Private Paramedic Course coming closer to reality

groundhurling · 09-05-2012 02:39PM #1

*Removed link* If the mods are ok with it I'll add it again. It is to the facebook page of the company. They're based in the west...that should clear it up for anyone.

The private training company here has just reeased on facebook its intention to develop a private paramedic course.

International Paramedic Programme

We are currently in the advanced stages of setting up an 'International Paramedic Programme'. The programme will involve a blended learning didactic phase which will be completed in Ireland and international clinical placements and internship. The programme will be run through ourselves and a partner University. We are currently seeking expressions of interest from potential students. If you would be interested in attending a briefing session and finding out more about what the programme will entail please email your details to the following email address:**********
The course cost is projected to be in the region of €17500.

Will be tough getting accredited when placements are done overseas?

miju · 09-05-2012 03:48PM

Whatever about my opinion that I think majority of people throw away €2,500 to privately train as an EMT for no apparant reason I really dont see the point of spending €17,500 plus travel / accom expenses to privately train between here and another country with zero gaurentee of a job.

Thats not even mentioning that when someone qualifies as a Paramedic (and assuming they are PHECC accredited with this course) that if they don't find work (and regular work at that) within a year then they will be losing their license because of no CPC and joining a voluntary wouldn't bring enough to CPC at Paramedic level.

They already seem to be dodging some pretty basic questions about PHECC / Expenses on their Facebook page about aspects of the course by just replying with come along to our session which to me speaks volumes and given it's also with a foreign university I'd say they are "reselling" for want of a better phrase.

Think anyone thinking of doing this is nuts to be honest and if they want to work on frontline then just go do it foreign like others have done.

resus · 09-05-2012 08:22PM

Reality is that paramedic training worldwide is heading towards a university degree like nursing. This is only the beginnings. NAS and DFB will soon be able to recruit directly from a pool of graduates looking for jobs.

miju · 09-05-2012 11:40PM

resus wrote: »

Reality is that paramedic training worldwide is heading towards a university degree like nursing. This is only the beginnings. NAS and DFB will soon be able to recruit directly from a pool of graduates looking for jobs.

Exactly there a moves / suggestions that within the next year or two Paramedic will be available through the CAO

mrpresident · 10-05-2012 09:14AM

Fair enough lads you can say people threw away €2500 euro on a course but the same can be said to people going to any college or university in the country at the minute, can it not? At the end of the day it is the perogative of the person involved to fully research and think through their decision before handing over their hard earned cash!

€17500 approx for a 2 year program that is apparently abroad is not actually that expensive considering it is with an international university. Even if it doesn't include living or travelling expenses (dunno if it does or not). If you look at other professions and the charges that universities impose on students then it's about average. http://nuigalway.ie/courses/fees-and-funding/
From what I can see this company are offering people a chance to 'do it foreign' and maybe people will have a bit more security in their course and future prospects (accreditation) seeing as it's an Irish company offering it?

Either way I don't think we should knock it until we know the full story. We all know there's way to much info involved for it to be just posted up online and maybe their idea of an info session thing isn't a bad idea becuse it'll give people the opportunity to ask all questions and make their mind up for themselves rather than relying on forums and facebook conversations for info.

Lastly!!! The CAO program is undoubtedly the way forward

Elessar · 10-05-2012 09:32AM

That price is nuts. Anyone really wanting to be a Paramedic ASAP should just do what a mate of mine is doing. He went to the states paid I think $9k to do a paramedic course, completed it and is now working full time over there for a few years before he comes back to Ireland and should hopefully then be PHECC accredited. He knows exactly what he has to do for the PHECC registration and is doing it abroad, and getting paid.

Hell, he may not even bother coming home! Seems to be really enjoying himself.

mrpresident · 10-05-2012 09:43AM

That is fantastic for him. Genuinely fair play to him he has obviously done his homework. I know of people who have gone over there and gotten a paramedic qualification, paid good money, and come back only to be told that their qualification isn't recognised. Best to be fully informed before signing up to anything is all I'm saying!:D

miju · 10-05-2012 02:07PM

mrpresident wrote: »

From what I can see this company are offering people a chance to 'do it foreign' and maybe people will have a bit more security in their course and future prospects (accreditation) seeing as it's an Irish company offering it?

Your missing the point entirely. If most people who do the private EMT course cant get a job then what happens when a person pays €17,500 and two years of their life and qualifies on the PHECC register as a paramedic and they dont get a job then after their first year their license will be gone.

Even if they do get a part time job it more than likely wouldn't be enough patient contacts to renew their license.

mrpresident wrote: »

Either way I don't think we should knock it until we know the full story. We all know there's way to much info involved for it to be just posted up online and maybe their idea of an info session thing isn't a bad idea./

Not picking a row here but seeing as you compared the fee to other universities I dont see why they dont put up all info the same as all other universities put up their modules / syllabus on their sites.

miju · 10-05-2012 02:11PM

mrpresident wrote: »

That is fantastic for him. Genuinely fair play to him he has obviously done his homework. I know of people who have gone over there and gotten a paramedic qualification, paid good money, and come back only to be told that their qualification isn't recognised. Best to be fully informed before signing up to anything is all I'm saying!:D

and he'd of been told right as PHECC don't recognise foreign qaulifications (altough PHECC's CPG's are broadly based on some US States CPG's are very similiar) as they have to undertake PHECC's recognition of equivalance process ( here ) and after paying €230 each applicant is dealt with on a case by case basis so theres no gaurentee.

See where I'm going with this private Paramedics course now.

mrpresident · 10-05-2012 03:40PM

In fairness you are right. However the same can be said for IT people, accountants, engineers etc... who do college courses and can't get jobs. Their qualifications become obsolete if they don't keep up regular experience, and rightly so. The onus is on the student to get their own job regardless of how hard it is to get one. I know the onus was on me when I did mine anyway!
Anyway it's an international paramedic qualification apparently and this will entitle them to work elsewhere outside of Ireland where there may be plenty of jobs. On top of that I assume that this college wouldn't be offering a course that doesn't at least match up to the PHECC standard and if they're offering the course considering it is so expensive I would assume they're going to have to inform people of the pitfalls of applying for accreditation and I hope they don't do it on a first come first served basis and vet people to ensure people are suitable!

I know you're not picking a row but in fairness they're trying to find out if there is interest and they're in 'advanced stages' of development according to their FB page so maybe they're trying to assess the potential for students to do the course. Reckon all of the info will be given on the open day or whatever it is they're running. I'd love to find out what the craic it either way!

I see exactly where you're going with the private paramedic course. But I for one would prefer to sign up to a home based company and head abroad with a class of people I know rather than head into the big bad world without any comeback or accountability for the stuff I learn apart from my own conscience!!! See where I'm coming from?:D

gem112 · 10-05-2012 09:43PM

I wonder if course is being run through a college in the uk..Middlesex I think.... Saw a link on a web page re a BSc in paramedicine

Louth EMT · 13-05-2012 11:00AM

What about the HSE or DFB charging students €10000 for the Trainee Paramedic Course towards the class elements. Students could then still be paid for the placements and internship as they are now. This would save HSE / DFB money on expensive recruitment campaings and trainers wages. Plus anyone forking out €10,000 will have the incentive to study hard to pass.

Medic475 · 13-05-2012 02:03PM

Louth EMT wrote: »

What about the HSE or DFB charging students €10000 for the Trainee Paramedic Course towards the class elements. Students could then still be paid for the placements and internship as they are now. This would save HSE / DFB money on expensive recruitment campaings and trainers wages. Plus anyone forking out €10,000 will have the incentive to study hard to pass.

Great idea but would be too straight forward for the HSE to do something like that! They like to make things awkward and out of the way!

coolmoose · 13-05-2012 04:23PM

Another private training provider are also in the process of setting up a Private Paramedic course (below from their site):

"We at ***OTHER PRIVATE PROVIDER*** are currently in the process of developing a Paramedic course program. The demand to have Private Paramedic training in Ireland is quite high. No private PHECC recognised institution is yet able to provide this level of training and no public run PHECC recognised institution is currently running this level of training for the public.

We are currently assessing issues relating to the running criteria of this course and hope to have a solution this year.

Entry criteria onto any prospective Paramedic course which we will run will include the following:
Qualification at NQEMT-EMT level
Hep B injections up to date
Garda vetting clearence
Full drivers licence for a car
Suitability based interview
2 checkable written references
Full payment of deposit prior to course commencement

Our course will have 3 phases of progression
Phase 1 will entail a 10 week full time training period, Paramedic level MCQs and OSCEs.
Phase 2 may contain local and foreign clinical undergraduate internships, approx 560 hours, and a 30 hour PHTLS or ITLS course
Phase 3 may contain local and foreign clinical postgraduate internships of approx 2100 hours followed by Paramedic level SAQs and more OSCEs.

This course is for the determined, focused and hard working student.

When we get accreditation for our Paramedic course, it is our intension to train 24 persons per class, starting a new phase 1 group every 6 to 8 months."

Looks like private paramedic training in this country could become a reality.

Mycroft H · 13-05-2012 06:40PM

coolmoose wrote: »

Another private training provider are also in the process of setting up a Private Paramedic course (below from their site):

"We at ***OTHER PRIVATE PROVIDER*** are currently in the process of developing a Paramedic course program. The demand to have Private Paramedic training in Ireland is quite high. No private PHECC recognised institution is yet able to provide this level of training and no public run PHECC recognised institution is currently running this level of training for the public.

We are currently assessing issues relating to the running criteria of this course and hope to have a solution this year.

Entry criteria onto any prospective Paramedic course which we will run will include the following:
Qualification at NQEMT-EMT level
Hep B injections up to date
Garda vetting clearence
Full drivers licence for a car
Suitability based interview
2 checkable written references
Full payment of deposit prior to course commencement

Our course will have 3 phases of progression
Phase 1 will entail a 10 week full time training period, Paramedic level MCQs and OSCEs.
Phase 2 may contain local and foreign clinical undergraduate internships, approx 560 hours, and a 30 hour PHTLS or ITLS course
Phase 3 may contain local and foreign clinical postgraduate internships of approx 2100 hours followed by Paramedic level SAQs and more OSCEs.

This course is for the determined, focused and hard working student.

When we get accreditation for our Paramedic course, it is our intension to train 24 persons per class, starting a new phase 1 group every 6 to 8 months."

Looks like private paramedic training in this country could become a reality.

If thats the site I'm thinking of, its been saying that for the last year. How are you going to get your CPD hours if your not working full time?

antichrist · 19-05-2012 02:25PM

There is no guarantee that PHECC will recognise these courses once completed. If you're that eager to become a paramedic then why not apply to one of the ambulance trusts in the UK?

Doing it privatly, you could be looking at working for 2100 hours for free (or close enough to it). A private provider approached the HSE enquiring about putting students on a frontline ambulance for 1 year internship for free!!! I'm sorry but shifts are scarce for some of our own lads...I wouldn't be willing to allow a member of the public to take these shifts too!!

BoonDoc · 30-05-2012 05:19AM

The advantage of these non PHECC paramedic courses is that they allow training to gain employment as a paramedic outside of Ireland.

To be honest, how many PHECC Paramedics will HSE hire in the next ten years? At least there are options here in Ireland to gain training that will get jobs. Even if they are in the oil industry or other offshore paramedic options.

Also, the PHECC paramedic is not up to the same standard as the US or AREMT paramedic training.

paraletic · 30-05-2012 06:39AM

BoonDoc wrote: »

Also, the PHECC paramedic is not up to the same standard as the US or AREMT paramedic training.

Really? Because I think prehospital care standards are excellent in Ireland. Irish paramedics have a good skill set , Irish ap standard is considered very high.

coolmoose · 30-05-2012 10:31AM

paraletic wrote: »

Really? Because I think prehospital care standards are excellent in Ireland. Irish paramedics have a good skill set , Irish ap standard is considered very high.

The training from here is considered good, but the skillsets don't match up to a lot of grades abroad. For instance in the US, Canada, South Africa etc. a lot advanced grade paramedics (varies by state/jurisdiction) can perform external transcutaneous pacing, mechanical & chemical cardioversion, external jugular cannulation, rapid sequence intubation, nasal intubation, sedation etc. These are not just additional skills, but involve considerable extra education and skills training. The skillsets of an NREMT-P and an AREMT-P, or Canadian ACP (Paramedic II) are relatively similar. SA CCAs & ECPs can also perform retrograde intubation, apply PASGs etc.

So in that sense, Irish P & AP don't meet international standards, but in time I have no doubt that the skillset and knowledge base of both P & AP will increase in scope. Also skillsets generally reflect the systems which they apply to, therefore SA ECPs etc would need better trauma management skills and interventions based on workload from RTAs and stabbings/shootings etc.

BoonDoc · 30-05-2012 11:47AM

paraletic wrote: »

Really? Because I think prehospital care standards are excellent in Ireland. Irish paramedics have a good skill set , Irish ap standard is considered very high.

I never said that the training is substandard here. I just said that the PHECC Paramedics are not up to the international standard for paramedics as CoolMoose mentioned.

A paramedic should be able to cannulate, run cardiac casualties and intubate. The PHECC Paramedic is only slightly above the EMT-Basic level found elsewhere in the world.

The PHECC AP is something completely different. They have a profound understanding of paramedic science much more than an international paramedic.

My only point is that it is great to see options here in Ireland to get certification as a non-Irish Paramedic that will get you a job outside of Ireland.

Mycroft H · 31-05-2012 12:33AM

Best bet to do it privately is to do Paramedic Science through on one of the UK colleges and receive NHS funding towards the fees.

paraletic · 02-06-2012 11:45PM

BoonDoc wrote: »

A paramedic should be able to cannulate, run cardiac casualties and intubate. The PHECC Paramedic is only slightly above the EMT-Basic level found elsewhere in the world.

The PHECC AP is something completely different. They have a profound understanding of paramedic science much more than an international paramedic.

My only point is that it is great to see options here in Ireland to get certification as a non-Irish Paramedic that will get you a job outside of Ireland.

I agree (sort of). Irish paramedics have quite a high skill level and most paramedics have a very indepth knowledge of prehospital care. However they have been held back from their full potential (which is being gradualy rectified due to the ongoing review of paramedic practice).

Yes paramedics in ireland need to be allowed a greater skill set (Although in my opinion irish parAmedics are great).

And Irish APs are ( in my opinion) are a level above most international standards. (because of their education - not their "skill set").

I hate seeing threads encouraging people to leave Ireland. Although I understand the frustration of getting into the HSE. If you want to get a great qualification in prehospital care, then Ireland is the place to be. However if all your want is to do is work in the ambulance service then, yeah, uk maybe the best option. Only because the Irish ambulance service is not an easy place to get into (not because it is inferior).

coolmoose · 03-06-2012 07:22PM

paraletic wrote: »

And Irish APs are ( in my opinion) are a level above most international standards. (because of their education - not their "skill set").

Advanced practice is a 3rd level education in most developed countries, resulting in a PGCert, PGDip, MSc etc. in paramedic science/practice or intensive care practice. Advanced education in some other countries far exceeds the AP education curriculum.

Saying that, the PGDip here is a great qualification, don't get me wrong, but to say it is way above most international standards would be incorrect.

craftylady72 · 07-06-2012 08:55AM

Ok guys the EMT course is starting this month in my area,I really want to do it but it's gonna put big financial strain on me & my family. Am I mad? Is it just a pipe dream? I really want to work as an EMT and hopefully a paramedic one day. My present job is slowly killing me so I need to make a change. I'm just looking for advice please???

civdef · 07-06-2012 10:16AM

Are you in a voluntary organisation?

miju · 07-06-2012 10:30AM

craftylady72 wrote: »

Ok guys the EMT course is starting this month in my area,I really want to do it but it's gonna put big financial strain on me & my family. Am I mad? Is it just a pipe dream? I really want to work as an EMT and hopefully a paramedic one day. My present job is slowly killing me so I need to make a change. I'm just looking for advice please???

Work for EMT's is VERY thin on the ground if you are doing the course just to try get a job I would advise not to.Join a voluntary would be the way to go

BoonDoc · 07-06-2012 05:16PM

craftylady72 wrote: »

Ok guys the EMT course is starting this month in my area,I really want to do it but it's gonna put big financial strain on me & my family. Am I mad? Is it just a pipe dream? I really want to work as an EMT and hopefully a paramedic one day. My present job is slowly killing me so I need to make a change. I'm just looking for advice please???

Hi Crafty,

Someone told me that there are 300 new PHECC EMTs churned out every year. Do you think that many of them have a job?

The ambulance companies will be happy to take your money for courses but they will not give you a skill set that will get you employment here in Ireland.

If you want to change your career and work in prehospital care then I agree with this other posts saying that you should work in the voluntary organisations. They will send you to the PHECC EFR and PHECC EMT courses.

If you want a paramedic job then you are going to have to look to the UK. They do take part time paramedics. You can go work a week every few months to supplement your income.

There are also jobs offshore in the oil industry where you can work three weeks on and three weeks off throughout the year.

For those jobs you definitely need the Offshore Medics course from the UK.

There are options out there for getting work. You might need to look outside of the Irish HSE to do it.

DUBDUBDUB · 08-10-2012 06:20AM

If you can go to the states or UK, do it. Why take the risk on an untried qual? In all honesty your training level as a Paramedic would be recognised worldwide for sure if you trained in one of those countries. With regards to training in Ireland,PHECC AP is the only level thats really recognised worldwide but really you have to be in HSE/DFB as a Paramedic for about 2 years post qual before they let you even sit the AP course.

So thats 2 years to Paramedic, another 2 years on the road, 12 month AP course, internship to get a qual that you can get elsewhere in less time.

I repeat, PHECC Paramedic level is really only of use to you in Ireland, if you wanna go elsewhere, get an internationally recognised qual

Private Paramedic Course coming closer to reality

Comments