rebuilding an existing site - need advice due to lack of experience

miec · 06-06-2012 03:26PM #1

Hi All

I work for a non-profit and the current website needs upgrading (seriously so). Over the years I have been a web administrator (updating content) using either very old Dreamweaver and FTP and latterly CMS (a bespoke system). I am currently doing a digital marketing company paid for by my work and now they have asked can I rebuild our site using the latest Dreamweaver / illustrator / adobe (which I am very out of touch with). I have never built a site from scratch although I probably could do it if needed and I could learn but my concerns are this:-

I have very little graphic design experience, our current site has a password protected side so new users need a password and access -I have no idea how to set that up, I have very little IT troubleshooting understanding, I have basic html, our site also has SSL encryption and also I am worried about the more technical maintenance side if things go wrong. I can fix hyperlinks and test them and all that side of things. I could learn how to do all this but I have no idea where to start - I should say I know a little about SEO, embedding google analytics into a site (ie: I can copy and paste code) but building from scratch and then transferring the current stuff to the new site basically really worries me. Is it achievable with the above additions? Also we have a discussion board and I have no idea how to add one of those to the site. Should I attempt to learn or advise my workplace to use the existing web designer (who I should say is doing a poor job at the moment - which is why this has been asked of me).

Freddio · 06-06-2012 03:56PM

I would call in a professional if I were you, the learning curve you describe is quite steep.

Trojan · 06-06-2012 08:26PM

While I'm in agreement that hiring an expert is often the best course of action, I do believe that the OP can probably do some, or even much, of the work themselves, based on the spec and their experience.

miec wrote: »

they have asked can I rebuild our site using the latest Dreamweaver / illustrator / adobe (which I am very out of touch with). I have never built a site from scratch although I probably could do it if needed and I could learn but my concerns are this:-

If you're motivated and have some basic background, you can certainly learn how to setup a new site with content management system (CMS) which does most of what you need.

miec wrote: »

I have very little graphic design experience,

There are 3 potential solutions here:
1) Use the existing front end design for the new site; or
2) Use a high quality template for a CMS of your choice; or
3) Hire a designer to work with you on this phase of the project.

miec wrote: »

our current site has a password protected side so new users need a password and access -I have no idea how to set that up, I have very little

Depending on how complex the setup is for your new users, this might just be a case of using the CMS features out-of-the-box, or you might need some custom coding done.

miec wrote: »

IT troubleshooting understanding, I have basic html, our site also has SSL encryption

Setting up an SSL certificate (with a good hosting company) is relatively simple task that should take less than an hour (5 minutes for an expert).

miec wrote: »

and also I am worried about the more technical maintenance side if things go wrong. I can fix hyperlinks and test them and all that side of things. I could learn how to do all this but I have no idea where to start - I should say I
know a little about SEO, embedding google analytics into a site (ie: I can copy and paste code) but building from scratch and then transferring the current stuff to the new site basically really worries me. Is it achievable with the above additions?

With modern CMS's it's possible to build a site without touching ever touching a line of HTML. (It's still useful to know it because it helps you understand how the system works).

miec wrote: »

Also we have a discussion board and I have no idea how to add one of those to the site.

Depending on the CMS adding a new discussion forum can be a very simple job. If there's heavy traffic you might want to consider installing VBulletin or a cheaper solution like phpBB. There's lots of options out there.

miec wrote: »

Should I attempt to learn or advise my workplace to use the existing web designer (who I should say is doing a poor job at the moment - which is why this has been asked of me).

The decision depends on a lot of factors: their budget for the project, how quickly they need the new site created, how motivated you are to learn and how willing you are to work on the edge of your comfort zone, how responsive they would be to you requesting external assistance on some parts of the project (e.g. design or SSL, etc).

If you break the project down into sub-tasks and put them all down on paper in front of you it becomes a lot easier to figure out if you're up to it and if you want to take it on. If you like a challenge and know that your employer will support you through the rough parts, go for it. On the other hand, it might be less hassle to employ a 3rd party.

miec · 06-06-2012 10:29PM

@Trojan

Thank you for the incredibly helpful, insightful and helpful reply. It has helped enormously and you broke it down beautifully.

Initially when my boss hinted at me taking it over I was like no way, no can do but since I have been doing the digital marketing course, plus my pottered background I think I can do some stuff. As a result my motivation to do it is increasing for two reasons 1) the challenge and doing something new and 2) I want to develop a career in web editorial etc and if the company I am with purchases the latest dreamweaver / illustrator and I learn to use it makes me more marketable. I came across a brilliant website that teaches html and css etc which for me is a great starting point to really understand the building blocks of a site. The ideas you suggest do not daunt me so much so I will take it away and work out a proposal with my boss and see what we can do, what will happen is that the existing site will stay live so we can build the new one up. There isn't a timeline but ideally over the summer / autumn, the only thing being is we run on a shoestring budget and I fulfil a number of other roles so it is whether I have time or maybe I can build up flexitime with this project by working on it at home. Thanks a mill though, I don't feel so scared now.

Freddio · 06-06-2012 11:28PM

Sounds like you just needed convincing. Stackoverflow.com is great when you get stuck

JD RoX · 07-06-2012 09:24PM

miec wrote: »

if the company I am with purchases the latest dreamweaver / illustrator

For the price of those two, your company can actually hire a freelancer and pay more than half of his wages for doing this project...

But okay, we'll look at scenario in which you're rebuilding the site:

Your skill set

You can edit hyperlinks
You can copy&paste google analytics
You know a bit about SEO

I have the same set of skills as you do + 7 year experience in Photoshop (by the way, you use photoshop to design websites, not illustrator), small knowledge of HTML5 (started learning this week) and a bit of PHP. At the moment, I couldn't even build a proper portfolio website, to suit all major web browsers, mobile devices and OS's. And you are talking about a massive build - cms, databases, user login system etc, all on your own... Just being realistic here.

Okay, maybe you are a genius and can learn all that in few weeks (or whenever is your deadline), but I wouldn't experiment on company I work for.

About the design part..
Your best bet would be to buy a ready made template, like Trojan said, but remember - they will never suit all your needs. Hiring a designer would be more expensive (€20 - €100 per page, depending on complexity of design), but they could make exactly what you need.

What I would do..
As far as I see, you already have a system developed with customer login etc, so why not just do a facelift? I would totally redesign the website, to look more like 2012, and then just hire somebody to code html+css version - wouldn't even have to change the system.

Trojan · 07-06-2012 11:54PM

JD RoX wrote: »

(by the way, you use photoshop to design websites, not illustrator)

That's not a definite thing by a long shot.

I know some folks who design in Keynote, others who design in the browser, and Illustrator is the tool of choice for ~90% of the design work of the best designer I've ever worked with.

JD RoX wrote: »

you are talking about a massive build - cms, databases, user login system etc, all on your own... Just being realistic here.

A CMS can already include "cms, databases, user login system etc" and you can install a CMS in about 30 seconds if the host has an install script. Lots of things come into play (if the CMS supports all the features required, and/or if there are 3rd party plugins available, etc), but let's not over-egg it here - it's very possible for a novice to install a complex CMS setup with the right guidance or with some rudimentary skills and a good amount of motivation.

JD RoX · 08-06-2012 07:04AM

Trojan wrote: »

That's not a definite thing by a long shot.

I know some folks who design in Keynote, others who design in the browser, and Illustrator is the tool of choice for ~90% of the design work of the best designer I've ever worked with.

Illustrator - Vector graphics
Photoshop - Bitmap Graphics

That's the main difference between them. Of course, professionals use both plus many more.
I couldn't create all the logos and icons in photoshop, that's why illustrator is a great tool, but it sucks for web design, unless you want something simple.

miec · 08-06-2012 03:01PM

For the price of those two, your company can actually hire a freelancer and pay more than half of his wages for doing this project...

We may still do that. As I said it is about cost + time and the fact that I do a number of other roles but I wanted to weigh it up against if I could do it myself.

I have the same set of skills as you do + 7 year experience in Photoshop (by the way, you use photoshop to design websites, not illustrator), small knowledge of HTML5 (started learning this week) and a bit of PHP. At the moment, I couldn't even build a proper portfolio website, to suit all major web browsers, mobile devices and OS's. And you are talking about a massive build - cms, databases, user login system etc, all on your own... Just being realistic here.

Okay, maybe you are a genius and can learn all that in few weeks (or whenever is your deadline), but I wouldn't experiment on company I work for.

I'm no genius lol but if I decide to properly apply myself I could learn but it would be a lot of trial and error but isn't that how a lot of people started off.

About the design part..
Your best bet would be to buy a ready made template, like Trojan said, but remember - they will never suit all your needs. Hiring a designer would be more expensive (€20 - €100 per page, depending on complexity of design), but they could make exactly what you need.

As far as I see, you already have a system developed with customer login etc, so why not just do a facelift? I would totally redesign the website, to look more like 2012, and then just hire somebody to code html+css version - wouldn't even have to change the system.

As far as I know the front end part of the website is too old for a facelift but I could be wrong (our current web designer said it needs a total revamp as it was done in 2006) but your suggestions are worth thinking about.

JD RoX · 08-06-2012 03:09PM

Of course he will say it needs a total rebuild... He probably needs money to pay for his summer holidays

There are always ways around it

The Corinthian · 08-06-2012 04:17PM

miec wrote: »

I'm no genius lol but if I decide to properly apply myself I could learn but it would be a lot of trial and error but isn't that how a lot of people started off.

As has been suggested it would be a very steep learning curve, so it would likely be a lot of trial and error. Question is do you have the time to invest in it?

As far as I know the front end part of the website is too old for a facelift but I could be wrong (our current web designer said it needs a total revamp as it was done in 2006) but your suggestions are worth thinking about.

Your current web designer is probably right; seven years is a pretty long lifespan for any single version of any software, including Web sites. Much of the underlying technology is likely out of date and over the years changes tend to accumulatively weaken the performance of any site.

You might write a brief for what you're looking for and post it here, inviting people to give ballpark quotes. At the very least, you'll get a better idea of what will be involved and even if you decide to stick with your current web designer, you'll be better able to 'manage' them.

miec · 09-06-2012 06:25PM

Your current web designer is probably right; seven years is a pretty long lifespan for any single version of any software, including Web sites. Much of the underlying technology is likely out of date and over the years changes tend to accumulatively weaken the performance of any site.

I agree and it is experiencing problems for quite some time.

You might write a brief for what you're looking for and post it here, inviting people to give ballpark quotes. At the very least, you'll get a better idea of what will be involved and even if you decide to stick with your current web designer, you'll be better able to 'manage' them.

On deeper reflection I don't have the time and the stress involved in building up the site would wreck my head considering my lack of knowledge. Also I realise my boss is looking for the cheaper option but in reality it won't be. The boss is reluctant in using someone else despite me telling them that there are loads of web designers hungry for the work / talented etc. However I think I have a bit more knowledge / ammunition to say why it is not feasible for me to do it.

Thanks for the advice everyone. If I get the go ahead to look elsewhere I'll come here.

The Corinthian · 10-06-2012 11:18AM

miec wrote: »

On deeper reflection I don't have the time and the stress involved in building up the site would wreck my head considering my lack of knowledge.

In my mind, throwing yourself at the deep end for something that would not even be your job and accepting responsibility for it if it goes pear-shaped is a very bad idea. This is not to say that you should not improve your IT skills and learn how to build a site, but you can do that without any pressure on your weekends for yourself.

Also I realise my boss is looking for the cheaper option but in reality it won't be. The boss is reluctant in using someone else despite me telling them that there are loads of web designers hungry for the work / talented etc. However I think I have a bit more knowledge / ammunition to say why it is not feasible for me to do it.

Tell them you'll seek quotes anyway - there's very little extra work involved because ultimately you are going to have to come up with a requirements brief anyway. Even if you don't go with another developer, it will at the very least put pressure on your existing developer to be competitive rather than sitting back in the knowledge that it's a done deal.

There's actually no legitimate reasons, in my mind, as to why your boss would object to you shopping around.

miec · 10-06-2012 09:12PM

There's actually no legitimate reasons, in my mind, as to why your boss would object to you shopping around.

Legitimate being the key word, unfortunately they have controlling issues but that is a whole other topic. This experience has at least awakened an interest in me and now that I have some pointers it is something I can work on privately.

rebuilding an existing site - need advice due to lack of experience

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