EI/EY Partnership Announcement on Tuesday - Telegraph

charliehotel · 29-07-2012 06:05PM #1

''Etihad, the Gulf airline, is eyeing a seat on the board of Aer Lingus as it builds ambitions for its own global network to rival the likes of British Airways’ oneworld alliance.
The airline, which sponsors Manchester City Football Club, will on Tuesday announce a code-share agreement with Aer Lingus that will allow Etihad customers to be booked onto the Irish carrier’s routes to the US and Europe.''

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/9436735/Etihad-eyes-seat-on-Aer-Lingus-board.html

Exciting

seanmacc · 29-07-2012 08:08PM

Hopefully this will lead to the re-introduction of the LAX and/or SFO routes and maybe bring the trans-atlantic fares down a bit from this years prices.

dercu · 29-07-2012 08:56PM

Hopefully this will help close the door on Ryanairs bid.

seanmacc · 29-07-2012 09:12PM

dercu wrote: »

Hopefully this will help close the door on Ryanairs bid.

I don't think the Ryanair bid was serious anyway. I think it was a move on their part to secure maximum value for their shares.

dercu · 29-07-2012 09:22PM

seanmacc wrote: »

I don't think the Ryanair bid was serious anyway. I think it was a move on their part to secure maximum value for their shares.

I agree Seanmacc. That's what me a friends were thinking. Interesting time ahead

Savman · 30-07-2012 09:35AM

Confirmed;
http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/aer-lingus-announces-partnership-deal-with-etihad-537727-Jul2012/

Good news IMHO.

Tenger · 30-07-2012 09:55AM

Also in the Indo today:
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aer-lingus-to-share-flights-with-ethiad-airways-in-new-commercial-agreement-3183091.html

I would assume that this partnership will eventually follow the Air Berlin and Air Seychelles route.

Savman · 30-07-2012 11:05AM

Makes sense, pax coming from Abu Dhabi can go thru the USCBP in DUB before connecting to the states. Going the other direction, having only one stop to reach the far east can only be a good thing.

It is matching what LH/AF/BA etc are offering and makes EI that bit more competitive on the medium to long haul.

Turbine · 30-07-2012 02:24PM

Savman wrote: »

Makes sense, pax coming from Abu Dhabi can go thru the USCBP in DUB before connecting to the states. Going the other direction, having only one stop to reach the far east can only be a good thing.

It is matching what LH/AF/BA etc are offering and makes EI that bit more competitive on the medium to long haul.

AFAIK USCBP will be available in Abu Dhabi soon, so that's not why Etihad are code sharing on Aer Lingus' US routes. This is Etihad using Aer Lingus as a way to expand into the US on routes it doesn't currently serve direct from Abu Dhabi such as Boston. Canada has also restricted Middle East airlines from expanding capacity, so Etihad could also use Aer Lingus as a means of expansion there, given the Open Skies deal between the EU and Canada.

LiamoSail · 31-07-2012 01:56PM

Any outside influence on Aer Lingus can only be a good thing. They're a disaster as is

charliehotel · 31-07-2012 02:09PM

LiamoSail wrote: »

They're a disaster as is

May I ask, on what grounds do you base this statement?

Bessarion · 31-07-2012 02:51PM

LiamoSail wrote: »

Any outside influence on Aer Lingus can only be a good thing. They're a disaster as is

That's odd, as I have been reading through their H1 results (released today,have you read it?) and they are estimating a full year profit above their 2011 total (which was +E49M)
In additional looking at their figures, their cash flow per employee is easily among the top 5 in Europe. Pretty decent showing for a "marginal regional carrier" experiencing a hard recession in its home market.

From a purely financial point of view I can't see why they are a disaster, maybe you don't like allocated seating, fresh quality products onboard, pre-order meals, seats that recline, seatpockets, an ethos of customer care, IFE on longhaul flights, Business class upgrade options, powerpoints in Y class on A330..............

Shamrock231 · 31-07-2012 02:52PM

Not to mention the roll out of Wifi in the A330 fleet by the end of the year... =D

charliehotel · 31-07-2012 02:58PM

Bessarion wrote: »

allocated seating, fresh quality products onboard, pre-order meals, seats that recline, seatpockets, an ethos of customer care, IFE on longhaul flights, Business class upgrade options, powerpoints in Y class on A330..............

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Not to mention the roll out of Wifi in the A330 fleet by the end of the year... =D

Precisely.

LiamoSail are you really sure that

LiamoSail wrote: »

they're a disaster as is

?

LiamoSail · 31-07-2012 04:40PM

charliehotel wrote: »

May I ask, on what grounds do you base this statement?

As a customer. I fly quiet regularly with various different airlines and I just find Aer Lingus incredibly poor relative to what they charge.

Having flown Etihad previously, I believe they could only improve the level of service

Perhaps I'm being old fashioned, but I'd expect Aer Lingus to fit more into the BA category interms of service etc then the Ryanair category, but I've found them to be firmly in the latter category

Perhaps its just how my own experiences have worked out, but given the choice, and leaving aside cost, I'd choose Ryanair over Aer Lingus any day of the week for both reliability and service

charliehotel · 31-07-2012 05:34PM

LiamoSail wrote: »

As a customer. I fly quiet regularly with various different airlines and I just find Aer Lingus incredibly poor relative to what they charge.

Having flown Etihad previously, I believe they could only improve the level of service

Perhaps I'm being old fashioned, but I'd expect Aer Lingus to fit more into the BA category interms of service etc then the Ryanair category, but I've found them to be firmly in the latter category

Perhaps its just how my own experiences have worked out, but given the choice, and leaving aside cost, I'd choose Ryanair over Aer Lingus any day of the week for both reliability and service

My head boils over when I hear this argument from (usually Irish) people that Aer Lingus is expensive and offers poor service.

The notion of low cost air travel is, mostly due to Ryanair, now embedded within the psyche of the Irish consumer. Irish people want cheap flights. Aer Lingus directly competes with Ryanair on 44 routes in 2012. Although this is the very reason why Ryanair hasn't and won't be allowed to take over Aer Lingus, it is also the reason why Aer Lingus doesn't offer the full typical flag carrier service - it has to compete with Ryanair. Aer Lingus is a business and has to make money.

If Aer Lingus was like British Airways, Lufthansa, Air France etc. people wouldn't chose to fly with them because, as I previously stated, Irish consumers have adjusted to wanting the lowest fares - they simply wouldn't pay for higher fares. I think that this can be illustrated in the fact the the lowest fare to LHR with BA is now €60, Aer Lingus is €36 - Aer Lingus is in fact cheap!Therefore, it reveals that Aer Lingus is actually merely astute in adapting to the demands of the Irish market, which I believe is very commendable.

As highlighted in earlier posts, Aer Lingus offers the following that Ryanair does not:

-airport lounges at DUB, LHR and BOS
-different fare options ie. Low, Plus, Flex
-allocated seating for all
-fresh quality food onboard with an extensive menu
-pre-order meals
-seats that recline, with moveable headrests
-seatpockets
-an ethos of customer care
-longhaul flights
-AVOD IFE on loughaul
-Business class on longhaul
-powerpoints in Y class on A330
-Wifi in the A330 fleet by the end of the year
-Flies to central airports
-frequent flyer programme
-codeshares with a number of large airlines

Using your own example of BA, I myself have flown BA recently from LHR. I found the Y offering to be exactly like Aer Lingus, even had the same seats, but had TV screens (which in practice add minimal value to the in-flight experience) and a free cup of crappy coffee and a pack of potato chips. Otherwise it was more or less the very same as Aer Lingus.

To finish, Aer Lingus is merely doing a damn good job of meeting the very particular needs of its home market, Ireland.

LiamoSail · 31-07-2012 06:06PM

charliehotel wrote: »

My head boils over when I hear this argument from (usually Irish) people that Aer Lingus is expensive and offers poor service.

The notion of low cost air travel is, mostly due to Ryanair, now embedded within the psyche of the Irish consumer. Irish people want cheap flights. Aer Lingus directly competes with Ryanair on 44 routes in 2012. Although this is the very reason why Ryanair hasn't and won't be allowed to take over Aer Lingus, it is also the reason why Aer Lingus doesn't offer the full typical flag carrier service - it has to compete with Ryanair. Aer Lingus is a business and has to make money.

If Aer Lingus was like British Airways, Lufthansa, Air France etc. people wouldn't chose to fly with them because, as I previously stated, Irish consumers have adjusted to wanting the lowest fares - they simply wouldn't pay for higher fares. I think that this can be illustrated in the fact the the lowest fare to LHR with BA is now €60, Aer Lingus is €36 - Aer Lingus is in fact cheap!Therefore, it reveals that Aer Lingus is actually merely astute in adapting to the demands of the Irish market, which I believe is very commendable.

As highlighted in earlier posts, Aer Lingus offers the following that Ryanair does not:

-airport lounges at DUB, LHR and BOS
-different fare options ie. Low, Plus, Flex
-allocated seating for all
-fresh quality food onboard with an extensive menu
-pre-order meals
-seats that recline, with moveable headrests
-seatpockets
-an ethos of customer care
-longhaul flights
-AVOD IFE on loughaul
-Business class on longhaul
-powerpoints in Y class on A330
-Wifi in the A330 fleet by the end of the year
-Flies to central airports
-frequent flyer programme
-codeshares with a number of large airlines

Using your own example of BA, I myself have flown BA recently from LHR. I found the Y offering to be exactly like Aer Lingus, even had the same seats, but had TV screens (which in practice add minimal value to the in-flight experience) and a free cup of crappy coffee and a pack of potato chips. Otherwise it was more or less the very same as Aer Lingus.

To finish, Aer Lingus is merely doing a damn good job of meeting the very particular needs of its home market, Ireland.

You've made a lot of excellent points, and I agree to a large extent. I understand why Aer Lingus have had to shift strategy over the last 10 years, and as has been highlighted in previous posts, it seems to be paying dividend

I would still maintain though that for the same price I would choose Ryanair over Aer Lingus. With Ryanair, you know what to expect and among all the well publicised negatives, you can be reasonably confident you'll reach for your destination on time. The same, and again I'm referring to my own experiences rather then any figures, I couldn't say for Aer Lingus

Aer Lingus in my experience, are just an unreliable Ryanair in disguise

Shamrock231 · 31-07-2012 06:10PM

http://www.flightontime.info/scheduled/airports/lhr12.html
Aer Lingus, the most on time Airline at Heathrow Q1 this year,

http://www.flightontime.info/scheduled/airports/man12.html
http://www.flightontime.info/scheduled/airports/bhx12.html
Aer Lingus, the second most on time Airline at Manchester and Birmingham Q1 this year.

http://www.flightontime.info/scheduled/airlines/ein12.html
Average delay in Q1 this year was 6 mins.
90.18% of flights within 15 mins of scheduled departure time.

http://www.flightontime.info/scheduled/scheduled.html
EIN was 4th most punctual Airline in comparison to Ryanair's 16th Overall for Q1.

http://www.flightontime.info/news/20120730.html
Aer Lingus the Most punctual Airline Overall in the month of May

Bear in mind these are delays in departure, and time could have been made up or lost en-route.

Not exactly the sign of an "Unreliable" airline...

LiamoSail · 31-07-2012 06:23PM

Shamrock231 wrote: »

http://www.flightontime.info/scheduled/airports/lhr12.html
Aer Lingus, the most on time Airline at Heathrow Q1 this year,

http://www.flightontime.info/scheduled/airports/man12.html
Aer Lingus, the second most on time Airline at Manchester Q1 this year.

http://www.flightontime.info/scheduled/airlines/ein12.html
Average delay in Q1 this year was 6 mins.
90.18% of flights within 15 mins of scheduled departure time.

http://www.flightontime.info/scheduled/scheduled.html
EIN was 4th most punctual Airline in comparison to Ryanair's 16th.

Bear in mind these are delays in departure, and time could have been made up or lost en-route.

Not exactly the sign of an "Unreliable" airline...

Is there equivalent statistics for arriving on time?

I honestly don't care how late a flight is departing, once it arrives, within reason, on time. Late departures infact mean less time sitting on the plane so it really doesn't bother me

Shamrock231 · 31-07-2012 06:28PM

LiamoSail wrote: »

Is there equivalent statistics for arriving on time?

I honestly don't care how late a flight is departing, once it arrives, within reason, on time. Late departures infact mean less time sitting on the plane so it really doesn't bother me

In general on short haul flights you can only make up about 2-8 minutes on time depending on the sector length...

Typical in flight delays can be between 5-12 mins, unless the aircraft decides to divert, or carries extra fuel and hold a bit longer instead of diverting, though Ryanair in general employs a minimum fuel policy, so chances are they'll divert sooner if they don't think the weather will clear up soon enough by the time they need to land.

LiamoSail · 31-07-2012 06:39PM

Shamrock231 wrote: »

In general on short haul flights you can only make up about 2-8 minutes on time depending on the sector length...

Typical in flight delays can be between 5-12 mins, unless the aircraft decides to divert, or carries extra fuel and hold a bit longer instead of diverting, though Ryanair in general employs a minimum fuel policy, so chances are they'll divert sooner if they don't think the weather will clear up soon enough by the time they need to land.

But don't Ryanair usually leave something up there sleeve? In that what they know should be a one hour flight, they will sell it as an eighty minute flight so that we all think they're either early or on time despite a delayed departure?

Not exact figures, but I've heard they do something along these lines

Shamrock231 · 31-07-2012 06:44PM

LiamoSail wrote: »

But don't Ryanair usually leave something up there sleeve? In that what they know should be a one hour flight, they will sell it as an eighty minute flight so that we all think they're either early or on time despite a delayed departure?

Not exact figures, but I've heard they do something along these lines

No, their flight times on the ticket and Airport boards and timetables are based on IATA (or is it ICAO?, think IATA though) times for that particular route operated by that particular aircraft type. It's not set by Ryanair.

Tenger · 31-07-2012 07:31PM

I know thsi is only an anecdote but 2 years ago we flew from Pisa with FR to Dublin, the sector length was almost equal to the scheduled DUB-FCO with EI that we had taken 4 days previously. (I think it was 10 mins less)

adamski8 · 31-07-2012 07:42PM

Tenger wrote: »

I know thsi is only an anecdote but 2 years ago we flew from Pisa with FR to Dublin, the sector length was almost equal to the scheduled DUB-FCO with EI that we had taken 4 days previously. (I think it was 10 mins less)

different times of day? they might factor that in

bkehoe · 31-07-2012 07:42PM

In my experience the EI long haul offering compares very favourably with the Middle Eastern carriers and exceeds that offered by the likes of BA. The EI fleet is new, modern, spacious and the A330 in Y has the benefit of only 2 rows of seats along the fuselage. Terminal 2 makes checkin and security a hassle free affair and the US pre-screening saves a lot of time queuing in a stuffy long queue. The AVOD database isn't quite the best ever but I'm not fussed about that and prefer to think about the quality of the service, meals and comfort of the seats when judging a carrier. The only thing that lets long haul in Y down in my opinion is the fact that only non-alcoholic drinks are free. At least chuck in 1 drink with the meal lol.

At the end of the day Etihad would not code share with Aer Lingus if they weren't satisfied that the quality and reliability of the service was up to their standards.

donkey balls · 31-07-2012 08:04PM

What a lot of people forget(non aviation types) to take into account regarding aircraft departing/arriving on time is factors outside of the airline company,From my experience working in the industry factors such as ramp congestion due to aircraft still on stands,To taxi delays if using RWY 10 out of Dub along with head winds ATC flow restrictions.

Shamrock231 · 31-07-2012 08:11PM

Exactly, like the Pisa thing Vs. FCO, FCO is the major international airport for that region, Pisa is a smaller one so will likely have less delays die to lower volumes of traffic, which makes the 10 mins figure seem about right...

charliehotel · 31-07-2012 10:36PM

charliehotel wrote: »

The notion of low cost air travel is, mostly due to Ryanair, now embedded within the psyche of the Irish consumer

I'm aware I'm quoting myself, but the above line reminds me of something I noticed when returning from Spain with Aer Lingus a few weeks back.

20/30mins before boarding was due to commence, a number of passengers had already lined up at the gate - obviously well-trained by Ryanair

Bearcat · 31-07-2012 10:49PM

LiamoSail wrote: »

Aer Lingus in my experience, are just an unreliable Ryanair in disguise

I think a very unfair comment.....trolling or genuine?

basill · 01-08-2012 07:01AM

Ryanair isn't a member of IATA. Therefore it can "massage" block times should it wish to. It can also do tricky things like make a flight disappear and return in the guise as a new flight number in order that it arrives ahead of schedule.

When caught out by unforeseen sporting events they have been known to cancel services refunding ticket prices in order to create new "charter" flights at exhorbitant prices.

Those tricks would all be forbidden by IATA. IATA also conducts audits of the airlines operation which FR may not wish them to do.

L1011 · 01-08-2012 07:05AM

LiamoSail wrote: »

Late departures infact mean less time sitting on the plane so it really doesn't bother me

LiamoSail wrote: »

But don't Ryanair usually leave something up there sleeve? In that what they know should be a one hour flight, they will sell it as an eighty minute flight so that we all think they're either early or on time despite a delayed departure?

You're concerned about more time sitting on the plane, but then willingly accept the idea of flight time being artificially inflated, meaning more time sitting on the plane

EI/EY Partnership Announcement on Tuesday - Telegraph

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