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Irishman (19) tortured and sentenced to death in 1973, now declared innocent.

24

Comments

  • #32
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Onixx wrote: »
    Ah I get you now - people who condemn torture by British soldiers to get a confession are ra-heads. In Eoghan Harris wack-job land.

    And people who think the IRA are 'innocent irishmen' are deluded.


  • #33
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    train.jpg


  • #34
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    And people who think the IRA are 'innocent irishmen' are deluded.

    You do know that this thread is about a man who was tortured into a confession?


  • #35
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    And people who think the IRA are 'innocent irishmen' are deluded.
    Yes they sure are deluded but this man was found innocent and yet you brought up whataboutery immediately. Plus I said nothing of the sort yet you suggested I'd be at home on a provo forum?


  • #36
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    juan.kerr, if you want to derail a thread you should really do it in a less obvious manner


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  • #37
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Nodin wrote: »
    You do know that this thread is about a man who was tortured into a confession?

    I do, but the original poster hijacked / derailed the thread himself by including this little gem:
    How many more such horror cases have still to be made public?

    If he wanted to focus on the single case he would have left out that incendiary comment.

    Since he chose to include it he clearly didn't want to focus on that single case so left it open to discuss atrocities committed by all parties.


  • #38
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I do, but the original poster hijacked / derailed the thread himself by including this little gem:



    If he wanted to focus on the single case he would have left out that incendiary comment.

    Since he chose to include it he clearly didn't want to focus on that single case so left it open to discuss atrocities committed by all parties.

    It is well known what went on during this period and indeed that such practices facilitated recruitment into the IRA. It is not an incendiary comment at all in that light. There are hundreds if not thousands of similar cases


  • #39
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    No idea, I have no interest in it so haven't gone looking but I'm sure it's out there, somewhere. Maybe not on this site...

    Well then why not feck off and act the sack elsewhere?.

    You're purposely derailing a perfectly good thread.


  • #40
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Alana Narrow Dolt wrote: »
    Well then why not feck off and act the sack elsewhere?.

    You're purposely derailing a perfectly good thread.

    So you don't think the case of Jean McConville is in any way similar? Torture and murder don't compare to torture and imprisonment?

    Take those blinkers off.


  • #41
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I do, but the original poster hijacked / derailed the thread himself by including this little gem:

    If he wanted to focus on the single case he would have left out that incendiary comment.

    Since he chose to include it he clearly didn't want to focus on that single case so left it open to discuss atrocities committed by all parties.

    Really?

    What was behind this then?
    And people who think the IRA are 'innocent irishmen' are deluded.


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  • #42
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    So you don't think the case of Jean McConville is in any way similar? Torture and murder don't compare to torture and imprisonment?

    Take those blinkers off.

    In your hast you missed this from my earlier post in this thread;
    All sides in the conflict have acknowledged their part in wrong doings, and this case only hardens my resolve that we should take a long hard look at a Truth and Reconciliation Commission.


  • #43
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Nodin wrote: »
    Really?

    What was behind this then?

    Check what it was in response to - thaty might give you as clue.


  • #44
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Alana Narrow Dolt wrote: »
    In your hast you missed this from my earlier post in this thread;

    I didn't.


  • #45
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I didn't.

    Then I won't waste my time with you any further and report you for what you are and hope other's do the same.


  • #46
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Check what it was in response to - thaty might give you as clue.

    It doesn't. Is there a problem explaining it or the reasoning behind it?


  • #47
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    train.jpg

    Is that the Dublin to Belfast line.


  • #48
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    So you don't think the case of Jean McConville is in any way similar? Torture and murder don't compare to torture and imprisonment?

    Take those blinkers off.
    Nobody said anything about the Jean McC atrocity not being as bad! Discussing this particular case isn't a non acknowledgment of other appalling stuff that went on...

    What you're doing is akin to marching into a thread about Jean McConville and saying "What about what loyalists did?"


  • #49
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    So how is bringing that case up going off topic?


  • #50
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    stovelid wrote: »
    Is that the Dublin to Belfast line.

    No cavan-leitrim, and was one of the better trains


  • #51
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Nodin wrote: »
    It doesn't. Is there a problem explaining it or the reasoning behind it?

    I refer you to the following quote:
    Ah I get you now - people who condemn torture by British soldiers to get a confession are ra-heads. In Eoghan Harris wack-job land.

    Hardly constructive.


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  • #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,093 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    So how is bringing that case up going off topic?

    Because it adds nothing except "look what others did, that surely makes this case less bad" which is nonsense from either side.

    The history of the troubles is far from written, both (several actually) sides committed horrendous acts but there is power sharing and peace now.


  • #53
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I refer you to the following quote:
    Hardly constructive.

    Even if I were to agree with you on that point, it still doesn't explain
    And people who think the IRA are 'innocent irishmen' are deluded

    Nobody has stated in this thread that the RA were "innocent". The thread is about an innocent man who was tortured. What, precisely, were you getting at?


  • #54
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Hardly constructive.
    But it was what you were essentially saying - and a response in kind.


  • #55
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Nodin wrote: »
    Even if I were to agree with you on that point, it still doesn't explain



    Nobody has stated in this thread that the RA were "innocent". The thread is about an innocent man who was tortured. What, precisely, were you getting at?

    I think it is pretty clear.

    I take extreme offence to the line in the original post that I have quoted numerous times at this stage.


  • #56
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Doubt he's the only one unfortunately.

    Delighted that his name was cleared although it must be scant recompense for what he went through.


  • #57
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Indeed, can I assume that we agree both sides committed horrors that haven't been made public? How many other Jean McConvilles are we not aware of?
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I find it hard to believer we know everything. For example IRA involvement in drug dealing & importation.

    I'd be surprised if anyone on the island of Ireland thought the British Army was 'squeaky clean'. Perhaps you have heard about a little known incident generally referred to as 'Bloody Sunday'?
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Not sure the point you are making.

    The IRA would presumably claim that they were disciplined and that their members actions were approved and controlled by the IRA 'army council'.

    Or are we saying that the IRA had no control over their 'active duty' members so can't be held responsible for their actions?
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    That you need the British government to 'acknowledge' an incident like this says it all.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    That's a fair point. Perhaps if the OP had left out the line below then the thread may have developed differently:

    As for:

    Whose arse licking? Better that we stick a bunch of murdering thugs up on a pedestal?
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Are you a child? Difficult to believe otherwise when you ask 'whose side are you on'. Cowboys or Indians is it?

    Grow up a bit first before responding to this please.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Not sure where you think you are, but you aren't on the Sinn Fein IRA forum.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I've quite clearly answered that in an earlier post.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    No idea, I have no interest in it so haven't gone looking but I'm sure it's out there, somewhere. Maybe not on this site...
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    And people who think the IRA are 'innocent irishmen' are deluded.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I do, but the original poster hijacked / derailed the thread himself by including this little gem:

    If he wanted to focus on the single case he would have left out that incendiary comment.

    Since he chose to include it he clearly didn't want to focus on that single case so left it open to discuss atrocities committed by all parties.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    So you don't think the case of Jean McConville is in any way similar? Torture and murder don't compare to torture and imprisonment?

    Take those blinkers off.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    Check what it was in response to - thaty might give you as clue.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I didn't.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    So how is bringing that case up going off topic?
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I refer you to the following quote:

    Hardly constructive.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I think it is pretty clear.

    I take extreme offence to the line in the original post that I have quoted numerous times at this stage.

    WTF is your problem?


  • #58
    juan.kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭juan.kerr


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    WTF is your problem?

    People like you who think that no one is entitled to hold a different opinion than youself.


  • #59
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I think it is pretty clear..

    I think it implies the innocent man tortured was supposed to be an IRA member.
    juan.kerr wrote: »
    I take extreme offence to the line in the original post that I have quoted numerous times at this stage.

    I think you just want to take a few pot shots at republicans and seized on the first thing that caught your eye. Certainly the statement I've asked you questions on has nothing to do with it as far as I can see.


  • #60
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    People like you who think that no one is entitled to hold a different opinion than youself.

    Extreme double think is in effect.....


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  • #61
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    juan.kerr wrote: »
    People like you who think that no one is entitled to hold a different opinion than youself.
    Different opinion is not the issue here at all. Trivialising the man's treatment at the hands of state officials in order to say that the IRA was as bad is.


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