Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Mr Alan · 20-07-2012 08:24PM

Melion wrote: »

Lloyd said you don't sack a manager who reaches TWO.CUP.FINALS unless you get relegated. So he wouldn't have wanted Kenny sacked if we finished 17th instead of 8th? It's good of you to stick up for him but I asked the organ grinder not the monkey.

Haha brilliant

Mr Alan · 20-07-2012 08:26PM

djPSB wrote: »

Give the man a chance.

It's not right to be so disrespectful to the man before a ball is even kicked.

What's disrespectful in his post?

djPSB · 20-07-2012 08:43PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

K-9 wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Read the post you quoted again. I'm not assuming we have the money to solve all those problems and that's the ****ing point. With limited resources, getting rid of someone like Spearing would be utter stupidity.

However, **** it, let's go.

IF THIS IS ALL WE ARE GETTING TO SPEND THIS SUMMER THAN FSG AREN'T WHAT WE HOPED THEY WOULD BE

If they thought one round of net investment would do the job then they are deluded. Not enough investment; no solution regarding the Anfield issue; poor HR with respect to all levels of management. I think they haven't a clue if I'm honest.

Hmmm, maybe I got thrown by you wanting to get rid of Downing and the rest of it.

Tell me this, how could you post that and in all seriousness moan about Kenny getting the sack? It doesn't add up. How could you moan, derail and attack posters who unfortunately lost their faith in the man, the same man who is responsible for a lot of the signings and faults you just went on about?

Because we replaced him with a nothing replacement. I've answered this already today. If you're going to sack a living legend who took you to two cup finals it should be because you have a demonstrably superior replacement lined up. Instead we got Brendan ****ing Rodgers.

Well it was this post in particular that I thought was disrespectful.

I was also in the camp that thought Kenny should have got another season, but I don't think that should be used as a stick to beat Rodgers with.

I think Rodgers is ahead of Kenny in almost every aspect of management, the only thing that could have saved Kenny was his status as a club legend and the fact we reached two Cup finals.

I don't think another year under Kenny would have done the club any harm, he always had the best interests of the club at heart.

But Rodgers is appointed now, and for me I don't see any negatives so far. He has a long term vision, trying to transform the orchestra, and has done reasonably well as regards transfers in and out. I will wait until the window closes to make a final judgement on our transfer dealings.

*due to the recent over use of the word system, I am using the word orchestra from now on.

PRAF · 20-07-2012 08:59PM

First post in the Liverpool thread so go easy on me guys!

Question - what is the true level of the current Liverpool team. Is it the team who were at times brilliant in the two great cup runs? Or is it the team that struggled for consistency in the league, especially at home. Did they overperform in the cups or underperform in the league?

For me, that's the key question about the current LFC squad. It will be interesting to see if Rodgers can get more out of the current bunch with a new philosophy. Like others in here, I'm cautiously optimistic.

I'm also a big Kenny fan, but unfortunately either he signed poor players who overperformed in the cups or he signed good players who he couldn't get to play to their potential in the league.

djPSB · 20-07-2012 09:04PM

PRAF wrote: »

First post in the Liverpool thread so go easy on me guys!

Question - what is the true level of the current Liverpool team. Is it the team who were at times brilliant in the two great cup runs? Or is it the team that struggled for consistency in the league, especially at home. Did they overperform in the cups or underperform in the league?

For me, that's the key question about the current LFC squad. It will be interesting to see if Rodgers can get more out of the current bunch with a new philosophy. Like others in here, I'm cautiously optimistic.

I'm also a big Kenny fan, but unfortunately either he signed poor players who overperformed in the cups or he signed good players who he couldn't get to play to their potential in the league.

We have the 6th best squad in the league IMO.

1. City
2. Chelsea
3. Mancs
4. Arsenal
5. Spurs
6. Liverpool + Newcastle
8. Everton

Knex* · 20-07-2012 09:04PM

Melion wrote: »

And like I said yesterday, it makes him a hypocrite of the highest order.

As opposed to believing BR shouldn't have been appointed and that the club is going backwards, yet saying the opposite on here?

Yes Lloyd bangs the we're fucked drum a bit more than maybe he should and can be extreme at times, but saying one thing and believing another is the definition of hypocrisy and this is what you seem to want him to do.

Mr Alan · 20-07-2012 09:06PM

djPSB wrote: »

I think Rodgers is ahead of Kenny in almost every aspect of management, the only thing that could have saved Kenny was his status as a club legend and the fact we reached two Cup finals.

This is a laughable statement. Spoken with nothing other than blind blind hope that far away hills will be greener.

Knex* · 20-07-2012 09:06PM

PRAF wrote: »

First post in the Liverpool thread so go easy on me guys!

Question - what is the true level of the current Liverpool team. Is it the team who were at times brilliant in the two great cup runs? Or is it the team that struggled for consistency in the league, especially at home. Did they overperform in the cups or underperform in the league?

For me, that's the key question about the current LFC squad. It will be interesting to see if Rodgers can get more out of the current bunch with a new philosophy. Like others in here, I'm cautiously optimistic.

I'm also a big Kenny fan, but unfortunately either he signed poor players who overperformed in the cups or he signed good players who he couldn't get to play to their potential in the league.

djPSB · 20-07-2012 09:10PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

djPSB wrote: »

I think Rodgers is ahead of Kenny in almost every aspect of management, the only thing that could have saved Kenny was his status as a club legend and the fact we reached two Cup finals.

This is a laughable statement. Spoken with nothing other than blind blind hope that far away hills will be greener.

In what areas of management of do you think Kenny is stronger than Rodgers?

I am not talking about managerial achievements here.

I am interested in your comparisons in relation to things like transfer dealings, coaching, handling the media, managing players etc.

I love Kenny btw and would have been happy for him to have stayed on.

ThunbergsAreGo · 20-07-2012 09:12PM

djPSB wrote: »

We have the 6th best squad in the league IMO.

1. City
2. Chelsea
3. Mancs
4. Arsenal
5. Spurs
6. Liverpool + Newcastle
8. Everton

we are ahead of Newcastle

djPSB · 20-07-2012 09:15PM

naughtb4 wrote: »

djPSB wrote: »

We have the 6th best squad in the league IMO.

1. City
2. Chelsea
3. Mancs
4. Arsenal
5. Spurs
6. Liverpool + Newcastle
8. Everton

we are ahead of Newcastle

Maybe slightly.

They have a much more balanced squad though.

Cabaye, Tiote, Cisse, Guttierez, Ba, Ben Arfa would all make our team.

Mr Alan · 20-07-2012 09:18PM

djPSB wrote: »

In what areas of management of do you think Kenny is stronger than Rodgers?

I am not talking about managerial achievements here.

I am interested in your comparisons in relation to things like transfer dealings, coaching, handling the media, managing players etc.

I love Kenny btw and would have been happy for him to have stayed on.

Based on their careers to date as managers I feel it would be utterly foolish to Rodgers was ahead of him in any department other than the PR side of things, which tbh should be of no interest to us at all.

Rodgers at Swansea was working under a clear DOF structure & footballing philosophy ingrained at the club prior to his arrival, we have no idea how he is in the transfer market or anything tbh. Reading was the only time he had a similar role to what he has now at Liverpool & he failed pretty miserably. I fully suspect Swansea will be relatively impressive again this season as from all I've read about the club, it's the structure that's most impressive there.

Knex* · 20-07-2012 09:20PM

What's depressing is not so much Newcastle being near our level, although that is pretty bad, the depressing thing is that when I look at the 5 teams ahead of us I can't help but think, ****, we are nowhere near them.

Arsenal are potentially the weakest out of the top 5, especially if they lose RVP. Although Wilshire coming back will be massive for them.

That still leaves one of City, United, Chelsea and Spurs to mess up if we are to take the wild assumption that we can finish ahead of Arsenal.

I'm sorry, but CL football is nowhere near us for another while

ThunbergsAreGo · 20-07-2012 09:21PM

djPSB wrote: »

Maybe slightly.

They have a much more balanced squad though.

Cabaye, Tiote, Cisse, Guttierez, Ba, Ben Arfa would all make our team.

No they all wouldnt Gutierrez wouldnt, no Lucas or Gerrard or Suarez in your team??:eek:

I disagree Guthrie played alot of games for them last year as did Williamson, Simpson. I think they had a great year but almost everything went their way

ButcherOfNog · 20-07-2012 09:28PM

I think the squads of the top three clubs, Man City, Man UTD and Chelsea will stay roughly the same or improve slightly. Where Liverpool ends up depends on what happens with Arsenal, Spurs and Newcastle, I would see all three of them having weaker squads (or for Newcastle, less success) in the upcoming season, so they may drop to our level, rather that Liverpool rising to theirs.

Having said that, if we can fix the goal scoring, and keep everything else from last season, we'll be top 4.

djPSB · 20-07-2012 09:34PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Based on their careers to date as managers I feel it would be utterly foolish to Rodgers was ahead of him in any department other than the PR side of things, which tbh should be of no interest to us at all.

Rodgers at Swansea was working under a clear DOF structure & footballing philosophy ingrained at the club prior to his arrival, we have no idea how he is in the transfer market or anything tbh. Reading was the only time he had a similar role to what he has now at Liverpool & he failed pretty miserably. I fully suspect Swansea will be relatively impressive again this season as from all I've read about the club, it's the structure that's most impressive there.

Okay, I'm saying leave achievements out of it for now.

I am comparing them just on the key attributes that are required of a manager.

For me, Kenny is only at his best when he has good players at this disposal. There isn't much to him tactically, it's basically a 'go and out play' tactic which is fine when you have quality players that are able to act on their own initiative.

But last season Kenny didn't have these quality players at his disposal which is why we didn't see great things from players like Downing, Adam, Henderson. They looked clueless.

I reckon Rodgers is better tactically. He is the complete opposite to the 'go out and play' philosophy. Each player in the orchestra has a defined role.

I think he is better with the media. Kenny brought alot of pressure on himself last season with the manner in which he handled interviews which puts added pressure on the team.

I think Rodgers is a better coach. The players have been full of praise of his coaching methods since he took over. If you look at the videos of the training sessions, they seem alot more intense than last season. Granted, Kenny didn't conduct training last season but he was responsible for employing someone to conduct it on his behalf.

I think Rodgers will be better in the transfer marker. Of course, we don't know this yet but I would be surprised if he doesn't surpass the successes of last seasons transfers of Downing, Adam, Suarez, Coates, Carroll, Henderson, Enrique.

I would have thought Kenny would have had the edge as regard man management but it seems not. Skrtel said this week “He told us right on the first training session we had the door open any time and anything we need we should come to him. He is a little bit different from Dalglish in this.”

I don't think Laudrup will be as successful with Swansea next season. I don't think Dalglish would be able to replicate the success Rodgers achieved with them. They didn't win anything, but they achieved much more than they were entitled to.

Now these are some of the reasons why I think Rodgers is a better manager in the modern day than Dalglish.

I am interested to hear why you think the opposite.

Mr Alan · 20-07-2012 09:39PM

What's the point in having any discussion about a manager where your precede it by saying lets leave managerial achievements out of it?!

G.K. · 20-07-2012 09:41PM

djPSB wrote: »

There isn't much to him tactically.

While I agree that Rodgers is a better tactician than Dalglish, this is harsh.

Remmeber the game against Chelsea where Meireles scored? Dalglish's back 3/interchangeable diamond tactics probably won the game for you's.

djPSB · 20-07-2012 09:43PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

What's the point in having any discussion about a manager where your precede it by saying lets leave managerial achievements out of it?!

So going by your reasoning, we should have just employed the most successful manager?

Doesn't always work that way.

Why did RDM win the CL with Chelsea when AVB was struggling all season?

Was it because he had achieved more?

djPSB · 20-07-2012 09:45PM

G.K. wrote: »

While I agree that Rodgers is a better tactician than Dalglish, this is harsh.

Remmeber the game against Chelsea where Meireles scored? Dalglish's back 3/interchangeable diamond tactics probably won the game for you's.

Maybe a tad harsh. But I would rate Rodgers better tactically out of the two..

Mr Alan · 20-07-2012 09:45PM

No, it was because the players decided to put in a shift. Stupid decision long term by Chelsea to sack AVB & appoint RDM. That'll end in tears, likely by the end of next season.

mike65 · 20-07-2012 09:46PM

G.K. wrote: »

While I agree that Rodgers is a better tactician than Dalglish, this is harsh.

Remmeber the game against Chelsea where Meireles scored? Dalglish's back 3/interchangeable diamond tactics probably won the game for you's.

One of the few times Dalglish was thinking outside the box and that was right at the start of his tenure and so fooled a few of us into thinking we were heading back to the sunny uplands. The true Dalglish was the one who had no clue about pressing, switching attacks, making changes on the hoof (late and poor subbing policy).

Mr Alan · 20-07-2012 09:49PM

I expect people to be bemoaning the lack of a plan B tactically under Rodgers by the middle of September.

djPSB · 20-07-2012 09:49PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

No, it was because the players decided to put in a shift. Stupid decision long term by Chelsea to sack AVB & appoint RDM. That'll end in tears, likely by the end of next season.

So RDM managerial achievements were irrelevant.

Would you prefer to see Trappatoni in charge rather than Rodgers, considering he has 'achieved' more?

Mr Alan · 20-07-2012 09:51PM

He's a bit old, but if I'd a choice between the two for 1 season it'd be Trap every day of the week.

mike65 · 20-07-2012 09:51PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I expect people to be bemoaning the lack of a plan B tactically under Rodgers by the middle of September.

and no doubt you secretly hope thats the case eh?

My critique of Dalglish is based on what happened whereas you and LL are attacking Rodgers for events yet to happen.

djPSB · 20-07-2012 09:52PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

He's a bit old, but if I'd a choice between the two for 1 season it'd be Trap every day of the week.

I'm sorry I cannot help you so.

Knex* · 20-07-2012 09:58PM

Also, RDM has far more top level experience than Brendan Rodgers. Still think Chelsea will regret sacking AVB for him though.

Super-Rush · 20-07-2012 10:02PM

I bet if Rodgers bought Alan an ice cream he'd complain that it was too cold.

djPSB · 20-07-2012 10:05PM

Super-Rush wrote: »

I bet if Rodgers bought Alan an ice cream he'd complain that it was too cold.

Criticism is fair enough, but I think he is attention seeking at this stage.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

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