrounded by ocean, i.e. the island, but it was leading to all sorts of confusion.

    I will continue to use the description 'Republic of Ireland' when referring to the southern country as it is not open to interpretation as the official name 'Ireland' is to some posters. It refers explicitly to the southern state of 26 counties, and cannot be construed as including the northern 6, which is factually part of the UK.


  • #568
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Sshhh


  • #569
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    haulagebasher wrote: »
    The people of NI and the ROI, overwhelmingly voted in the GFA referenda to support partition and supported the line that only by will of the majority could change the status quo.
    Now I can't speak for anyone but myself but I think quite a sizeable number of people did not vote to support partition, but like myself many voted to "give peace a chance".
    I do not support partition but I did vote for the GFA.

    I can totally understand many in border communities not being happy with these signs, looking at them I can almost hear Paisly's voice saying the phrase, but personally I will just put them in the same bracket as "Welcome to The Sunny South East" or "Welcome to Connemara" signs.
    But I do think "Welcome to The North" would have been less contentious.


  • #570
    Genghis Khan.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 53 ✭✭Genghis Khan.


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Now I can't speak for anyone but myself but I think quite a sizeable number of people did not vote to support partition, but like myself many voted to "give peace a chance".
    I do not support partition but I did vote for the GFA.

    I can totally understand many in border communities not being happy with these signs, looking at them I can almost hear Paisly's voice saying the phrase, but personally I will just put them in the same bracket as "Welcome to The Sunny South East" or "Welcome to Connemara" signs.
    But I do think "Welcome to The North" would have been less contentious.
    When you voted for the GFA you recognised Northern Ireland. Which is why we have Dissidents because they rejected it based on Republican principle. If James Connelly was around today, he would call Sinn Fein traitors and anti Socialists.


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  • #571
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    If James Connolly was around today he'd be heading for 150 years old and not saying much of anything.


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