Proof of 'God particle' found

Nothingbetter2d · 04-07-2012 12:32PM

Pedant wrote: »

Wait, just because someone believes in something means it exists...? You're looking at this the wrong way.

i think therefore i am

04-07-2012 12:35PM

GarIT wrote: »

This particle is a vital part of the creation of the universe. It could possibly be described as the creator of the universe.

If you ask a religious person what is god they will say the creator of the universe. Therefore you can conclude that if a god created the universe, this particle is god. Hence the name 'God particle'.

If you look at the dictionary definition of god and the scientific explanation of the Higg's boson particle you will see that this particle actually is god.

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1015905/Nathan-Fillion-reaction-gif_medium.gif

Shryke · 04-07-2012 12:35PM

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

Pedant wrote: »

No it doesn't. The Higgs particle only describes how mass came into being, not how energy came into being. This particle was not the reason for the creation of the universe, it was just a by-product after the first few millisecond after the big bang. The "God" particle is far from what one might perceive as "God" or a "Creator".

but God only exists in the minds of people who are made up of matter... without higgs particle matter would not exist thus God would not exist as there would have been no humans to believe in God

Or Batman. You dig?

ScumLord · 04-07-2012 12:38PM

General Relativity wrote: »

If I hit you, then it will hurt, because your nerve endings translate damage to your body as pain.

But what if I'm hard as nails and you hit like a wuss? Where's your so called science now?! :pac:

Nothingbetter2d · 04-07-2012 12:38PM

Shryke wrote: »

Or Batman. You dig?

Batman did exist... well at least in a few forms... actors, comics, images

woof im a dog · 04-07-2012 12:47PM

theres some problem with the higgs potential i think theyre gonna look for susy now

General Relativity · 04-07-2012 12:49PM

ScumLord wrote: »

But what if I'm hard as nails and you hit like a wuss? Where's your so called science now?! :pac:

We build a super-lazer and lay waste to our enemies... duh.

ThinkAboutIt · 04-07-2012 12:49PM

Getting a great laugh out of the atheists getting so hot and bothered LOL

Scioch · 04-07-2012 01:10PM

Any physicist or well informed boardies here to explain this to us ? Is the higgs boson responsible for attributing mass to other particles ? Does that mean it also attributes energy ? IS the higgs boson itself energy ? Whats the story ?

GarIT · 04-07-2012 01:10PM

Pedant wrote: »

No it doesn't. The Higgs particle only describes how mass came into being, not how energy came into being. This particle was not the reason for the creation of the universe, it was just a by-product after the first few millisecond after the big bang. The "God" particle is far from what one might perceive as "God" or a "Creator".

The god described in the bible only describes how mass came to being, not how energy came into being. Therefore this particle is the god described in the bible.

The Christian faith says that there is only one god and always is one god. There may be no Higg's Boson particle or there may be any number of Higg's boson particles at any time. Therefore there can be more or less than one 'god'. Therefore the christian faith is false as they believe there can only ever be one god. Similarly the Jewish faith is false.

Nothingbetter2d · 04-07-2012 01:21PM

LordSmeg wrote: »

Any physicist or well informed boardies here to explain this to us ? Is the higgs boson responsible for attributing mass to other particles ? Does that mean it also attributes energy ? IS the higgs boson itself energy ? Whats the story ?

the Higgs boson particle is a fundamental or elementary particle.

In particle physics, an elementary particle or fundamental particle is a particle not known to have substructure, thus it is not known to be made up of smaller particles. If an elementary particle truly has no substructure, then it is one of the basic building blocks of the universe from which all other particles are made. In the Standard Model, the elementary particles include the fundamental fermions (including quarks, leptons, and their antiparticles), and the fundamental bosons (including gauge bosons and the Higgs boson).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_particle

kevmy85 · 04-07-2012 01:25PM

LordSmeg wrote: »

Any physicist or well informed boardies here to explain this to us ? Is the higgs boson responsible for attributing mass to other particles ? Does that mean it also attributes energy ? IS the higgs boson itself energy ? Whats the story ?

The Higgs boson interacts with a thing called the Higgs field to impart mass.

The Higgs field exists everywhere and permeates the entire universe. When it meets atoms with the Higgs boson (or a number of them) the interaction between the boson and the field give mass.

Now that the atoms have mass they get affected by gravity causing them to clump together to build nebula, stars, elements, ketchup and tortoises.

DeadParrot · 04-07-2012 01:26PM

The levels of stupidity in this thread would make you question evolution to be fair.
Consider the fact that for 3.8 billion years, a period of time older than the Earth's mountains and rivers and oceans, everyone of your forbears on both sides has been attractive enough to find a mate, healthy enough to reproduce, and sufficiently blessed by fate and circumstances to live long enough to do so. Not one of your pertinent ancestors was squashed, devoured, drowned, starved, stranded, stuck fast, untimely wounded, or otherwise deflected from it's life quest of delivering a tiny charge of genetic material to the right partner at the right moment in order to perpetuate the only possible sequence of hereditary combinations that could result - eventually, astoundingly, and all to briefly-in some absolute ****ing idiots in this thread

Scioch · 04-07-2012 01:26PM

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

the Higgs boson particle is a fundamental or elementary particle.

In particle physics, an elementary particle or fundamental particle is a particle not known to have substructure, thus it is not known to be made up of smaller particles. If an elementary particle truly has no substructure, then it is one of the basic building blocks of the universe from which all other particles are made. In the Standard Model, the elementary particles include the fundamental fermions (including quarks, leptons, and their antiparticles), and the fundamental bosons (including gauge bosons and the Higgs boson).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_particle

But is the higgs boson responsible for mass and energy ?

The existence of the Higgs boson was predicted by the Standard Model to explain how spontaneous breaking of electroweak symmetry (the Higgs mechanism) takes place in nature, which in turn explains why other elementary particles have mass

Whats that mean ?

af_thefragile · 04-07-2012 01:30PM

GarIT wrote: »

The god described in the bible only describes how mass came to being, not how energy came into being. Therefore this particle is the god described in the bible.

The Christian faith says that there is only one god and always is one god. There may be no Higg's Boson particle or there may be any number of Higg's boson particles at any time. Therefore there can be more or less than one 'god'. Therefore the christian faith is false as they believe there can only ever be one god. Similarly the Jewish faith is false.

Totally depends on how you view God.

If you view God as some chemist/physicist sitting up there playing with his lab set and creating matter then yeah, the Higg's Boson particle may negate that God.

But if God is something that exists outside of our universe independent of time and space and all physicists discover is the intricate workings of how God created the universe to function, then it takes a bit more to disprove a God creating the universe. And as all of our science atleast for now is only limited to our universe and what takes place inside of it, then it can't reach out far enough to study a God or to say whether such a God exists or not.

Again the question of God is a philosophical debate rather than a scientific debate. Science needs to assume causality to work out the workings of the universe. Although causality seems to fall apart when it comes down to the elementary particles. In religious philosophy, in some schools (as if I remember it was Aristotle who first proposed this, or it could have been Plato) that you can't prove causality. You can't prove events in the universe have a cause and effect. We just observe events as they take place and assume causality to them. One could expand by saying certain events always lead to certain results (which is what experiemental science is based on) because God's actions are consistent hence we can assume a causes b and hence science works and functions. Again, purely a philosophical debate and nothing science can or can not do to prove or disprove it.

kevmy85 · 04-07-2012 01:36PM

LordSmeg wrote: »

But is the higgs boson responsible for mass and energy ?

Mass and energy are interrelated: E=Mc^2. Where E = energy, M = mass and c = speed of light.

I don't think it is possible to say it is responsible for energy.

LordSmeg wrote: »

Whats that mean ?

I believe other bosons can interact with the Higgs field to impart mass but that a Higgs boson is necessary for this to happen.

Scioch · 04-07-2012 01:37PM

DeadParrot wrote: »

The levels of stupidity in this thread would make you question evolution to be fair.
Consider the fact that for 3.8 billion years, a period of time older than the Earth's mountains and rivers and oceans, everyone of your forbears on both sides has been attractive enough to find a mate, healthy enough to reproduce, and sufficiently blessed by fate and circumstances to live long enough to do so. Not one of your pertinent ancestors was squashed, devoured, drowned, starved, stranded, stuck fast, untimely wounded, or otherwise deflected from it's life quest of delivering a tiny charge of genetic material to the right partner at the right moment in order to perpetuate the only possible sequence of hereditary combinations that could result - eventually, astoundingly, and all to briefly-in some absolute ****ing idiots in this thread

Shame on you misusing old Bill's words like that. Its an ode to the marvels of existence not a cheap insult. :mad:

entropi · 04-07-2012 01:42PM

The particle is dubbed the "god" particle, but will serve to prove that the universe began through interaction of energy, rather than creation by a supposed creator. Seems like a stupid name for it tbh. Should have just called it something else.

Sure no matter what happens, the preachers and followers of some religions will find some way to say that their "god" will be the one that made the particle exist :rolleyes:

Pushtrak · 04-07-2012 01:48PM

io9 did an article, Stop calling it the god Particle. There is too much in the article to copy it, worth checking out if interested though.

Nothingbetter2d · 04-07-2012 02:00PM

LordSmeg wrote: »

But is the higgs boson responsible for mass and energy ?

Whats that mean ?

its responsible for mass... but as we all learned in school energy cannot be created or destroyed... it just changes from one form to another. therefore energy always existed in some form or another

Pushtrak · 04-07-2012 02:02PM

From the article I linked in my previous:

2) It's not the only thing that can make mass.

The Higgs mechanism was developed to address a very specific problem. It was well-known at the time that assuming what are known as "local gauge symmetries" (PROTIP: work that phrase into conversation as often as possible) would give rise almost immediately to various mediator particles. For electromagnetism, we expect 1, the photon. For the weak force, we expect 3, the W^+, W^-, and Z^0.

But there's a problem — the theory also predicts that all of these mediators should be massless, and the W and Z particles are huge. The W particles are both about 86 times the mass of a proton, and the Z boson is about 97 times as massive as the proton.

Energy and mass are equivalent to one another. Remember, E=mc^2. But this reaction holds in reverse: m=E/c^2. Pour enough energy into a system and you create mass!

The basic idea (after glossing over LOTS of details of symmetry-breaking and the like) is that there is a Higgs field out there, and the interaction between the Higgs field and the W and Z fields creates energy, and we measure this as mass.

But this isn't just true of the Higgs, but of every energy of interaction. Just to give you an idea, you are made of protons and neutron, and your protons and neutrons are made of quarks. But the whole is much more than the sum of the parts. The total mass of quarks in a proton is only about 2% the mass of the proton, itself. The rest –- virtually all of your mass -– is made up of the interaction energies between the quarks.

Put another way, even if the mass of the quarks comes from the Higgs somehow — and even if the Higgs exists, we don't know exactly how it relates to other particles besides the W's and Z — almost none of your mass comes from the Higgs.

(Might as well source it again... http://io9.com/5923170/stop-calling-it-the-god-particle)

prinz · 04-07-2012 02:31PM

kevmy85 wrote: »

The Higgs field exists everywhere and permeates the entire universe. When it meets atoms with the Higgs boson (or a number of them) the interaction between the boson and the field give mass..

How strong with this one the Higgs field must be... doesn't have the same ring to it.

So I won't be able to remotely strangle you from across the room, but if I play my Higgs field and bosons just right, I may be able to conjure up a hand with mass around your throat. :pac:

I'm a bit torn on this one tbh. It's fascinating stuff and all that, and just goes to show what can be done with (a) the money (b) the right people involved and (c) the will to do it... and yet there's still so much war, starvation, disease etc the world over.

Nothingbetter2d · 04-07-2012 02:35PM

prinz wrote: »

How strong with this one the Higgs field must be... doesn't have the same ring to it.

So I won't be able to remotely strangle you from across the room, but if I play my Higgs field and bosons just right, I may be able to conjure up a hand with mass around your throat. :pac:

OR you could crush him with a planet you just made using your higgs field and bosons

IloveConverse · 04-07-2012 02:46PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28X9czEROPs

04-07-2012 02:48PM

What they found could be the god particle it could also be a piece of cheese but we have to show something for the billions spent.

GarIT · 04-07-2012 02:55PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

Totally depends on how you view God.

If you view God as some chemist/physicist sitting up there playing with his lab set and creating matter then yeah, the Higg's Boson particle may negate that God.

But if God is something that exists outside of our universe independent of time and space and all physicists discover is the intricate workings of how God created the universe to function, then it takes a bit more to disprove a God creating the universe. And as all of our science atleast for now is only limited to our universe and what takes place inside of it, then it can't reach out far enough to study a God or to say whether such a God exists or not.

Again the question of God is a philosophical debate rather than a scientific debate. Science needs to assume causality to work out the workings of the universe. Although causality seems to fall apart when it comes down to the elementary particles. In religious philosophy, in some schools (as if I remember it was Aristotle who first proposed this, or it could have been Plato) that you can't prove causality. You can't prove events in the universe have a cause and effect. We just observe events as they take place and assume causality to them. One could expand by saying certain events always lead to certain results (which is what experiemental science is based on) because God's actions are consistent hence we can assume a causes b and hence science works and functions. Again, purely a philosophical debate and nothing science can or can not do to prove or disprove it.

It proves 100% that god didn't create the earth though. But a god may have created the higg's boson particle with the intentions of it creating the earth.

MisterEpicurus · 04-07-2012 03:03PM

The Higgs boson walks into a church. The priest says "We don't allow Higgs boson in here. The Higgs boson says, "But without me how can you have mass?"

GarIT wrote: »

It proves 100% that god didn't create the earth though. But a god may have created the higg's boson particle with the intentions of it creating the earth.

I'm on your side of this debate but I fail to see the connection between how the discovery of this particle affects the theist position. Would you care to outline specifically why it worsens the theist position? Thanks!

sbsquarepants · 04-07-2012 03:15PM

GarIT wrote: »

It proves 100% that god didn't create the earth though. But a god may have created the higg's boson particle with the intentions of it creating the earth.

It proves absolutely no such thing.

And how are those 2 things you mentioned different anyway?

If i go to the time and bother to individually make bricks by hand, (as is the case for some high end bricks), or i build a machine to mass produce them, (as is the case with cheaper bricks). I'm still making the bricks!!

This particle doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with religion, It's just called the god particle - it's just a name. It could just as easily be called the jay-z particle, or the georgia salpa particle.

Smyth · 04-07-2012 03:26PM

See thread on the results from the LHC.

Skip to last page.

God debate. Only on boards. hurr.

Pedant · 04-07-2012 03:33PM

Imagine atoms without the Higgs-Boson, they'd be like invisible.

Proof of 'God particle' found

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