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What if Assad is telling the truth?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    Try and defend this the pro-Assad brigade.http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0612/us-...-massacre.html

    I'm not going to waste my time refuting delusions any longer aside from this one time- you are a special case, because you have completely ignored 10 pages of debate. Nobody here is pro-Assad. I am not pro-Assad. cyberhog is not pro-Assad. wes and Suff are not pro-Assad. I presume we are the "brigade" you are talking about?

    A decade ago, the West was filled with very ignorant people such as yourself. These are people who said: "You are either with us or against us" when it came to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. They condemned those who questioned their logic and "evidence" of WMDs or Taliban sympathy for Al-Qaeda as "apologists", "Saddam sympathisers", "unpatriotic" etc. etc. Now look at what a mess the last ten years has been, because nobody was able to stand up without being shot down. I'm really sick and tired of hearing the McCarthy-esque rhetoric being trumpeted here.

    "I'm not pro-Assad!"
    "But you are!"
    "I'm not!"
    "But you aren't on our side, so what are you?"
    "I'm not pro-Assad!"
    "You silly pro-Assad morons...."
    "-_-"

    I don't want Assad to stay. I want him to go. Whether or not that is the right course of action for Syria, only history will tell. But I don't want terrorists and/or the army to fill in the vacuum left by him.
    its just the Russians doing what they always do.

    And that is?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    Truely disgusting actions by residents of a pro Assad town trying to block UN monitors.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9327071/Syria-UN-monitors-blocked-from-reaching-Al-Haffe.html

    What we are seeing in Syria is as bad as it was in Bosnia when the Bosnian-Serbs committed atrocities against the Muslims.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Eggy Baby! wrote: »
    I'm not going to waste my time refuting delusions any longer aside from this one time- you are a special case, because you have completely ignored 10 pages of debate. Nobody here is pro-Assad. I am not pro-Assad. cyberhog is not pro-Assad. wes and Suff are not pro-Assad. I presume we are the "brigade" you are talking about?

    I don't want Assad to stay. I want him to go. Whether or not that is the right course of action for Syria, only history will tell. But I don't want terrorists and/or the army to fill in the vacuum left by him.

    Your opinion is on the wrong side of the UN hence you are in the wrong on this one. Assad has been blamed by the UN for killing over a thousand kids as well as torturing many more.

    All this criticism of anyone who dares raise the prospect that Assad is guilty of horrendous crimes is painted by posters here as pro-West with rebuttals quoting that beacon of democracy Russia.

    Make up your mind, what you said earlier is different to what you say now. Which is it?
    you wrote:
    The Russians want Assad to stay but to enact broad reforms. IMO, that would be the best course of action.

    He cannot stay, he is a war criminal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    All this criticism of anyone who dares raise the prospect that Assad is guilty of horrendous crimes is painted by posters here as pro-West with rebuttals quoting that beacon of democracy Russia.

    Actually its the other way around.. :rolleyes:
    Your opinion is on the wrong side of the UN hence you are in the wrong on this one. Assad has been blamed by the UN for killing over a thousand kids as well as torturing many more.

    The UN is an absolute farce.
    Make up your mind, what you said earlier is different to what you say now. Which is it?

    A load of crap. My opinion has been consistent throughout. I'm not pro-Assad as you guys so delusionally maintain and this would be fairly obvious if you took the time to read the bloody thread.

    Evidently nothing I say manages to infiltrate your brains, or else you are simply ignoring it to suit your own agendas, by branding me as some sort of Assad apologist.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Eggy Baby! wrote: »
    The UN is an absolute farce.

    The UN disagrees with you so its a farce, nice.
    Eggy Baby! wrote: »
    A load of crap. My opinion has been consistent throughout. I'm not pro-Assad as you guys so delusionally maintain and this would be fairly obvious if you took the time to read the bloody thread.

    Evidently nothing I say manages to infiltrate your brains, or else you are simply ignoring it to suit your own agendas, by branding me as some sort of Assad apologist.

    You wanted Assad to stay with reforms in post #50 and yet said he must go in post #152 and will not give a definitive answer now. Thats serious inconsistency on your part of the political situation there.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    You wanted Assad to stay with reforms in post #50 and yet said he must go in post #152 and will not give a definitive answer now. Thats serious inconsistency on your part of the political situation there.
    Nope. I said the best solution as apparent would be for Assad to stay but enact broad reforms (that is, absolutely dismantle the apparatuses of dictatorship and repression, enact a proper ceasefire and call elections) if he called elections, and they were free and fair, he would certainly be voted out. Therefore, he is gone.
    Then I said I wanted Assad to go, and he will, if he calls actual elections, as I said before!

    What do you mean I won't give a definitive answer now? I've made my stance quite clear.
    The UN disagrees with you so its a farce, nice.
    Just like the way I disagree with you so I'm pro-Assad, nice.

    The UN is not a farce because it disagrees with me, it is a farce because it is:
    A; Emasculated by the USA going around doing its own thing independent of international laws and norms,

    B; Emasculated by the Security Council in which 1 country can overturn a hundred (all the members are guilty of this btw),

    C; Chasing pipe dreams in Syria as millions die in the Congo while the peacekeeper skeleton crew there attempts to keep the peace,

    D; It is overshadowed by NATO in activeness (I don't agree with NATO as it is a proxy for America),

    E; Allows itself to be spied upon without condemning the perpetrators (i.e the USA),

    F; Failed Iraq, the Congo, Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, many South American countries from being raped and intervened in by the USA, the list goes on,

    G; It has failed to combat piracy such as in Somalia, instead individual countries are sending their own stuff,

    H; It has failed to bring mediation in dozens of territorial disputes, such as in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, where France had to broker a ceasefire, or in Kurdistan, or Northern Ireland,

    I; People say the UN has brought about greater world peace but it is in fact more due to economic interdependency than their presence,

    J; Is largely a bureaucracy-choked morass which takes weeks to condemn a country for invading another,

    K; Will be gone in a few decades due to the world splitting up into security organisations of their own i.e NATO, the SCO etc.

    L; Failed the post-Soviet Union countries in the 90's BIG TIME as most collapsed into ethnic/civil wars, corruption, dictatorship and doom

    Note that the list is not exhaustive- there is much more failure!

    tl;dr? The UN is a farce due to empirical evidence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭Mervyn Crawford


    http://wsws.org/articles/2012/jun2012/syri-j13.shtml

    The 'news' reporting on the Syrian intervention by American and European Imperialism smells of nothing other than Orwellian Newspeak.

    A rare comment in Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung revealing a part of the true story.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭Suff


    This thread is just as divided as the Syrian people are...

    Again, I am only speaking for the people I know; a good number are against the regime and want to see a change without Blood. An equal number are worried that this will only spill Blood and our future is deemed to be ruled by chaos. Very few people I know are what you can call 'hardcore rebels' that have this simple idea of "All we want is for them to go, anything is better than them!" I can assure you that they're losing support within the Syrian society.

    As a Syrian, I am completely ashamed by the atrocious actions that have been carried out by some of my fellow Syrians. I cannot believe how stupid some of them are, sighting hate and dragging the country into a vicious sectarian war.

    If that is the change that they want, I don't want any part of it and I will oppose and fight it.

    I have said this time and time again, Yes; we have issues with the Ba'ath party, Yes, we have suffered under their 'reign' BUT ripping the country apart by applying a similar ideology to that used by the Bush administration 10 years ago - "If you're not with us, you're against us!" - to overthrow the current government or resolve the conflict just plain stupid and will not work.

    Have we forgot about America's soap opera on Iraq's WMD? can't anyone see similar patterns working here??

    'Assad is a blood thirsty lunatic, murderer and war criminal...and so on' We didn't hear such words until 8 months ago. First of all, Bashar is not as bad as the media is trying to portray him to be, and still to this day he has big support of many Syrians, regardless of their sect. With a population of 24 million, how many have risen against the government? A million? three million?
    Why haven't the remaining 21 million made their voice heard? the lack of freedom of speech? or is it Fear? ...Political fear is long dead in Syria; young people at cafes, taxi drivers and grocery shop owners have voiced their political (for & against) opinions publicly. It's your actions that is likely to get you killed or kidnaped.

    But what about Syria during Bashar's 11 years in power?

    Well, ...Syria was fine! Yes... I am confidently stating this:

    Syria was fine and going very well, why deny it? We're free and don't have a national debt, our GDP growth was healthy with promising EU treaties and free trade relationships. Our infrastructure was developing rapidly and we had unbelievable security. What we lacked was a democratic government true, but our political scene was heading toward it at a healthy pace. Bashar had publicly acknowledge the mistakes of the last government (his father's Gov) and promised to correct them, and this he did by introducing reforms, and many legislations to replace the old 'Ba'ath laws that promised a better political future for the country. If you think that you can bestow, apply democracy with a click of a button or by removing a government you're clearly naive.

    However, anyone who have been interested or have followed the region's political history would know that Syria's growing relationship with Iran, Russia and China didn't sit well with America and its allies. This resulted in a Media war on Syria back in 2001; 9/11 - Iraq's WMD (2003), Lebanon (2005 - 2006) and the current campaign of 2011 -2012.

    A military intervention like the one applied on Iraq is out of the question, and what a better way to get the job done without getting your hands dirty? - Get them to fight each other!

    Syrian Rebels are Foreign-backed Terrorists:
    Link 1

    Disagreements Among Syrian Rebels Over Foreign Arms:
    Link 2

    Now, we have these armed forces and militias - FSA (which I don't acknowledge to be a Syrian Army) fighting the National Syrian Army. And, of course the regime's answer is to fight back, they don't want to lose their power over Syria and surely we'll see them fight till the end. My fears that it'll be the end of Syria and not the regime.

    To summarise; Do I want Assad to go? ...Yes, but not like this.

    I am not usually a fan of conspiracy theories, but they make more sense than what we have seen and heard out of the mainstream media. The following link does give an 'interesting' analogy to the current situation in Syria. Link 3


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Suff wrote: »
    A military intervention like the one applied on Iraq is out of the question, and what a better way to get the job done without getting your hands dirty? - Get them to fight each other!
    Oh ffs, Russia/USSR has been perfectly happy to support the Syrian overt and covert foreign policies since 1948. Syria has always been the centre of a cold war theatre in the Middle East and has been extremely active along with Hizbullah and Iran in operations theree. Who backs them? Everyone is backed. Each and every country or faction involved.

    To keep dropping Bush et al into the conversation doesn't qualify any equivalence. The only way Assad's regime is going anywhere is unfortunately via bloodshed and I don't see this current predicament lessening at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭Suff


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Syria has always been the centre of a cold war theatre in the Middle East and has been extremely active along with Hizbullah and Iran in operations theree. Who backs them? Everyone is backed. Each and every country or faction involved.

    I agree, but to simply state the current situation as a civil revolt against a dictator is silly. There are two forces at war here, and Syria is the battle ground.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Suff wrote: »
    I agree, but to simply state the current situation as a civil revolt against a dictator is silly. There are two forces at war here, and Syria is the battle ground.

    I didn't say that. I said, there are proxies very busy there. People keep posting as if the big bad west is the only force in action there. It isn't and hasn't been since after VE Day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 ✭✭✭cyberhog


    gurramok wrote: »
    The UN says it so. I take the UN's word over yours.

    Well I didn't ask you to take my word, but I don't think you should take the UN's word either, since it's quite clear the UN doesn't have any credible evidence of children being used as human shields on tanks. The truth is the UN condemned the Syrian Government based solely on hearsay information.
    Radhika Coomaraswamy: We also heard of children being used - this was recounted to us by some children - of being put on tanks and being used as human shields so that the tanks would not be fired upon."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18405800


    When serious accusations of ill-treatment are made the UN has an obligation to independently verify those statements are factual before condemning the accused. The UN hasn't done so in this case and so their report isn't worth the paper it's written on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    Suff, Assad Senior was president for life and there was every indication that Assad Junior wanted to be president for life.

    Do you honestly think he would go to all this trouble of destroying Syria, if he thought he could win an election in a reformed Syria?

    Some realism here...Assad is/was/will never be interested in reforms that mean he loses office, not a year from now, five years from now or twenty years from now.

    Removing Assad peacefully was never ever going to happen.

    It was always going to take bloodshed to overthrow Assad. If there was western intervention with modern precision guided munitions, he'd be removed in a couple of months and most of the bloodshed would be to his thugs.

    But since there's no possibility of that soon, most of the bloodshed is to innocent victims of pro Assad gangs.

    Finally, its unfair to lecture people living in Syria who want the same freedoms you now enjoy that you live in the west. If you posted what you did above, there is a good chance in Syria you'd be arrested by the secret police.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 Red_Wolf


    cyberhog wrote: »
    Suppose Assad is right and terrorists do in fact bare most of the responsibililty for the civilian massacre, and it turns out that they killed those children in the hope it would trigger a NATO intervention then I think it would be unconscionable if the West continued to support the anti-government side because it would be virtually impossible to prevent that support from reaching those terrorists aswell.

    Why would people slaughter their own mother and fathers brothers,sisters,sons and daughters!! the Free Syrian Army operates in their own towns and villages,the only terrorists in the country are Al Qaeda who are suicide bombing the capital and they don't have the numbers to go into a village and kill everyone.Hezbollah and Iran's special forces are working with the Syrian state army to kill the supporters of the FSA they are the ones that are doing this along with the thugs called shabeeha.the FSA dose not have the artillery we see every day being used to soften up the towns and villages before they go in and go house to house.(as soon as Gaddafi said that NATO were bombing every building with a green flag on it but in Syria we are watching it happen every day house by house killing and arresting).

    If the world dose not do something we will have thousands of people going on Jihad and some will be used by Al Qaeda to establish a base like in Yemen and Somalia with Al Shabab who announced recently they are part of Al Qaeda.

    We saw in Libya people going on Jihad and being turned away if they were not Libyan or if they thought it was Al Qaeda whose ally Ansar ud-Dine stole thousands of weapons from Libya and took control of 2/3 of Mali with the MNLA,that war only lasted less than a year and look how much damage was caused.This and much worse will happen Syria if nothing is done to save it!

    Can you imagine Al Qaeda with a base in the Med on the back door to Europe!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭Suff


    Redwolf,

    I doubt that you'll have Al Qaeda base in Syria. the country has been secular state for many years, since its independent from the Ottoman and later the French mandate. Islamists fundamentalists have no supporters in syria, largely due to the bombings in the early 80's by the Muslim brotherhood.

    the FSA is well armed and capable to fight and hold off the National Syrian Army. Otherwise, the regime would have wiped them out months ago.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    The one thing that is certain is that Assad has ruined Syria.

    He could have handed the country over to a democratic government and he had plenty of time to organize credible elections including credible presidential elections. The fact that he wouldn't allow anyone to run against him in the presidential elections tells its own stories, he knew he would lose if he did.

    He must take much of the blame for destroying Syria.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭Suff


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    Suff, Assad Senior was president for life and there was every indication that Assad Junior wanted to be president for life.

    Do you honestly think he would go to all this trouble of destroying Syria, if he thought he could win an election in a reformed Syria?

    Assad has lost all credibility as a president regardless of his supporters.
    If, and this is a big If; if Assad stated in his first speech at parliament that he'll resign allowing for open and independent elections he would have won! but, sadly.. he chose to ignore the calls and use the gun instead.
    Some realism here...Assad is/was/will never be interested in reforms that mean he loses office, not a year from now, five years from now or twenty years from now.

    we'll never know, for no matter how long he's in power ...has to leave office one day.
    Removing Assad peacefully was never ever going to happen.
    Could you please elaborate on this particular statement.
    If there was western intervention with modern precision guided munitions, he'd be removed in a couple of months and most of the bloodshed would be to his thugs.

    With all due respect, you clearly have no idea about the region' political structure and history. Let me put it in simple format ..armed interventions mean 3rd world war.
    Finally, its unfair to lecture people living in Syria who want the same freedoms you now enjoy that you live in the west. If you posted what you did above, there is a good chance in Syria you'd be arrested by the secret police.

    I have and will continue to post and voice my opinion, Most of my friends have and continue to voice their views, some were arrested, beaten up and sadly one was murdered.

    Since the start of the revolution, blood have been spilled, but not in the name of Syria.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭Suff


    plasmaguy wrote: »

    He must take much of the blame for destroying Syria.

    No one is denying that, but also the SFA has a lot to answer for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    suff, who started the bloodshed in Syria?

    It was the end of June 2011 before the FSA came into being.

    Before that were defecting soldiers who defected rather than shoot protesters.

    Aside from that innocent protesters were shot and murdered and imprisoned as well as tortured.

    Seriously, blaming the FSA for anything is very silly to be honest, you know that well as anyone, so lets have less of the historical revisionism here.

    The FSA for the most part are only defending themselves. If the FSA never existed, Assad would still be killing people, in fact lots more than he has.

    So stop blaming the FSA.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 Red_Wolf


    Suff wrote: »
    Redwolf,

    I doubt that you'll have Al Qaeda base in Syria. the country has been secular state for many years, since its independent from the Ottoman and later the French mandate. Islamists fundamentalists have no supporters in syria, largely due to the bombings in the early 80's by the Muslim brotherhood.

    the FSA is well armed and capable to fight and hold off the National Syrian Army. Otherwise, the regime would have wiped them out months ago.

    What country dose support people like Al Qaeda??the majority of Tuareg's in Mali or Azawad don't and they are having Wahhabi law being enforced on them its the same in southern Yemen were thousands are leaving their homes in Abbyan province and in Somalia they are hated but they controlled almost the whole country at one point,they brainwash people into believing in their Saudi supported religion of Wahhabism.
    Everyone from the FSA to the UN know Al Qaeda is in the country and it will be very easy for them to recruit with all the sectarian violence that's growing day by day,they will target the Alawis and Christians and once they have enough people they will take whole towns.

    The FSA are being given machine guns and a few million here and there but the Syrian army is constantly being given weapons tanks and helicopters by Russia and troops by Iran an Hezbollah.I don't remember the IRA taking the north with the money and guns they got from some of the people around then.

    The quicker Assad goes and a new government is created to establish law and order and start reconciliation the better.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭Suff


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    It was the end of June 2011 before the FSA came into being.
    To put it correctly, the name appeared at that date. regardless of their title, they're an armed militia that is operating in the country.
    Seriously, blaming the FSA for anything is very silly to be honest, you know that well as anyone, so lets have less of the historical revisionism here.

    Your idea of the FSA is that they're defending themselves and the people from Assad is ludicrous... The FSA have kidnaped and killed civilians and this has been documented and witnessed by many observers and Syrians.
    So stop blaming the FSA.

    No, I won't! ...I am against the FSA just as I am against Assad's regime.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    Suff wrote: »

    Your idea of the FSA is that they're defending themselves and the people from Assad is ludicrous... The FSA have kidnaped and killed civilians and this has been documented and witnessed by many observers and Syrians.

    Source about this?

    Claiming you are from Syria will only get you so far around here, you have to actually post your sources as opposed to saying you know its happening.

    The French Resistance were an armed militia who often killed civilians. George Washington lead a militia. The IRA pre 1922 were an armed militia.

    Stop being so naive. You know full well you can't freedom from regimes like Assad's without using weapons and forming a militia.

    Again you have no right to lecture the Syrian people as you don't live there and while you might think Syria under Assad was ok, clearly millions of Syrians disagree with you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    If there was western intervention with modern precision guided munitions, he'd be removed in a couple of months and most of the bloodshed would be to his thugs.

    Don't give us that crap. You simply cannot bomb the regime into nonexistence considering it has had decades to permeate itself into Syrian society. Proliferating whiteknight fantasies like that lead to disasters like Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, all of which are bordering on joining the brilliant failed state club, which includes such illustrious members as Somalia and the Congo!

    American propaganda presents their air forces as fast, quick and accurate at all times. This is hogwash considering they still use bombers from the 1950s in large numbers for deployment. Considering Syria likely have the most recent Russian AAA systems I doubt they'd be a pushover, when you take into account the Americans mass-use of retrofitted aircraft from the 1970s. Stuff like the surgical bombing of the Raptor is a fantasy- the Americans can't produce enough for such a large deployment. Same with the B2- it is an over expensive heap of junk that is already decades old but still costs vast sums to build.

    So this idea that the Americans can bomb a modern army like that of Syria into extinction, an army supplied in the most part by modern Russian export weapons, within a few days or weeks, and yet magically not kill any civilians whatsoever, is ludicrous. And at the same time, they somehow make Syria a democracy?

    A "precision strike" is useless when you "precisely" drop a bomb on a hospital filled with people.
    Again you have no right to lecture the Syrian people as you don't live there and while you might think Syria under Assad was ok, clearly millions of Syrians disagree with you.

    You are very self-righteous :rolleyes: He is simply a Syrian with an opinion. An opinion you should respect rather than labelling people as naive. Have you ever been to Syria? Do you even know what the philosophy of the Ba'ath party is?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    Throughout the uprising in Syria, President Bashar Assad has been able to count on strong support in own sect, the Alawites. But recent reports suggest that a small but growing number of Alawites are abandoning Assad.

    Sectarian divisions are said to be the main factors in recent massacres inside Syria. Alawite attackers descended on Sunni Muslim towns, killing up to 200 people, according to activists. The Alawites are a Shiite sect and are a small minority in Syria but they hold outsized power. President Bashar al-Assad is an Alawite.

    As the Russia and and China say, "Let the best team win", then when there is only one team left standing there will be some sort of peace in Syria.

    The West/UN should just stand back as Russia and China recommend they do, and let the Syrian muslims sort it out


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭Suff


    old_aussie wrote: »

    The West/UN should just stand back as Russia and China recommend they do, and let the Syrian muslims sort it out

    If only... foreign intervention is visible and have worsened the situation.But Muslims aren't the only sect in Syria, Christians have played a major role in the past, hopefully they'll start to voice their opinion soon.


    FYI; A campaign was launched last year on Facebook among Syrians to unite the people against sectarian divisions:

    Q; Are you Sunni, She'it, Alawi, Durzi, Catholic, Antiochian Orthodox, Greek Catholic, Assyrian-Church, Armenian Orthodox, Protestants....???

    A; I'm Syrian!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    Suff wrote: »
    If only... foreign intervention is visible and have worsened the situation.But Muslims aren't the only sect in Syria, Christians have played a major role in the past, hopefully they'll start to voice their opinion soon.


    FYI; A campaign was launched last year on Facebook among Syrians to unite the people against sectarian divisions:

    Q; Are you Sunni, She'it, Alawi, Durzi, Catholic, Antiochian Orthodox, Greek Catholic, Assyrian-Church, Armenian Orthodox, Protestants....???

    A; I'm Syrian!

    That sounds like the line peddled by Assad.

    All united, under Assad.

    It wears thin after a while.

    A lot of people have prospered under Assad, including some Sunnis, but it's the Alwites that have really prospered hence their desperation to hold onto power. It was the same under Gadaffi and his supporters. The vast majority suffered, while some prospered.

    It's hard to blame the people of Syria for having enough. If it was a dictatorship that had widespread support fair enough, but it doesn't and like all dictatorships, it survives by pitting one group against another and when there is a chance of the dictatorship falling, the dictator arms one side and sets them against the other, which is exactly what Assad did.

    The crimes of the FSA are miniscule in comparison to the monstrous crimes against humanity perpetrated by Assad.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Suff wrote: »
    If only... foreign intervention is visible and have worsened the situation.But Muslims aren't the only sect in Syria, Christians have played a major role in the past, hopefully they'll start to voice their opinion soon.

    FYI; A campaign was launched last year on Facebook among Syrians to unite the people against sectarian divisions:

    Q; Are you Sunni, She'it, Alawi, Durzi, Catholic, Antiochian Orthodox, Greek Catholic, Assyrian-Church, Armenian Orthodox, Protestants....???

    A; I'm Syrian!
    You're missing out the twenty-few Jews still living there...
    Maybe they're just not on Facebook.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    old_aussie wrote: »
    As the Russia and and China say, "Let the best team win", then when there is only one team left standing there will be some sort of peace in Syria.

    The West/UN should just stand back as Russia and China recommend they do, and let the Syrian muslims sort it out
    Russia and China et al (such as Lebanon and Iran) are not sitting back to let it all unfold naturally, so their recommendations just entail pretty empty self-serving advice.
    Thanks all the same.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 ✭✭✭cyberhog


    Red_Wolf wrote: »

    The quicker Assad goes and a new government is created to establish law and order and start reconciliation the better.



    We heard the same thing about Libya, the sooner Gaddafi is gone the better! Well Libya is not better now, if anything it is getting much worse.
    Reestablishing law and order has proved to be the hardest task, not least because many militias want to provide an alternative. The government has succeeded in cajoling the militiamen to make a formal decision to leave the capital’s airports. But whole units have simply switched uniforms and painted their cars the red and white of security vehicles. “We call them policemen,” a security official tells me; but the new Libya still has no criminal justice system, because judges are too nervous to issue verdicts, and the police too powerless to enforce them.


    The fighting is intensifying.
    Since Mustafa Abdel Jalil, the NTC chairman, declared an end to the civil war last October, the violence in the south is worse than it was during the struggle to oust Qaddafi. Hundreds have been killed, thousands injured, and, according to UN figures, tens of thousands displaced in ethnic feuding. Without its dictator to keep the lid on, the country, it seems, is boiling over the sides.



    Not to mention the birthplace of Libya's revolution is deteriorating day by day.
    Nowhere are the militias stronger than in Benghazi, the eastern city where Libya’s “rebelution” began. After a year of paralysis, the goodwill that still keeps the wheels of central authority turning in Tripoli has evaporated here. The courthouse, beneath which tens of thousands gathered to hail the new rulers in the first days of the uprising, is boarded up. Its leaders have long since left for the plusher world of Tripoli, lured by free accommodation in the marble decadence of the city’s Rixos Hotel. Left behind, Benghazi languishes, as before the revolution, in a perpetual ghayla—the siesta that Libyans take between the midday and late afternoon prayers. The dirt and dust of abandonment coat the city along with smoke from a thousand burning refuse piles. “At least there was a system before,” I was told by a middle-aged soccer fan, whose al-Ahli team shut down after its chairman fled to Egypt with the company’s proceeds. “Now there is nothing.”

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/jun/21/libya-cracking/?pagination=false


    If the Western nations and their Gulf allies force Assad out Syria will probably end up in the same state as Libya.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    cyberhog wrote: »
    We heard the same thing about Libya, the sooner Gaddafi is gone the better! Well Libya is not better now, if anything it is getting much worse.

    The fighting is intensifying.

    Not to mention the birthplace of Libya's revolution is deteriorating day by day.

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/jun/21/libya-cracking/?pagination=false

    If the Western nations and their Gulf allies force Assad out Syria will probably end up in the same state as Libya.

    It is worthwhile to note just how decisively Libya,as an important and influential power in it's region,has been emasculated.

    Unlike others I do not credit the USA with any great involvement in formulating the ouster of Gadaffi.

    My belief is that important,well connected,powerful and largely European interests decided that Gadaffi's "return-to-the-fold" in international diplomatic terms had been a tad too successful,resulting in a problematic rise in the ex-lunatic Gadaffi's stature in the region.

    The unpredictable and bombastic Gadaffi obligingly played straight into the trap with his blood-curdling and spectacularly graphic threats to his enemies wellbeing.

    The very mention of hunting "cockroaches from room-to-room" and of pursuing his enemies to their bloody ends must have seemed too good to miss for the well versed smooth suited psy-ops minded folk who flit about the edges of the policy formulation sections of "Major Powers".

    Therefore the status of Gadaffi's threats had to be maxed-out and used to stimulate a response strategy from those Western Powers with an "Interest" in the region.

    The result?

    The U.N./NATO strategy adopted,with great success,allowed the main players (Italy,France,UK and Germany) to wage a popular "Clean-War" against a very clearly defined, Evil,despotic dictator.

    Having proven the tactic of a supportive long-distance distance war, the UN/NATO alliance were rapidly able to disentangle themselves from the remains of Libya and head back home,without the arkward business of repatriating dead service personnel in bodybags.

    The "problem" of Gadaffi's Libya becoming overly influential in the region has been neatly solved,with only Libyan blood being spilled and the thoroughly spurious notion of a "clean" campaign of war now firmly established as achievable.

    Job done !


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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