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Why not Suffolks?

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Comments

  • #32
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    rancher wrote: »
    Put simply..... If a ewe pops out a head at 3am are you happy enough to stay in bed until he's good and swollen or get up at 4am and sort it

    :confused:

    Put simply..... Improve the breed to the point where the ewe can have the lamb/s herself. That's the point.


  • #33
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    Cran wrote: »
    A big issue here is too many breeders have no connection to commercial breeding.
    I attend way to many sheep sales, too many sheep over fed and some others not up to scratch and should have been culled rather than be in pedigree sales. Many breeders will tell you that the farmer want these fed sheep as most buy on size, until that changes in Ireland the breeders wouldn't change simple....
    Was at couple of sales in the north and England last year and I believe its even a bigger problem there.....
    I agree with that, running a little pedigree flock with cows or cattle they always look spectacular, very hard for sheep farmers to compete. Don't know how they do but the farmers keep coming back to buy these 'pets'


  • #34
    Cran
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭Cran


    johngalway wrote: »
    :confused:

    Put simply..... Improve the breed to the point where the ewe can have the lamb/s herself. That's the point.

    This is only to an extent...will always have breach births, legs not presented etc that are difficult to breed out. lambed 800 ewes last year handled about 30 which as a % I think is excellent and would be difficult to reduce. I check them all day and early morning for 2 weeks at the peak of lambing, lamb over 90% down in 3 weeks. Don't think its possible to get 100% with no lambing problems, and then if you don't check regularly you will have ewe losses and at current prices makes sense to spend the time I think.....

    on another point my lambing issues are probably doubled this year due to larger lambs. I haven't changed anything management wise and have put this down to the mild weather in Feb/March


  • #35
    Arrow in the Knee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Arrow in the Knee


    Arrow in the Knee wrote: »
    This thread seems like it will end up as a debate about overfeeding, show ring breeding and other extremities in the pedigree sheep breeding world.

    I knew it


  • #36
    sea12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭sea12


    Arrow in the Knee wrote: »
    I knew it

    Interesting debate all the same! I use Suffolk Rams on my flock for the past few years. Before that I used Charollais and before that Texel. I definitely have had more problems with Suffolk over the past two years V other breeds. I actually like the suffolk breed as the lams grow quickly and kill out well. However I am thinking of changing to Vendeen next year. I work full time. I Take a week off at the height of the lambing but depend on my parents who are retired to help out. Too many issues for them to be handling.

    As for the person getting up at 4am, I think thats madness also. how many sheep have you had to handle at that hour. i find ewes generally only start to lamb from 6.30 onwards when daylight breaks.


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  • #37
    Arrow in the Knee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Arrow in the Knee


    sea12 wrote: »
    As for the person getting up at 4am, I think thats madness also. how many sheep have you had to handle at that hour. i find ewes generally only start to lamb from 6.30 onwards when daylight breaks.

    For peace of mind:rolleyes:


  • #38
    sheeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭sheeper


    People need to look at the female more rather than the males, it's the same as ped cattle, every one is chasing the big prize winning RAM/BULL,
    , what is basically happening is that when a ped breeder selects his sire they normally select for traits to reproduce quality males, now 50% will be female
    And there lays the problem

    If rams were bred for female line you would be much better off,


  • #39
    brownswiss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭brownswiss


    Arrow in the Knee wrote: »
    I have a large flock of ewes with the majority 3/4 and 7/8 pure Suffolk ewes put to a Suffolk ram.

    Lambs grow like mushrooms!

    My Suffolks aren't dirty/bad hooves either compared to other breeds I have.

    More propaganda from the Texel Society.
    ...

    Fair play to who ever came up with that description of Suffolk...

    I have suffolk lambs this year for the first time in a while.... Had to assist most of their births and am out with the baby wipes since... why cant they wipe their own like the other breeds?

    I think suffolk is an important cross for breeding ewes so i reintroduce it back every couple of years..

    The ram i bought is very big with ridiculous legs and head..... as someone asked why has the breed gone this way. The offspring are no better than what was produced by smaller rams 10 yrs ago


  • #40
    Arrow in the Knee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Arrow in the Knee


    Lads if you seen a ram in a pen or field for sale with light head and bone you would winge about it not being very masculine and looks more feminine looking.

    Breeders supply what the market wants.

    Rams get sold on their looks rather than figures because few commercial buyers are not interested/educated about using peformance records.

    If more buyers bought rams that had light bone and above average ''ebv's'' more breeders would produce rams to suit your needs.

    Until then 'Status Quo'!


  • #41
    brownswiss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭brownswiss


    Arrow in the Knee wrote: »
    Lads if you seen a ram in a pen or field for sale with light head and bone you would winge about it not being very masculine and looks more feminine looking.

    Breeders supply what the market wants.

    Rams get sold on their looks rather than figures because few commercial buyers are not interested/educated about using peformance records.

    If more buyers bought rams that had light bone and above average ''ebv's'' more breeders would produce rams to suit your needs.

    Until then 'Status Quo'!
    ...
    Arrow is correct about the feminine rams.....

    Only the ped Suffolk breeders can tell us how the breed has ended up with such massive legs and head... I ( as did a previous poster ) made the mistake of buying the prize winner in Roscommon last year. I thought it better to leave the judging to the judges. I assisted every birth. I thought it would be worth it as i had great lambs.. My Charalois and Dutch X CH rams progeny are finishing faster.... so contrary to what the ladies think... Big is not better


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  • #42
    Conflats
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 224 ✭✭Conflats


    Is the Sheep Ireland programme not trying to change this problem with the breeds?
    IMO when we had sheep here we had suffolks and yes the feet were a b***h and in part led to the demise of the sheep here, i was younger at the time and hadnt gone through college where i did a placement with a lad who had 300 ewes used charollais on belclare cross ewes they all lambed in 2 weeks and i did the day shift, the ewes had a fill rate of 1.99 and at the end of lambing 20 lambs were lost in total, the maj lambed on there own with maybe 30 assists in total lambs out the door and works
    the farmer told me suffolks while great growth rates just too soft at the moment good for terminal sires but the charollais where just as good for him but he was a mid season flock


  • #43
    brownswiss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭brownswiss


    I would like to keep suffolk X in my ewes. I do not seem to be able to choose a suffolk to improve my sheep. I can buy or produce suitable CH or TX but I am not a good judge of Suffolk..... There are a lot of breeds now supposedly replacing the suffolk but if you research them they also have disadvantages...... Why are the suffolk lambs the only dirty lambs in my flock.. ?


  • #44
    Arrow in the Knee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Arrow in the Knee


    Give Suffolk sired lambs or even ewes a bolus for Copper.

    Animax and Mayo Healthcare supply them that I know of.

    The reason for them being dirty at the backend could be as a result a lack of copper in black faced sheep.

    Don't give Copper Bolus to Texels or any other breed cause you could give them too much of it as they don't need much copper in their blood.

    But then again I'm not a vet!


  • #45
    brownswiss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 765 ✭✭✭brownswiss


    Arrow in the Knee wrote: »
    Give Suffolk sired lambs or even ewes a bolus for Copper.

    Animax and Mayo Healthcare supply them that I know of.

    The reason for them being dirty at the backend could be as a result a lack of copper in black faced sheep.

    Don't give Copper Bolus to Texels or any other breed cause you could give them too much of it as they don't need much copper in their blood.

    But then again I'm not a vet!
    ...

    Thanks Arrow I will try the copper... I think Animax have good products.. not sure about Mayo ?

    The vet only knows what the farmer tells him so i will take your advice as Gospel... I might even chance the copper on the Texels... Thinking of getting blood tests done next week.. Have any of you done this with sheep ?


  • #46
    Arrow in the Knee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Arrow in the Knee


    No blood tests but faecal tests.

    I think Animax Cobalt are pricey. Don't know about the Copper boluses from Animax.


  • #47
    white metal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2 ✭white metal


    be very careful given copper to sheep and definetly not to texels


  • #48
    mark 6910
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭mark 6910


    If u crossbreed sheep they will have the characteristics of the 2 sheep like if u cross a Galway ewe with a Suffolk ram the lamb will have great wool and will be finished alot quicker. We have 776 ewes and I'd say 250 of them are Suffolk. We used to always keep Suffolk rams but we find the texel better. As a man once told me "black head black Arse"


  • #49
    mark 6910
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭mark 6910


    brownswiss wrote: »
    I would like to keep suffolk X in my ewes. I do not seem to be able to choose a suffolk to improve my sheep. I can buy or produce suitable CH or TX but I am not a good judge of Suffolk..... There are a lot of breeds now supposedly replacing the suffolk but if you research them they also have disadvantages...... Why are the suffolk lambs the only dirty lambs in my flock.. ?
    We noticed that aswell black head black Arse. If all your Suffolk are bad no offence you are doing a bad job buy in texels they are clean


  • #50
    AnFeirmeoir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 397 ✭✭AnFeirmeoir


    mark 6910 wrote: »
    If u crossbreed sheep they will have the characteristics of the 2 sheep like if u cross a Galway ewe with a Suffolk ram the lamb will have great wool and will be finished alot quicker. We have 776 ewes and I'd say 250 of them are Suffolk. We used to always keep Suffolk rams but we find the texel better. As a man once told me "black head black Arse"


    Or you'll get a big sheep that produces 1 lamb and is always scouring and lame 😉


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