Was Michelle de Bruin our greatest Olympian? Eamonn Coughlan says yes

yizorselves · 10-06-2012 01:17AM

http://www.pendlayforum.com/showthread.php?t=6611

"An Interview with Angel Heredia - Former PED Dealer to Athletes and Olympians"

read that, cheapens sport but what can ye do

DEFTLEFTHAND · 10-06-2012 01:28AM

I feel sorry for the swimmers who missed out on a medal due to this drug cheat.

Jimoslimos · 10-06-2012 01:36AM

Nodin wrote: »

Theres a bit more to it than that....none of which makes her look better...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Smith

I'm also of the view that her achievements were very suspect in light of her relationship with de Bruin and sample-tampering. However statements such as the following are extremely condescending;

Wikipedia wrote:

However, as David Wallechinsky writes in his Complete Book of the Summer Olympics series, doubts about Smith involved the fact that no Irish swimmer had ever won an Olympic medal

So US athletes should be subject to less scrutiny since they come from a bigger, more successful country than tiny insignificant Ireland. Of course no US athlete has been found doping have they? Or how many cover-ups have occurred? Names like Carl Lewis and Flo-Jo have in my eyes as much a cloud of suspicion hanging over them but that seems to get swept under the carpet.

Oranage2 · 10-06-2012 01:52AM

She was tested in 1998, she won the medals in the 1996 Olympics. That's 2 years later. She still has the medals and in my opinion the finest athlete Ireland has ever had.

K-9 · 10-06-2012 02:05AM

And those Chinese athletes deserved their medals ahead of Sonia!

DEFTLEFTHAND · 10-06-2012 02:08AM

K-9 wrote: »

And those Chinese athletes deserved their medals ahead of Sonia!

What Chinese? A Romanian athlete beat Sonia for gold fair and square in Sydney.

Hunchback · 10-06-2012 02:27AM

not saying gabriela szabo WAS definitely juiced, but her coach / husband was found in possession of a car-boot full of performance enhancing drugs just after that race

Hunchback · 10-06-2012 02:29AM

also, as well as being a barrister. michelle smith de bruin is a published academic, haven written a book called 'Transnational Litigation'

mikemac1 · 10-06-2012 02:31AM

http://www.amazon.com/Transnational-Litigation-Michelle-Smith-Bruin/dp/185800490X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339291810&sr=1-1&keywords=michelle+smith+de+bruin

For over 500 dollars I hope it's an incredible book!

Professey Chin · 10-06-2012 02:31AM

Didnt a lot of scutiny come from some US swimmer getting pissy* at a press conference after not qualifying?

*pun not intended

im invisible · 10-06-2012 03:26AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

http://www.amazon.com/Transnational-Litigation-Michelle-Smith-Bruin/dp/185800490X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339291810&sr=1-1&keywords=michelle+smith+de+bruin

For over 500 dollars I hope it's an incredible book!

turns out the butler did it

charlemont · 10-06-2012 03:37AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

She was a drug cheat and anyone who thinks she wasn't is delusional.

And I would. Anyoen who wouldn't is delusional.

Its like the skin of swimmers tends to be very pale, Obviously spending all that time in water possibly chlorine too, But no way she does nothing for me, Same with Rebecca Adlington, I couldn't.

DebDynamite · 10-06-2012 03:48AM

Taking the tampered sample aside, her victory at the Olympics does seem suspect when you consider she had no major championship wins for most of her career and then wins 3 gold & 1 bronze medal at the age of 28, which quite old for a swimmer

DEFTLEFTHAND · 10-06-2012 03:51AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

http://www.amazon.com/Transnational-Litigation-Michelle-Smith-Bruin/dp/185800490X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339291810&sr=1-1&keywords=michelle+smith+de+bruin

For over 500 dollars I hope it's an incredible book!

Thats pretty standard for a law book, they're all highly priced to reflect the relatively small market that they cater for.

ToddyDoody · 10-06-2012 04:53AM

The man from the rarely heard of these days fruit company also tended to say yes (for some reason)

charlemont · 10-06-2012 05:21AM

ToddyDoody wrote: »

The man from the rarely heard of these days fruit company also tended to say yes (for some reason)

He is locked up in a federal pen, His fruit company was only a front for his real product, Raw cocaine from Bolivia..

The Aussie · 10-06-2012 07:29AM

Marion Jones won 5 Gold at the Sydney Olympics in 2000 and only got caught as a CHEAT by her own admission in front of a Grand Jury.

Michael Smith came from no where at the age of 28(?) in the 1996 Atlanta Olympics and won 3 Gold and a Bronze when swimmers are not known for improving their times, if anything are starting to get slower.
She of course got found out latter, but not as publicly as i would have liked as it was the sample that got tampered with so the Fans of Cheating have a poxy technicality which to champion the Queen of CHEATS.

Just because someone does not get caught at an event it does not mean they have not CHEATED, it depends who has the better chemist, but that is in the past hopefully with samples now being kept for future testing.

3ndahalfof6 · 10-06-2012 07:51AM

dlofnep wrote: »

A very large portion of Olympians are on drugs, they just cycle well and haven't been caught. She was just in on the trend. Remember the talks of the Chinese eating dog-food to beat Sonia O'Sullivan? More like, roids.

sure was Sonia not on them to, she must of been she won medals and stuff, didn't they strip search her in a tunnel (the bastards).

I never heard of Michael till those Olympics sure her hubby was a right chemist

mongoman · 10-06-2012 08:05AM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

She was a drugs cheat and despite not testing positive, to suggest she wasn't juiced up for the olympics would be naive. Greatest Irish olympian my hole.

After reading that ridiculous post, I think you should have yourself tested.

A bit like saying, "Ya he's a murderer, despite never being found guilty of anything." :rolleyes:

3ndahalfof6 · 10-06-2012 08:16AM

mongoman wrote: »

After reading that ridiculous post, I think you should have yourself tested.

A bit like saying, "Ya he's a murderer, despite never being found guilty of anything." :rolleyes:

nice job of derailing the thread

Pa Dee · 10-06-2012 08:18AM

charlemont wrote: »

Yes, I have to say she is our greatest Olympian but no I wouldn't ride her.

The lass pisses pure whiskey - who wouldn't want to ride her ....

Ficheall · 10-06-2012 09:14AM

DebDynamite wrote: »

Taking the tampered sample aside, her victory at the Olympics does seem suspect when you consider she had no major championship wins for most of her career and then wins 3 gold & 1 bronze medal at the age of 28, which quite old for a swimmer

Aye, that was one of the points raised by one of her main accusers who, incidentally, is planning to partake in the Olympic trials in 2012 at the age of 40...

Wibbs · 10-06-2012 09:29AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

So US athletes should be subject to less scrutiny since they come from a bigger, more successful country than tiny insignificant Ireland. Of course no US athlete has been found doping have they? Or how many cover-ups have occurred? Names like Carl Lewis and Flo-Jo have in my eyes as much a cloud of suspicion hanging over them but that seems to get swept under the carpet.

Bingo. You could add a certain Mr Lance Armstrong to the same list of the "suspicious". A man who claims to have never failed a test, not never to have taken enhancements. Damn near every teammate of his has lit up like a Christmas tree in tests, yet he's clean? Hmmmmm. Cycling as a sport has long passed the point of clean.

Ficheall · 10-06-2012 09:47AM

Although it's disappointing that the Irish population seemed to bend over (backwards?) to agree that Michelle cheated, I don't think I'd begrudge Lance Armstrong his wins or any drugs he might be taking.

seanmacc · 10-06-2012 10:08AM

Just to add some anecodal truths to the Michelle Smith De Bruin saga that has me viewing her treatment in a totally different light. Which I heard from a number of ex employees in Dublin Port.

The person who took the drug sample from Michelle Smith De Bruin was a well known ex Irish customs officer. (Won't give his name)

This particular customs officer had a reputation down in Dublin Port in the pre free movement of goods across the EU era for taking back handers off tuckers and freight companies to get their loads through customs and out of the port asap. (The reputation of this man was well known to many who worked in the old B&I)

There is a journalist researching this mans reputation. Although it does not prove Michelles innocence it does put an extra doubt onto what the accepted version of events was. There may be a reason the lady is so vividly to this day trying to clear the blemish on her reputation.

Wibbs · 10-06-2012 10:13AM

I would. Simply because of the BS around him. Not the effort and training required on his part. Drugs don't magically make you better without serious serious effort, but looking at the times and speeds of races since the mid late 80's certainly makes one go "ah here Ted". When you see someone like him with the build more of a sprinter fly past naturally built climbers on hill climbs you start to ask questions. A few years back I read of an English lad who was a national winner on the amateur time trial circuit(and the Brits love time trialling and are damn good at it). Had a few national records under his belt. He got a place with some small team on the Tour de France and a time trial came around, one that was a distance he was very comfortable at and he ended up coming something like 3rd from last out of over a 100 other riders. Things that make you go "hmmmm" indeed.

Paul Kimmage's book on the subject "Rough Ride" is well worth a read and his experiences were at the dawn of the real boost in "enhancements". Previously it was more about stimulants and cortisiods(sp) to recover and stay on the bike day in day out.

Greg Lemond, one helluva talented rider noticed the change when he came back when he saw who had been mixed middling riders sailing past him.

Read an interesting blog(I'll try to find it) written by a low level US guy who ended up on the European pro circuit. It was an eye opener. Apparently some riders have more "talent" for drugs. IE when this bloke went to Italy one of his teammates was another American chappie who was slower than him back home, but was magically much faster over in Italy. He started on the same drug regime and improved but not nearly to the degree of this guy. The team doctor said this was common enough. That while you can't turn a cart horse into a champion race horse, you can turn a middling racehorse into a champion, but some see much bigger gains than others.

Red21 · 10-06-2012 10:40AM

seanmacc wrote: »

There may be a reason the lady is so vividly to this day trying to clear the blemish on her reputation.

:eek: I think it's more than a blemish.
The thing I could never understand around all this is why isn't her coach lauded as as an irish hero by those who think she is innocent, Erik de bruin got this complete outsider to be one of the grestest swimmers of all time yet I don't remember the guy being once interviewed or ever having anything to say about it. If the lights of Jimmy Mcgee think so highly of her why has he never mentioned this guy, if they (jimmy and Eamonn) truly believe what they say, they should be trying to get a statue erected to honour him.
If you believe she is innocent then you believe that Michelle and Erik de bruin revolutioniesd swimming. How come the top swimmers havn't looked for or followed their training programme.

seanmacc · 10-06-2012 10:47AM

Red21 wrote: »

If you believe she is innocent then you believe that Michelle and Erik de bruin revolutioniesd swimming. How come the top swimmers havn't looked for or followed their training programme.

Maybe because they spent that much time calling them drug cheats that they weren't interested in having anything to do with them.

Michelle was not even getting close to World Record times when she was competitive. I'm not saying I believe she is innocent but I'd like to keep an open mind about it. In fairness, who would be naive enough to spike their samle with whiskey and think they'd not get caught?

The Aussie · 10-06-2012 10:59AM

A interesting article of a "Where are they now theme".
this part especially "on top of the tampering of the urine, Smith had also taken the bodybuilding drug Androstenedione, a metabolic precursor of testosterone, the night before the test."
and "three samples, taken between November 1997 and March 1998, had shown traces of Androstenedione, which was a banned drug. FINA thought they had a better case when it came to the tampered test"
So there was a bit more than the tampering of a sample to contend with which i probably why they decided to hand down the maximum of 4 years

I love the picture on the Sports Illustrated Mag, looks like one of the arms of those Chinese swimmers who appeared out of no where and disappeared just as quickly after blowing everyone else out of the water in the mid 90's

uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/29022012/58/london-2012-michelle-smith.html

fran17 · 10-06-2012 11:04AM

i dont believe she was totally innocent of some form of wrong doing but nobody who gets to the very top of there field is.the majority of the contoversy was whipped up by the u.s because little miss perfect janet evans did'nt win.typical american sour grapes

Was Michelle de Bruin our greatest Olympian? Eamonn Coughlan says yes

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