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Was Michelle de Bruin our greatest Olympian? Eamonn Coughlan says yes

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  • #122
    Peetrik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭Peetrik


    Katie Taylor and Sonia O'Sullivan would be well ahead of her as far as Irish olympians are concerned IMO.

    Just my 2c


  • #123
    Panrich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,974 ✭✭✭Panrich


    Can someone tell me why Michelle Smyth is villified for cheating and Cian O'Connor is still competing for Ireland and signing autographs at the RDS?

    I don't see the difference except that he had to hand his Gold medal back.

    :confused:


  • #124
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Peetrik wrote: »
    Katie Taylor and Sonia O'Sullivan would be well ahead of her as far as Irish olympians are concerned IMO....
    Katie Taylor has never competed in an Olympics so she doesn't qualify.

    Sonia's paltry return of a single silver medal hardly justifies her nomination. Yes I know she put in lots of effort, was at more than one Olympics, was messed around by officialdom and so on, and was an outstanding athlete, but the theme seems to be medal hauls.


  • #125
    Peetrik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭Peetrik


    Because people who can afford show horses are more forgivable than people who could go swimming for free. Its the Irish way :)


  • #126
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Panrich wrote: »
    ... I don't see the difference except that he had to hand his Gold medal back...
    The main difference is the obvious one - O'Connor's horse failed an in-competition dope test and had been fed human anti-psychotic medicine IIRC. Michelle never failed an in-competition dope test, despite being hounded for random tests at intervals three to four times greater than the statistical norm.

    O'Connor's horse was doped up and was found out, Michelle was not doped up.


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  • #127
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,247 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Peetrik wrote: »
    Because people who can afford show horses are more forgivable than people who could go swimming for free. Its the Irish way :)

    What's this free swimming you speak of?

    I'm interested, as the parent of two swimmers, in subscribing to this "free" swimming.


  • #128
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    DebDynamite wrote: »
    Taking the tampered sample aside, her victory at the Olympics does seem suspect when you consider she had no major championship wins for most of her career and then wins 3 gold & 1 bronze medal at the age of 28, which quite old for a swimmer

    Yes, 28 is most definitely considered quite old for a swimmer.

    I find it very hard to believe she won Olympic gold on her own merit. How many seconds (minutes ;) ) did she shave off her personal best times to win the gold?

    Got this off the web:

    Ireland never had been a swimming powerhouse. They had never won an Olympic medal, and their best hope going into the 1996 games in Atalanta, Michelle Smith, had never finished better than 17th in any race in previous Olympics. But a miracle happened in 1996. At the age of 28, Michelle Smith came out of nowhere to win 3 gold medals and 1 bronze.

    All that and at age 28, too. Yeah right. :p


  • #129
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    ... All that and at age 28, too. Yeah right...
    Yes, I can confirm she was 28-ish at the time she won her medals.


  • #130
    aidan24326
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Suspicion fell on her straight away because of the incredible progress she had made in such a short time. Now I know litle about the technicalities of swimming but experts on the sport claimed the amount of time she was shaving off her personal best in such a timeframe was pretty much impossible without some sort of performance enhancing drugs.

    Not the Olympics but I reckon the cyclist Stephen Roche was doping back in the day too.


  • #131
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    mathepac wrote: »
    Yes, I can confirm she was 28-ish at the time she won her medals.

    :confused:

    I said 'and at age 28'. Where is the discrepancy?

    Ah, you were trying to be funny. :D


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  • #132
    sock puppet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    Peetrik wrote: »
    Because people who can afford show horses are more forgivable than people who could go swimming for free. Its the Irish way :)

    Swimming might not be as expensive as golf but it's more expensive than most other sports I know of.


  • #133
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Huh? She will probably have to beat ONE single competitor to win a medal, just three for gold. Hardly an enormous challenge.

    I do agree however that it is much easier to win multiple medals in swimming. In fact I'd question why do we need events over the same distance in 4 different strokes. Usain Bolt doesn't compete in the 100m Backward Hopping

    I always thought this was a bit of a joke as well. Swimming is very much geared towards the top competitors getting bags full of medals. It's farcical to have races with different strokes, really. Just have 50m, 100m, 200m etc. freestyle and get rid of all the butterfly bollocks.


  • #134
    sock puppet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I always thought this was a bit of a joke as well. Swimming is very much geared towards the top competitors getting bags full of medals.

    Yeah. When swimming strokes were developed hundreds or thousands of years ago, the creators cunningly came up with more than one style so that competitors in future Olympics could win lots of medals.


  • #135
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    sock puppet wrote: »
    Yeah. When swimming strokes were developed hundreds or thousands of years ago, the creators cunningly came up with more than one style so that competitors in future Olympics could win lots of medals.

    I imagine it was more so that the clumsier kids wouldn't drown so quickly but it's hardly a basis for having all these separate categories in the olympics.


  • #136
    sock puppet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I imagine it was more so that the clumsier kids wouldn't drown so quickly but it's hardly a basis for having all these separate categories in the olympics.

    Why shouldn't the second most popular events be in the olympics?


  • #137
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    sock puppet wrote: »
    Why shouldn't the second most popular events be in the olympics?

    For the same reason the three-legged race, cycling on flat tyres and the 50km walk shouldn't be in it. It's not a real test of the best if there's an artificial handicap involved.


  • #138
    Wossack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,921 ✭✭✭Wossack


    pickarooney wrote: »
    For the same reason the three-legged race, cycling on flat tyres and the 50km walk shouldn't be in it. It's not a real test of the best if there's an artificial handicap involved.

    sideways run, skipping, crawling, and my personal favorite, the 200m cartwheel event


  • #139
    sock puppet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    pickarooney wrote: »
    It's not a real test of the best if there's an artificial handicap involved.

    You mean like the under 23 football tournament? Or the limit of 2 athletes per country in swimming and 3 in athletics?


  • #140
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    sock puppet wrote: »
    You mean like the under 23 football tournament?
    That's a load of nonsense, yes. Football in the Olympics is pointless.
    Or the limit of 2 athletes per country in swimming and 3 in athletics?
    I don't see how that is in any way related, although I do find it very unfair that great athletes are excluded, despite being 2nd/3rd in the world, at the expense of no-hopers from non-competitive countries.


  • #141
    sock puppet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    pickarooney wrote: »
    That's a load of nonsense, yes. Football in the Olympics is pointless.


    I don't see how that is in any way related, although I do find it very unfair that great athletes are excluded, despite being 2nd/3rd in the world, at the expense of no-hopers from non-competitive countries.

    It's an artifical barrier to competition. You seem to want quite a lot of changes.


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  • #142
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    sock puppet wrote: »
    It's an artifical barrier to competition. You seem to want quite a lot of changes.

    So is not allowing drugs :D


  • #143
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    pickarooney wrote: »
    For the same reason the three-legged race, cycling on flat tyres and the 50km walk shouldn't be in it. It's not a real test of the best if there's an artificial handicap involved.

    They do the hop, skip and jump* though. And have since the ancient games.

    *The Triple jump.


  • #144
    Bob the Seducer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Bob the Seducer


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    :confused:

    I said 'and at age 28'. Where is the discrepancy?

    Ah, you were trying to be funny. :D

    According to that Yahoo article posted earlier in the thread, she was 26 at the Olympics.

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/29022012/58/london-2012-michelle-smith.html


  • #145
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    She's a cute hoor, almost got away with it :cool:

    And that's something we admire in Ireland
    Well look at boyos in the Dáil!


  • #146
    Motorist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Motorist


    The general sentiment of Michelle Smyth/De Bruin is that she is a shameless cheat who duped the Irish people. Watch RTE this summer and it's contributors during the olympics - if talking of past olympic Irish greats, she won't be mentioned. I've noticed it several times over the past decade.


  • #147
    AngeGal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 927 ✭✭✭AngeGal


    She must hugely regret not retiring due to injury or whatever in 1997. I imagine most people (probably myself included sadly) would still be gullible enough to believe that she worked hard enough to improve so much. She would still be a national hero trotted out every time the olympics/world championships, making a substantial amount of oney aswell.

    I remember how all we all thought Janet Evans (gold medal winner in 1988 and 1992) who was openly sceptical about Smith's 'improvement' was just a sore loser...how innocent we were!


  • #148
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Motorist wrote: »
    The general sentiment of Michelle Smyth/De Bruin is that she is a shameless cheat who duped the Irish people. ...
    Sorry I don't understand.
    Motorist wrote: »
    ... Watch RTE this summer and it's contributors during the olympics - if talking of past olympic Irish greats, she won't be mentioned. I've noticed it several times over the past decade.
    Personally if I were to select a media outlet renowned for its accuracy, fairness and lack of of bias I'd pick the News of the World before RTE. Oh wait a minute ... NOTW shut, RTE in the 4 Goldmines, because of poor standards, lack of transparency, not checking / cross-checking facts, no management of the fact verification process, libel, ........ OOPS


  • #149
    AngeGal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 927 ✭✭✭AngeGal


    mathepac wrote: »
    Sorry I don't understand.
    Personally if I were to select a media outlet renowned for its accuracy, fairness and lack of of bias I'd pick the News of the World before RTE. Oh wait a minute ... NOTW shut, RTE in the 4 Goldmines, because of poor standards, lack of transparency, not checking / cross-checking facts, no management of the fact verification process, libel, ........ OOPS

    Well it"s quite simple really, she swam the 400m almost twenty seconds quicker in 1996 than 1992, that level of improvement simply isn't naturally possible.


  • #150
    poppyvally
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭poppyvally


    It was her husband, Eric who put the kybash on her when he said he agreed with supplements that build muscle. Of course! he encouraged Michelle to take them, back then this stuff was not so easily detectible


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  • #151
    Motorist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Motorist


    mathepac wrote: »
    Motorist wrote: »
    The general sentiment of Michelle Smyth/De Bruin is that she is a shameless cheat who duped the Irish people. ...
    Sorry I don't understand.
    Motorist wrote: »
    ... Watch RTE this summer and it's contributors during the olympics - if talking of past olympic Irish greats, she won't be mentioned. I've noticed it several times over the past decade.
    Personally if I were to select a media outlet renowned for its accuracy, fairness and lack of of bias I'd pick the News of the World before RTE. Oh wait a minute ... NOTW shut, RTE in the 4 Goldmines, because of poor standards, lack of transparency, not checking / cross-checking facts, no management of the fact verification process, libel, ........ OOPS

    In spite of its recent failings with Kevin Smyth, RTE does a lot of good work. Interesting that you hold News of the World in higher regard and brushed over the whole Leveson inquiry while complaining. about RTE.

    To get back to the original point, the fact remains independent sports analysts (usually previous Olympic competitors) on past RTE sports programmes don't even mention the embarrassing episode that was Michelle Smyth.


This discussion has been closed.
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