07 Passat Parking Brake Fault - Costs to repair?

DriveSkill · 25-06-2012 11:07AM #1

Hi,

I have an 2007 Passat which on Sat displayed a 'Parking brake failure' on the electronic handbrake - basically it seemed to disengage but then wouldnt work again and was beeping and flashing warning lights in the dash. After turning off the car and leaving it for approx 10 mins I started up again and no more warnings and brake working as expected again.

So I brought it to the garage this morning just to check it out and got a shock :eek:

Firstly the charge to diagnose is €100 - seems a little high (was expecting maybe €50-€60) considering as far as I know it basically involves plugging it into a diagnostic computer and seeing what the system reads back.

Main shock however came with the results - apparently parking brake ECU needs to be replaced and also the 2 caliper motors as they are all showing faults...total cost for repair - €1560 !! Obviously they are showing faults as I saw it on Sat but the idea that only solution is to replace them all seems a bit drastic.

I know there are lots of reported issues with these electronic handbrakes but wondering if anyone has any advice, I should say the button has already been replaced 2 years ago.

BTW prices are being quoted from a main VW dealer.

I'm tempted to just leave it be as it is working now - I know it may fail again at some point but seems a bit much to be spending based on a single occurrence of fault. After all if your PC crashes once you dont go out and buy a brand new one immediately

Any ideas on how much it would cost to get the ECU and motors replaced with an indy - according to VW the parts alone cost €1300 but unclear if I could get them elsewhere (online ?)

Thanks!

cadaliac · 25-06-2012 11:12AM

Try a dealer in the north for the same parts and compare.

FrontDoor · 25-06-2012 11:51AM

DriveSkill wrote: »

Hi,

Main shock however came with the results - apparently parking brake ECU needs to be replaced and also the 2 caliper motors as they are all showing faults...total cost for repair - €1560 !! Obviously they are showing faults as I saw it on Sat but the idea that only solution is to replace them all seems a bit drastic.

Why do these guys always suggest replacing everything as a solution?

I'd say a second opinion would be useful.

DriveSkill · 25-06-2012 12:04PM

FrontDoor wrote: »

Why do these guys always suggest replacing everything as a solution?

I'd say a second opinion would be useful.

I agree, seems a bit much to just to all out and replace everything!

Mind you if each opinion costs €100 to diagnose I cant really afford to get many of them!

andyseadog · 25-06-2012 12:11PM

what was ever wrong with the handbrake that you just pull up anyway? its not like pulling a lever to your left is dramatically more difficult than pushing a button to your right.

this was always going to happen with a system like this, and a car fitted with this electronic ****e would put me off buying it. we're going backwards instead of forwards, we had a simple, efficient system that worked perfectly and we had to go replace it.

sorry, my advice, get a second opinion from an independant garage.

mickdw · 25-06-2012 12:31PM

Thats a load of bullcrap from the dealer IMO. They simply found faults recorded at those components and are now recommending replacement of everything. If for example the control unit for the parking brake sent intermittant signals etc to the actual calipers, they would most likely show a fault then themselves - my point being that one actual fault may trigger loads of fault codes. Anyone can read codes, its knowing what to do next that is the skill and that is what you should be paying the diagnostic fee for, not just getting a list of codes and a repair suggestion of replace everything.
Go to another garage. There are known faults with these. The switch, the control unit I believe(I have not seen this myself) and the calipers can suffer from broken wires at the motor. There is NO circumstance IMO that a car that only suffered one failure on the parking brake and is now working fine could require 2 new calipers.

Bonus_Pack · 25-06-2012 12:36PM

FrontDoor wrote: »

Why do these guys always suggest replacing everything as a solution?

I'd say a second opinion would be useful.

Because they really have no idea what's wrong. "If we just replace everything, Jimmy, it might work"
Most "mechanics" these days actually know very little and are simply doing what a computer tells them to do.

Rather than mechanics, they are more accurately described as parts replacers.

Anyway, my sister had a passat with the electric handbrake. NIGHTMARE. In addition they engine gave untold bother too. The day she traded it for a Megane was a god send she says.

andyseadog · 25-06-2012 12:50PM

Bonus_Pack wrote: »

The day she traded it for a Megane was a god send she says.

you know things are bad when someone says that.

mickdw · 25-06-2012 01:12PM

andyseadog wrote: »

what was ever wrong with the handbrake that you just pull up anyway?.

These electronic ones have a few advantages.
They free up the centre console area allowing design improvements.
They are elecronically controlled so will actually adjust the squeezing force on the disc as the disc cools when parked to maintain an absolutely strong brake so prevents roll away.
They help bad drivers with taking off on hills as it automatically releases at the biting point.
Another feature that is seldom mentioned but I think is useful is that the parking parke on vw/ audi at least can be used as an emergency brake. So on the audis where the button is positioned around the gear lever, should the driver suffer heart attack or something at the wheel, a passenger pulling the electronic brake lever for a number of seconds activates emergency braking. This brake force is applied to all 4 wheels through the hydraulic system and not through the parking brake system as that would only act on the rear wheels. Trying to stop a car with a traditional handbrake when at speed would be useless.

Bonus_Pack · 25-06-2012 01:17PM

what was ever wrong with the handbrake that you just pull up anyway?.

Nothing. That's why they changed it. Shure with a normal handbrake, they could squeeze you for money because it never gave trouble.

The points raised mickdw are grasping at straws tbh. The normal handbrake i have never "got in my way" so to speak.
I, and most for that matter, would much prefer a simple reliable system that doesn't give trouble rahter than a fancy gimmicky button that will break you heart and your wallet. Nuff said.

andyseadog · 25-06-2012 01:23PM

They are elecronically controlled so will actually adjust the squeezing force on the disc as the disc cools when parked to maintain an absolutely strong brake so prevents roll away.

or just handbrake up and park it in gear like to good old days?

They help bad drivers with taking off on hills as it automatically releases at the biting point.

cant do a conventional hill start, cant pass the test, shouldn't be on the road.

Another feature that is seldom mentioned but I think is useful is that the parking parke on vw/ audi at least can be used as an emergency brake. So on the audis where the button is positioned around the gear level, should the driver suffer heart attack or something at the wheel, a passenger pulling the electronic brake lever for a number of seconds activates emergency braking. This brake force is applied to all 4 wheels through the hydraulic system and not through the parking brake system as that would only act on the rear wheels. Trying to stop a car with a traditional handbrake when at speed would be useless.

i take this as a fiar point, but its a costly addition.

as for taking up space on the center console as a reason, i mean ffs what are they going to put in its place only another cubby space or a cup holder or something.

mickdw · 25-06-2012 01:26PM

Bonus_Pack wrote: »

The points raised mickdw are grasping at straws tbh. The normal handbrake i have never "got in my way" so to speak.

You may say that, but I wouldnt go back now tbh. Ive had an audi with electric brake for over 4 years now. It has not had any issues while many other areas of the car have had issues. Another advantage is that they generally dont suffer from imbalance from side to side like some of the traditional systems. Alot of traditional handbrakes were also woeful for needing adjustment although, audi and many others have run with a self adjusting setup for many years.

mickdw · 25-06-2012 01:33PM

andyseadog wrote: »

or just handbrake up and park it in gear like to good old days?

Still do that tbh. It has to be said it is good driving practice to do this but there are very many that dont.

andyseadog wrote: »

cant do a conventional hill start, cant pass the test, shouldn't be on the road.

I dont know, Ive seen many drivers who cannot take off on a hill and they were on the road. Shouldnt be, but there were!

andyseadog wrote: »

i take this as a fiar point, but its a costly addition.

How is it costly?

andyseadog wrote: »

as for taking up space on the center console as a reason, i mean ffs what are they going to put in its place only another cubby space or a cup holder or something.

We will see a major design change in the next few years imo. With that lever out of there and with differing gear change options available, the whole of the centre area of the car has been freed up. Sure, there are not making great use of this for now but its sure coming.

andyseadog · 25-06-2012 02:04PM

mickdw wrote: »

How is it costly?

€1500 to repiar a faulty system. i only paid a little more for my current daily driver :pac:

mickdw · 25-06-2012 02:19PM

andyseadog wrote: »

€1500 to repiar a faulty system. i only paid a little more for my current daily driver :pac:

A faulty diagnosis more like. Sure you could go into a garage with a faulty spark plug in any basic car and the computer might tell them misfire on cylinder - they could say you need a new engine. Thats about as bad as this diagnosis seems to me so its hard to condemn the system just because of poor diagnosis or fraudulent repair quotes.

andyseadog · 25-06-2012 02:27PM

mickdw wrote: »

A faulty diagnosis more like. Sure you could go into a garage with a faulty spark plug in any basic car and the computer might tell them misfire on cylinder - they could say you need a new engine. Thats about as bad as this diagnosis seems to me so its hard to condemn the system just because of poor diagnosis or fraudulent repair quotes.

i totally agree

just putting abit of perspective on it, some people don't have the ability to question bills, fortunately this guy is.

DriveSkill · 25-06-2012 02:40PM

Well I've picked the car up again, paid my €100 for the 'diagnostics' and had a discussion with the service guy. He went to great trouble to justify the €100 saying it was 1.75 hours work but he was only charging for 1.5hrs !

I was making a lot of the same points people made here in that as a result of the 'diagnostics' I'm no wiser than I was on Sat - I knew at that stage that there was a fault in the system and all they can tell me now is there is a fault in all 3 parts of the system! I asked was it not unusual for 2 caliper motors to fail at exactly the same time and all I got was that is what the fault is saying - there doesnt seem to be any level of granularity as to what the fault might actually be or what the real root cause was.

The fact that its all working fine now seems to suggest the faults recorded are all related to that one incident but could be anything, maybe there was glitch, it was wet so maybe water get in somewhere - I dont know but I dont think the calipers are really broken or damaged. I think its like saying if your PC crashed once and you check the logs you find a fault, does that mean you go buy a whole new PC!

End result is he is going to ask for a goodwill gesture from VW but unlikely to succeed I think as car is 5 years old, only thing in its favour is it has a full VW Service history which maycount for something.

So going to wait and see what comes back from VW and then decide.

mickdw · 25-06-2012 03:49PM

DriveSkill wrote: »

End result is he is going to ask for a goodwill gesture from VW but unlikely to succeed I think as car is 5 years old, only thing in its favour is it has a full VW Service history which maycount for something.

So going to wait and see what comes back from VW and then decide.

If he goes to vw with that kind of a diagnosis, there would be questions asked I feel. Then again, you wont know what he says to vw. Its likely he wouldnt go to them at all. You can always ring the vw warranty people in dublin, I think I have the number somewhere - to keep the garage honest.
Even if he comes back to you offering 75% off that bill due to a goodwill offering, I wouldnt take it without a good second opinion.

ShadowHearth · 25-06-2012 04:11PM

i just wonder how much these passats will be worth in next 2-3 years...

the early ones of this model already going for feck all. With bill likes this passats will be only good for breaking.

i know someone will say " oh, you see on forums only bad points ", but fecking hell, simple stuff like this breaks and costs stupid amount of money. Just because its complicated mechanism its not better! i wont even mention the whole injector feck up etc.

rugbyman · 25-06-2012 04:20PM

my nephew knows quite a lot about these things and has saved people thousands. pm with contact details sent

regards,Rugbyman

mickdw · 25-06-2012 04:58PM

ShadowHearth wrote: »

i just wonder how much these passats will be worth in next 2-3 years...

the early ones of this model already going for feck all. With bill likes this passats will be only good for breaking.

i know someone will say " oh, you see on forums only bad points ", but fecking hell, simple stuff like this breaks and costs stupid amount of money. Just because its complicated mechanism its not better! i wont even mention the whole injector feck up etc.

They are actually holding up well to fairly high mileages so I dont agree at all on the theory that they will only be fit for breaking. Even your typical old man mechanic knows his way around these at this stage, and can often repair a broken wire in the calipers or whatever.
Worst repair on the parking brake is probably a new caliper and they can be had used on ebay for about €70 so no big dramas really. Parking prake switch is a simple repair too.
The injectors and engin wear issues were the major nightmare on these but vw are looking after the injectors a least. Also steering colum defect resulted in a major bill early on but now, the faulty part on the column can be changed so that is not a major issue either now.

galwaytt · 25-06-2012 05:04PM

mickdw wrote: »

These electronic ones have a few advantages.
They free up the centre console area allowing design improvements.
They are elecronically controlled so will actually adjust the squeezing force on the disc as the disc cools when parked to maintain an absolutely strong brake so prevents roll away.
They help bad drivers with taking off on hills as it automatically releases at the biting point.
Another feature that is seldom mentioned but I think is useful is that the parking parke on vw/ audi at least can be used as an emergency brake. So on the audis where the button is positioned around the gear lever, should the driver suffer heart attack or something at the wheel, a passenger pulling the electronic brake lever for a number of seconds activates emergency braking. This brake force is applied to all 4 wheels through the hydraulic system and not through the parking brake system as that would only act on the rear wheels. Trying to stop a car with a traditional handbrake when at speed would be useless.

I understand the design thing - but I still think that's a sh!t reason: look at an A6 console, or a 5008 - the fuggin' consoles just got enormous. I blame cans of coke...........

Hillstart is a good idea, just remember: you can't do your driving test in a car that has it........

As for the heart-attack - is that because of the repair quote ??

No, seriously, never knew that. Only a couple of snags as I see it..........the handbrake button is on the farside of the driver, from the passenger.......no ? Will it be like the little air-hostess routine, where you'll have to tell all impending travellers what to do in the event of an emergency......?....I mean, I was only going to the shop go get a loaf of bread...

mickdw · 25-06-2012 05:31PM

galwaytt wrote: »

As for the heart-attack - is that because of the repair quote ?? No, seriously, never knew that. Only a couple of snags as I see it..........the handbrake button is on the farside of the driver, from the passenger.......no ? Will it be like the little air-hostess routine, where you'll have to tell all impending travellers what to do in the event of an emergency......?....I mean, I was only going to the shop go get a loaf of bread...

Yes in the passat it is, but I mentioned that in audis its at the gear lever on the centre console in many models.

DriveSkill · 25-06-2012 05:39PM

galwaytt wrote: »

Hillstart is a good idea, just remember: you can't do your driving test in a car that has it........

Just to clarify if by "Hillstart" you mean the auto-release of the handbrake once you get to the biting point then there is no issue doing your test with it - perfectly acceptable! Only requirement is that it must be a 'standard' feature of the car and not an after-market add-on.

_Kaiser_ · 25-06-2012 06:05PM

mickdw wrote: »

They are actually holding up well to fairly high mileages so I dont agree at all on the theory that they will only be fit for breaking.

Indeed, my 2.0 TDI 2006 model has 212000 km on the clock and still going strong... aside from an impending injector fault (which was covered under the recent recall) and a DMF failure (well it was on the way out as opposed to actually failed and common to any modern diesel), it's never given me any trouble really.

Depends how it's been looked after really - mine is serviced every 3/4 months or so by a dealer so that likely helps.

shanec1928 · 25-06-2012 06:05PM

galwaytt wrote: »

Hillstart is a good idea, just remember: you can't do your driving test in a car that has it........

yes you can do your test in it;)

deadlast · 25-06-2012 06:14PM

DriveSkill wrote: »

Well I've picked the car up again, paid my €100 for the 'diagnostics' and had a discussion with the service guy. He went to great trouble to justify the €100 saying it was 1.75 hours work but he was only charging for 1.5hrs !

I was making a lot of the same points people made here in that as a result of the 'diagnostics' I'm no wiser than I was on Sat - I knew at that stage that there was a fault in the system and all they can tell me now is there is a fault in all 3 parts of the system! I asked was it not unusual for 2 caliper motors to fail at exactly the same time and all I got was that is what the fault is saying - there doesnt seem to be any level of granularity as to what the fault might actually be or what the real root cause was.

The fact that its all working fine now seems to suggest the faults recorded are all related to that one incident but could be anything, maybe there was glitch, it was wet so maybe water get in somewhere - I dont know but I dont think the calipers are really broken or damaged. I think its like saying if your PC crashed once and you check the logs you find a fault, does that mean you go buy a whole new PC!

End result is he is going to ask for a goodwill gesture from VW but unlikely to succeed I think as car is 5 years old, only thing in its favour is it has a full VW Service history which maycount for something.

So going to wait and see what comes back from VW and then decide.

On phone so quick reply. It's a common fault that water gets into motor on caliper and causes it to fail. I got mine fixed for price of a second hand caliper(just motor needed from it) and labour.€100. Listen at each rear wheel, I could hear which caliper was not engaging.

And stay away from VW unless you're still under warranty, get a good independent to sort it!

Edit:- I didnt fully read all the posts but it's very common for switch to fail also, €15 part and replace yourself...

barneygumble99 · 26-06-2012 10:24AM

mickdw wrote: »

These electronic ones have a few advantages.
They free up the centre console area allowing design improvements.
They are elecronically controlled so will actually adjust the squeezing force on the disc as the disc cools when parked to maintain an absolutely strong brake so prevents roll away.
They help bad drivers with taking off on hills as it automatically releases at the biting point.
Another feature that is seldom mentioned but I think is useful is that the parking parke on vw/ audi at least can be used as an emergency brake. So on the audis where the button is positioned around the gear lever, should the driver suffer heart attack or something at the wheel, a passenger pulling the electronic brake lever for a number of seconds activates emergency braking. This brake force is applied to all 4 wheels through the hydraulic system and not through the parking brake system as that would only act on the rear wheels. Trying to stop a car with a traditional handbrake when at speed would be useless.

passats are a disaster that way, you need to have the clutch engaged obviously, you need to have the brake engaged to release that handbrake switch and you need to have your foot on the accelerator. not the easiest thing to do for a learner driver.

mickdw · 26-06-2012 11:05AM

No. You are completely wrong. The parking brake has an auto release function. That's the whole point of it. You just let the clutch up and drive away. The car let's the brake off just when clutch reaches biting point.
You are not the first I've heard say this. Mostly people who don't wear their seat belt as without the seat belt, the auto release is disabled.

DriveSkill · 26-06-2012 11:08AM

barneygumble99 wrote: »

passats are a disaster that way, you need to have the clutch engaged obviously, you need to have the brake engaged to release that handbrake switch and you need to have your foot on the accelerator. not the easiest thing to do for a learner driver.

Think you are missing the point - the handbrake disengages automatically once you get the clutch to the biting point and are on the accelerator. You only need to engage the brake pedal if you want to manually disengage the handbrake using the switch.

fullstop · 26-06-2012 12:39PM

DriveSkill wrote: »

Hi,

I have an 2007 Passat which on Sat displayed a 'Parking brake failure' on the electronic handbrake - basically it seemed to disengage but then wouldnt work again and was beeping and flashing warning lights in the dash. After turning off the car and leaving it for approx 10 mins I started up again and no more warnings and brake working as expected again.

So I brought it to the garage this morning just to check it out and got a shock :eek:

Firstly the charge to diagnose is €100 - seems a little high (was expecting maybe €50-€60) considering as far as I know it basically involves plugging it into a diagnostic computer and seeing what the system reads back.

Main shock however came with the results - apparently parking brake ECU needs to be replaced and also the 2 caliper motors as they are all showing faults...total cost for repair - €1560 !! Obviously they are showing faults as I saw it on Sat but the idea that only solution is to replace them all seems a bit drastic.

I know there are lots of reported issues with these electronic handbrakes but wondering if anyone has any advice, I should say the button has already been replaced 2 years ago.

BTW prices are being quoted from a main VW dealer.

I'm tempted to just leave it be as it is working now - I know it may fail again at some point but seems a bit much to be spending based on a single occurrence of fault. After all if your PC crashes once you dont go out and buy a brand new one immediately

Any ideas on how much it would cost to get the ECU and motors replaced with an indy - according to VW the parts alone cost €1300 but unclear if I could get them elsewhere (online ?)

Thanks!

I got my handbrake motor replaced for just over €700 in a main dealer. They said that often the housing gets damaged as well and it would have cost €1200 if that needed replacing too but I got away without that.

07 Passat Parking Brake Fault - Costs to repair?

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