Obama releases ad attacking Romney!

joseph brand · 02-08-2012 07:16PM #1

Romney made $20 million last year and paid 14% tax.

What a patriot.

Manach · 02-08-2012 07:32PM

Romney paid $2.8 million last year in tax.

What a patriot.

joseph brand · 02-08-2012 07:55PM

And he won't release his tax returns.

What a patriot.

That's not all folks.

A decade ago, Romney was trying to prove his eligibility to run for governor of Massachusetts. The state requires candidates to be a resident for seven years before running for governor. Romney testified to a state panel that this wasn't a problem because he'd been paying taxes in Massachusetts for years, even while living in Utah and running the Salt Lake City Olympics.

But Romney hadn't been paying taxes in Massachusetts—he'd listed Utah as his primary state on several years of tax forms. When asked about this by Boston Globe reporters, he said he wasn't sure what was in his taxes but he'd be "happy to look into it."

http://leanforward.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/01/13077163-youre-going-to-have-to-take-my-word-for-it-mitt-romney-tax-returns-and-a-decade-of-evasion?lite

20Cent · 03-08-2012 08:24AM

Harry Reid is claiming that Romney didn't pay anything

"In a statement Thursday night responding to criticism, Reid said he was told by an "extremely credible source" Romney didn't pay taxes for a decade, and that the nominee is "hiding something" by refusing to release more tax returns."

Even Fox "news" are reporting the story. After Romneys disastrous visit to the UK this is a few more nails in the coffin.

Amerika · 03-08-2012 06:20PM

Ah yes, Harry Reid ("Mr. I won’t release my taxes either") feels when it comes to Republicans... you’re guilty until proven innocent. First it was an unnamed source that told him, then a number of sources, now back to just one. The truth is there’s only three people/groups that have access to Romney’s tax returns... The Romneys, their accountant, and the Internal Revenue Service. Anything else would be pure conjecture. Harry should be ashamed of himself!

As Mitt Romney so eloquently put it to Harry Reid... "put up or shut up."

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/03/reid-my-source-on-romneys-taxes-is-so-incredibly-credible-that-i-wont-say-who-he-is/

Duck Soup · 04-08-2012 08:00AM

1. This is a clusterfcuk of Romney's own making. Just about every presidential candidate for the last 30 years has released multiple years of tax returns. That Romney appears to have been caught by surprise by the outcry that he hasn't done the same is astounding.

2. Is Harry Reid playing sneaky games with the issue? Certainly, but I don't think the party that gave the world both Lee Atwater and Karl Rove is in a position to give lectures about political clean sportsmanship. In fact, it's straight out of the Atwater playbook - put the thought out there, hold your hands up and say "I ain't sayin' it's true or nuttin', but I heard..." and make it the other side's job to respond to it.

The insanity is that Romney could kill the issue stone dead in 5 minutes by releasing his tax records, as his father did before him in his presidential run. Unti he does, the "he paid no taxes for 10 years" gossip just hangs there until contradicted by hard evidence. Remember as well that he made at least 10 years of his tax records (so at a minimum 1997 - 2007) available to the McCain campaign when he was being considered as a Veep pick in 2008. Steve Schmidt could tell you exactly what's in those records.

3. Every day spent responding is a day not spent attacking. Every day you're at the mercy of the political narrative is a day you're not creating the political narrative. Romney seems to have been on the back foot for forever.

Notice as well that Romney took only 3 questions in total from the press on his disastrous overseas trip. He's a gaffe-a-minute and they're trying to nurse him through this by wheeling him out only when necessary to say the absolute minimum. That gives the Obama campaign the ability to take control of the narrative and shape it at will.

Overheal · 05-08-2012 11:36AM

McCain also didn't choose Romney as the vp.. His 'better choice', politically or otherwise, was Palin. What's that say to you?

Brian? · 05-08-2012 03:29PM

Amerika wrote: »

Ah yes, Harry Reid ("Mr. I won’t release my taxes either") feels when it comes to Republicans... you’re guilty until proven innocent. First it was an unnamed source that told him, then a number of sources, now back to just one. The truth is there’s only three people/groups that have access to Romney’s tax returns... The Romneys, their accountant, and the Internal Revenue Service. Anything else would be pure conjecture. Harry should be ashamed of himself!

As Mitt Romney so eloquently put it to Harry Reid... "put up or shut up."

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/03/reid-my-source-on-romneys-taxes-is-so-incredibly-credible-that-i-wont-say-who-he-is/

Why should Harry Reid "put up or shut up"? He's not the one running for the highest political office in the US.

It kinds reminds me of the Bush/Rove tactic of "we're not saying Kerry was a coward in vietnam or that he didn't deserve those purple hearts, but it's a question worth asking". Not a million miles from "we're not saying Obama wasn't born in the US, but it's a legitimate question". The GOP are reaping what they sowed on this issue.

Brian? · 05-08-2012 03:32PM

Overheal wrote: »

McCain also didn't choose Romney as the vp.. His 'better choice', politically or otherwise, was Palin. What's that say to you?

In fairness McCain didn't choose Romney because he new he needed something different to have a chance. Another rich white guy wasn't going to do it for him. But the story does go he preferred Lieberman over Romney as well.

jank · 06-08-2012 08:31AM

Mitt aint too well at the moment I must say. Polls are still close but if this tax thing aint put to bed soon then there will be only one winner, baring a massive surprise, like Obama caught cheating or something of that ilk.

Seriously, why wont Mitt just release his tax returns. Whats in them must be pretty bad for him to take this constant heat, heat that will not go away until November.

Anyway, I think the GOP themselves are happy enough to lose this race, one just has to look at the candidates that went for the nominiation to see that the heavyweights like Rubiuo, Christie are eyeing 2016 possibly against Hillary.

jank · 06-08-2012 08:33AM

briankeating wrote: »

In fairness McCain didn't choose Romney because he new he needed something different to have a chance. Another rich white guy wasn't going to do it for him. But the story does go he preferred Lieberman over Romney as well.

Yeap, have heard that as well. A McCain, Lieberman nomination would have been very tempting for the indo's but the GOP base would have hated it, hence why Hockey Mom Palin got it.

Amerika · 06-08-2012 12:47PM

Sometime Jon Stewart does get it right, as in this clip regarding Harry Reid’s unsubstantiated accusations towards Mitt Romney.

I love the money line… “Here’s a rule of thumb, if you have to follow your claim with the words, ‘I don’t know if this is true’ then shut up.”

http://washingtonexaminer.com/jon-stewart-tells-harry-reid-to-shut-up-after-bullsht-shot-on-mitt-romney/article/2503817

Luckily the economy is fine, the unemployment situation is fine, Social Security if fine, Medicare is fine, unsustainable deficit spending is fine, and ObamaCare won't bankrupt us... so it frees up the Obama reelection goons to focus their campaign on stuff like this.

Memnoch · 06-08-2012 02:50PM

Whats in them must be pretty bad for him to take this constant heat, heat that will not go away until November.

This is the problem. Because every day that goes by, this is what everyone is going to assume.

Of course he's planted his flag now so he can't you turn because if he does, whatever they show will look 10x worse because of him 'trying to hide it.'

Amerika · 06-08-2012 03:10PM

Barack Obama’s a Marxist, do I know that that's true? Well, I'm not certain. But obviously he can't admit to it. How would it look?

Sound legit? Would all those supporting Harry Reid’s claim, also support this?

Or how about this one… Barack Obama was portrayed to America as being qualified to be president of the US pretty much just because he’s just so damn intelligent. Release your academic transcripts Mr. President and prove it!

These are just as ridiculous as the show me your taxes nonsense and only distracts from the important issues in this campaign.

Brian? · 06-08-2012 05:13PM

Amerika wrote: »

Sometime Jon Stewart does get it right, as in this clip regarding Harry Reid’s unsubstantiated accusations towards Mitt Romney.

I love the money line… “Here’s a rule of thumb, if you have to follow your claim with the words, ‘I don’t know if this is true’ then shut up.”

http://washingtonexaminer.com/jon-stewart-tells-harry-reid-to-shut-up-after-bullsht-shot-on-mitt-romney/article/2503817

Luckily the economy is fine, the unemployment situation is fine, Social Security if fine, Medicare is fine, unsustainable deficit spending is fine, and ObamaCare won't bankrupt us... so it frees up the Obama reelection goons to focus their campaign on stuff like this.

Ah come on. It's one strand of their campaign. Just like the GOP thought it was fine to stoke the fire when it came to "birther" conspiracy theories. It's a taste of their own medicine.

Do I think it's right? Not really. Harry Reid shouldn't be repeating gossip. It gives Romeny something to bite back against. The Democratic party line should be: "What's Mitt Romney hidinng?". Leave it there, no need to speculate.

Morally it's also wrong I might add, but let's face it the GOP are not exactly saints when it comes to mud slinging.

The Obama campaign are also releasing plenty of positive adds on the economy, Obamacare, jobs etc. . You know, all that stuff he's done well over the last 4 years.

Brian? · 06-08-2012 05:18PM

Amerika wrote: »

Barack Obama’s a Marxist, do I know that that's true? Well, I'm not certain. But obviously he can't admit to it. How would it look?

Sound legit? Would all those supporting Harry Reid’s claim, also support this?

Or how about this one… Barack Obama was portrayed to America as being qualified to be president of the US pretty much just because he’s just so damn intelligent. Release your academic transcripts Mr. President and prove it!

They sound eerily similar to what the GOP were saying during the 08 campaign.

These are just as ridiculous as the show me your taxes nonsense and only distracts from the important issues in this campaign.

Romney not releasing his taxes fair game, get over it. If he's such a great American he should be only too happy to do so. If he pays feck all tax doesn't that make him a bigger hero to the right wing?

The man is trying to prove he can empathise with the average American when he lives on another planet financially.

06-08-2012 05:53PM

joseph brand wrote: »

And he won't release his tax returns.

He may have asked for an extension in doing the 2011 return (which is not all that unusual in the States), but this link shows the Romney 1040 joint return front page for the 2010 tax year.

His adjusted gross income was $21,646,507 in the 2010 tax year per the first page of the 1040.

EDIT:
There are approximately 40,000 Americans with $30 million or more per the Wall Street Journal (310 million US population last census), so Romney is certainly in the top 1% of Americans in terms of wealth, with a Forbes estimated net worth of $230 million.

Amerika · 06-08-2012 05:55PM

If Romney broke the law, then he’s a criminal and subject to IRS scrutiny. The government can access tax records if there's a credible allegation of tax evasion. (Do you think the Senate majority leader is credible?)

But if he legally took steps within the tax code to pay as little money as possible in taxes, they he’s the same as every other American. We all try to figure out at tax time how to pay as little in taxes as possible.

Reid has now successfully made people loath Congress and the Senate even more than they did before, as it is nothing more than pure politics.

LOL… now just today, even the White House is distancing themselves from Reid, after (IMO) they waited to see how it weighed out in the polls, and saw that this thing is toxic for Reid and the Democrats... and stinks of dirty politics.

troposphere · 06-08-2012 10:11PM

I doesn't matter if he is paying his taxes legally. Conservatives have blabbered on for the past few decades about the rich being overtaxed and the Presidential nominee they picked has tax returns that most likely show that to be complete nonsense.

Duck Soup · 06-08-2012 10:31PM

There's something that doesn't add up here - and for all the opprobrium being heaped on Harry Reid's head, I think he's onto something.

Romney apparently wants to talk about the big stuff. The economy and all that. This would appear at the moment to consist of (a) lying through his teeth to claim that President Obama said something he didn't (i.e. "You didn't build that business" when, as that Harry Reid destroyer, Jon Stewart points out, if you don't understand that he was saying "You didn't build the infrastructure that facilitates your business", you're either a liar or an imbecile). (b) Characterizing everything President Obama says as "foreign". The word is shoehorned into just about every Romney stump speech and surrogate speech. If that isn't a dogwhistle, I don't know WTF is.

But no matter. Here's what doesn't add up. If Romney wants to set the news agenda rather than spending the next 3 months reacting to it, then release the damned tax records. If he pays plenty in taxes - I saw one claim of millions every year - then release the damned tax records.

As long as he's refusing to do so, the only story in town is Reid's "He didn't pay taxes for years". That story will remain the de facto story of Romney's tax records unless and until it is contradicted by hard evidence. The fact that Romney refuses to accede to request for him to make the records available - personally I think it's a WASP arrogance at the impertinence of the oiks to demand something of him; not something he's used to - makes it look like he's got something to hide.

This isn't going away any time soon, seeing as Romney appears to have antagonized a lot of journalists on his foreign trip alone, I don't think they're in the mood to forgive and forget. Most people will say "If he's got nothing to hide, then why is he hiding it?". Harry Reid has given them a plausible explanation, but one that could be demolished in five minutes with some pieces of paper. Has any candidate ever been as tone deaf politically as Romney?

joseph brand · 07-08-2012 12:53AM

What’s Mitt Romney hiding, exactly? Why won’t he release his long-form birth certificate college transcripts tax returns? Well, his tax returns are probably just the words “I DON’T HAVE TIME FOR THIS PEASANT WORK I’M QUITE RICH YOU SEE” scrawled in a Montblanc on an otherwise blank 1040EZ, but we’ll likely never know: He refuses to release any returns from prior to 2010 (he claims he’ll get around to showing us his 2011 return), which is all sort of weird because the guy has been planning on running for president for a while, and one thing presidential candidates do is release a whole bunch of tax returns, a practice pioneered by this guy named George Romney, the kindly puppeteer/scientist who crafted/programmed young Willard.

Ann Romney: ““We’ve given all you people need to know and understand about our financial situation and how we live our life.”

One has a strong distaste for 'regular' folk. I'm not sure that she is living in the real world.

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/19/why_romney_wont_release_tax_returns_to_you_people/

Do I even have to mention any of Mitt's offshore bank accounts?

R.Money is the puppet of the .01% who will run public service into the ground, out-source jobs, off-shore their private equity, remove inheritance tax, privatize social security, repeal healthcare and cast the middle-classes into poverty and despair. If Obama can't defeat R.Money, the Democrats deserve the misery that will bury them for the next 20 years, because there will be no recovery. (Shamelessly stolen comment from BBC NEWS)

A vote for Romney is obviously a vote for the 1%. Now, why the hell would any of the 99% vote for Romney? Isn't it like the turkeys voting for xmas?

Anyway, if he releases his tax returns (which he won't), and they're all in order and legit (which they aren't), then the press can get back to asking him why he baptised his dead father-in-law, a year after he died. Or more importantly, why is he a 'mad as a bottle of crisps Mormon', who donates millions to his crazy church?

joseph brand · 07-08-2012 01:48AM

Manach wrote: »

Romney paid $2.8 million last year in tax.

What a patriot.

He avoided the draft for Vietnam, due to his spreading the moron mormon message in France. But dammit, he 'wishes' he could have went. C'est la vie.

What a patriotic American.

joseph brand · 07-08-2012 02:01AM

Amerika wrote: »

Ah yes, Harry Reid ("Mr. I won’t release my taxes either") feels when it comes to Republicans... you’re guilty until proven innocent. First it was an unnamed source that told him, then a number of sources, now back to just one. The truth is there’s only three people/groups that have access to Romney’s tax returns... The Romneys, their accountant, and the Internal Revenue Service. Anything else would be pure conjecture. Harry should be ashamed of himself!

As Mitt Romney so eloquently put it to Harry Reid... "put up or shut up."

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/03/reid-my-source-on-romneys-taxes-is-so-incredibly-credible-that-i-wont-say-who-he-is/

Romney told Reid to “put up or shut up,” which is comical. Romney is the one holding the tax returns, not Reid. Only the candidate can “put up” — and he steadfastly refuses to do so.

Whatever your views on Mr Reid, have you nothing to say about Romney's unwillingness to show his tax returns? Obama has given 12 years worth. Romney should do likewise, as Americans have expected of every presidential candidate since, well, since Romney’s father set the standard in 1968. Where there's smoke and all that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-warring-over-tax-returns/2012/08/06/73fa40ec-dff6-11e1-8fc5-a7dcf1fc161d_story.html

Romney's+Olympic+Experience.jpg

jank · 07-08-2012 07:36AM

joseph brand wrote: »

Anyway, if he releases his tax returns (which he won't), and they're all in order and legit (which they aren't), then the press can get back to asking him why he baptised his dead father-in-law, a year after he died. Or more importantly, why is he a 'mad as a bottle of crisps Mormon', who donates millions to his crazy church?

In fairness you cannot claim the above in bold as you cannot tell the future. Also, I dont think anyone is suggesting that he did anything illegal, just that he probably paid little tax and availed of legal loopholes. Of course everything is conjecture which is the whole point of the story.

Amerika · 07-08-2012 12:55PM

I have it from a credible source, which I will not name, that the White House coordinated with Harry Reid to spread lies about Mitt Romney and his taxes. I don’t really know if it is true or not.

By most arguments I’ve seen here, it is now the responsibility of the White House to prove they didn’t coordinate with Reid to spread lies about Romney... right? And failure to do so is a presumed admission of guilt... correct?

Amerika · 07-08-2012 01:16PM

In general, PolitiFact, whom I consider to be more favorable to the Left than the Right in their ratings... sometimes does get it right and gave Harry Reid’s accusations their dubious "PANTS ON FIRE" rating. Their explaination is worth reading.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/06/harry-reid/harry-reid-says-anonymous-source-told-him-mitt-rom/

Duck Soup · 07-08-2012 01:38PM

The thing is that no one is denying that there's not a shred of evidence to back up Reid's claims. Reid himself said as much.

The problem is that if Romney refuses to release his tax returns, then Reid's picked-up-and-disseminated piece of gossip remains the only game in town. The issue of the tax returns is then going to dog Romney and his campaign until its addressed.

My guess? That there were some years where Romney paid very little in taxes - maybe 3 or 4%. And that's the problem for Romney. He'd rather Reid's gossip was up there to be shot down than to give the media the cast-iron evidence that quite often he's been paying a tax rate way below what the average Joe pays.

I still find it insane that Romney thought it would never be an issue, especially given that his own father pioneered the practice of presidential candidates releasing tax records.

Note as well that in his successful run for governor of Massachusetts in 2002, his Democratic opponent, Shannon O'Brien, released her tax records, but Romney claimed that this wasn't enough as she hadn't released her husband's tax records.

Romney himself - naturally - refused to release any of his own tax records. Like you do, when you're accusing someone else of hiding something.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/romney-campaign-attacked-opponent-for-refusing-to

matthew8 · 07-08-2012 01:58PM

I believe Shannon O'Brien's husband was in Enron I believe, possibly the most hated company in America at the time.

Duck Soup · 07-08-2012 02:33PM

matthew8 wrote: »

I believe Shannon O'Brien's husband was in Enron I believe, possibly the most hated company in America at the time.

Well, there are quite a few things to be said about Romney's calling for Emmet Hayes' tax records within the context of that political race.

For starters, O'Brien's husband didn't work within Enron - he was a lobbyist for them. I appreciate that lobbyists aren't especially popular at the best of times, but he was an external contractor for the firm. His tax records would only have relevant had he benefitted from the internal shenanigans within the firm. Highly unlikely.

Secondly, he had ceased to represent Enron 2 years before his wife's race for governor. It was a tangential connection to the governorship race at best, by the time of the election, it was defunct.

Lastly, and most simply, you don't go shouting for the tax records of your opponent's husband when you haven't released a single page of your own tax affairs. That's either chutzpah or phenomenal stupidity.

Part of what animated the 2002 Romney campaign to go after Hayes was the desire to draw fire away from - surprise, surprise - his record at Bain, where O'Brien had accused him of asset-stripping firms such as Dade Behring, Stage Stores, AmPad and GS Industries.

Seems Romney's problems today are the ones that have followed him throughout his political career and that he's never come close to resolving.

Amerika · 07-08-2012 02:42PM

Duck Soup wrote: »

The thing is that no one is denying that there's not a shred of evidence to back up Reid's claims. Reid himself said as much.

The problem is that if Romney refuses to release his tax returns, then Reid's picked-up-and-disseminated piece of gossip remains the only game in town. The issue of the tax returns is then going to dog Romney and his campaign until its addressed.

You bring up a good and valid point. And unfortunately will be the game in town... for the time being. Therefore I’ll provide you with a true scenario very similar to Harry Reid’s contention regarding Mitt Romney’s taxes, and see what the general consensus is.

That being the claims of a classmate of Barack Obama at Columbia University, Class of ’83, and both being in Pre-Law and Political Science majors. While there, he never met him, never saw him, never even heard of him. And none of the classmates that he knew at Columbia had ever met, saw, or heard of Barack Obama (or Barry Soetoro, as he was known then). Also, The Wall Street Journal reported back in 2008 that Fox News randomly called 400 of his Columbia classmates and found none who had ever met Obama.

He surmises:

Obama got a leg up by being admitted to both Occidental and Columbia as a foreign exchange student. He was raised as a young boy in Indonesia. But did his mother ever change him back to a U.S. citizen? When he returned to live with his grandparents in Hawaii or as he neared college-age preparing to apply to schools, did he ever change his citizenship back? I’m betting not.
If you could unseal Obama’s Columbia University records I believe you’d find that:
A) He rarely ever attended class.
His grades were not those typical of what we understand it takes to get into Harvard Law School.
C) He attended Columbia as a foreign exchange student.
D) He paid little for either undergraduate college or Harvard Law School because of foreign aid and scholarships given to a poor foreign students like this kid Barry Soetoro from Indonesia.
If you think I’m "fishing" then prove me wrong. Open up your records Mr. President. What are you afraid of?

So, would this be fair game to pursue?
　
(special note: Although I could, I’m purposely not providing a link or source of the information, as not doing so fits within the realm of this debated topic issue.)

Duck Soup · 07-08-2012 03:36PM

Amerika wrote: »

So, would this be fair game to pursue?

The "Obama didn't go to Columbia" tripe has been floating around emails and right-wing websites for years now.

The only problem is that people do remember him from his time there. His roommate at Columbia, Sohale Siddiqi, for example.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2008-05-15-3144401415_x.htm

Or Phil Boerner, another roommate of Obama's at Columbia.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/recollections-of-obamas-ex-roommate/

And then there's the documentary evidence such as an article written by Obama for a Columbia student mag during his time there.

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM116_obamaessay.html

Snopes pretty much nailed the He Wasn't At Columbia meme as a giant steaming pile from beginning to end.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/columbia.asp

As ever, it's the difference between accusations and proof.

Reid accuses Romney, but he has no proof.

Romney accuses Shannon O'Brien, but he has no proof.

Various people accuse Obama of not being at Columbia, but they are definitively disproved by witness and documentary evidence.

The Boston Herald accuses Romney of being involved with Bain after he claims to have left the firm and the Herald's claims are proven accurate by the Bain company files that were submitted in 2000, 2001 and 2002.

But I come back to it - Reid is playing a canny game with Romney. He know damned well that the Romney Paid No Tax Some Years gossip is probably untrue. The problem is the only way Romney can disprove it is by showing that some years he paid 4%, 5% or 6% tax.

Oops.

Obama releases ad attacking Romney!

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