I can't believe there are still Northern Irish people like this.

Deedsie · 24-05-2012 02:25AM

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Doesn't the UK government claim to be the government of Antrim, Armagh, Derry, Down, Fermanagh and Tyrone?

It wasn't my intention to misrepresent your opinions by quoting snippets. I was saying that from my point of view that since I cannot vote in Dáil elections that they do not represent me adequately.

You just did it again. Misquote me again by selecting snippets of my comment and I'll report your attempt to portray my comments incorrectly. Just quote my full comment if you take issue with my comment!

Now antrim, Armagh, Derry, down, Fermanagh and Tyrone are in Northen Ireland. I said Dáil Éireann represents Ireland! A country that at present represents 26 counties. Ireland is the official name of the country! The island of Ireland is made up of Ireland* and Northern Ireland!

*Ireland may be defined as the republic of ireland to distinguish from northern Ireland

fasttalkerchat · 24-05-2012 02:30AM

Deedsie wrote: »

You just did it again. Misquote me again by selecting snippets of my comment and I'll report your attempt to portray my comments incorrectly. Just quote my full comment if you take issue with my comment!

Now antrim, Armagh, Derry, down, Fermanagh and Tyrone are in Northen Ireland. I said Dáil Éireann represents Ireland! A country that at present represents 26 counties. Ireland is the official name of the country! The island of Ireland is made up of Ireland* and Northern Ireland!

*Ireland may be defined as the republic of ireland to distinguish from northern Ireland

Fair enough.

Since you object to me selecting snippets of your post I'll let you guess what part I'm talking about.

briany · 24-05-2012 02:44AM

true wrote: »

They are and many - I would say about a third - of Catholics in N. Ireland wish to stay in the UK.

Even here in the republic there are more than a few who realise we are not capable of governing ourselves. Even Gay Byrne, arguably Irelands most famous media person, suggested we hand the country back to the Queen with a note of apology!

I think Gaybo had his tongue planted in cheek on that one. Besides, I don't think the UK would particularly want us at this stage.

To keep this on topic (hopefully) yes, Northern Irish supporters have made leaps and bounds in their progress toward a more united footballing community but there remains a couple of realities that will so for the foreseeable future that threaten to disrupt the process and I'm not sure if they'll be overcome any time soon.

1. Bigotry makes good for a good story. Tabloid newspapers would rather trot out a headline about death threats than the good work done by the IFA and it's supporters in making the N.I. football system more inclusive. This means that the bigots' voice becomes greatly amplified. To change this the bigots would need to be silenced completely or a change be brought about in the culture of news reporting.

2. Players switching associations. This has been causing controversy within the Northern Irish support community, threatening polarisation and understandably so but let's face it, the reason that these players are switching is primarily because as it stands the Republic of Ireland team offers them a greater chance of success in the international arena so it is puzzling when I hear RoI supporters saying the switch is because "He's Irish. End of." as it is when I hear N.I. supporters saying "He should be playing for his country." both arguments are weak and show a willful ignorance of the fact that these are also professional sportsmen who want to play in big tournaments and yes, there is some feeling of affiliation in there but in no way is it the overriding factor.

fasttalkerchat · 24-05-2012 02:49AM

briany wrote: »

2. Players switching associations. This has been causing controversy within the Northern Irish support community, threatening polarisation and understandably so but let's face it, the reason that these players are switching is primarily because as it stands the Republic of Ireland team offers them a greater chance of success in the international arena so it is puzzling when I hear RoI supporters saying the switch is because "He's Irish. End of." as it is when I hear N.I. supporters saying "He should be playing for his country." both arguments are weak and show a willful ignorance of the fact that these are also professional sportsmen who want to play in big tournaments and yes, there is some feeling of affiliation in there but in no way is it the overriding factor.

I would agree with you there. Nearly all young footballers that I know who play to a decent level are involved with NI, only one is with the republic. Most of them support Ireland but it was NI who offered the chance to play at that level.

Nodin · 24-05-2012 07:48AM

true wrote: »

They are and many - I would say about a third - of Catholics in N. Ireland wish to stay in the UK.

Even here in the republic there are more than a few who realise we are not capable of governing ourselves. Even Gay Byrne, arguably Irelands most famous media person, suggested we hand the country back to the Queen with a note of apology!

The Sage Gay Byrne? O well it must be the right thing then so.

cournioni · 24-05-2012 08:34AM

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I would agree with you there. Nearly all young footballers that I know who play to a decent level are involved with NI, only one is with the republic. Most of them support Ireland but it was NI who offered the chance to play at that level.

Sure, and then they play in front of a larger crowd, get taunted and abused, and eventually say f*ck this, I'm going to play for the Republic of Ireland, because they identify themselves as Irish.

sanbrafyffe · 24-05-2012 08:39AM

very sad and sick people

fasttalkerchat · 24-05-2012 08:55AM

cournioni wrote: »

Sure, and then they play in front of a larger crowd, get taunted and abused, and eventually say f*ck this, I'm going to play for the Republic of Ireland, because they identify themselves as Irish.

Unfortunately this does often happen but the point stands that they were happy to play for either side because it was mostly a footballing decision.

gurramok · 24-05-2012 09:10AM

true wrote:

They are and many - I would say about a third - of Catholics in N. Ireland wish to stay in the UK.

Keep dreaming.

aquascrotum wrote: »

The problem is they are discounting supporting NI on the basis of a 20-year old stereotype (cold house for nationalists / sectarian atmosphere etc) that has moved on and simply does not exist on matchdays any more with very few exceptions. Even Lennon-gate was 10 years ago.

Aviva-gate was last year! NI supporters came down here with their Union Flags in abundance and singing GSTQ. That is not what Nationalists support.

Perhaps to be inclusive is to drop these symbols and anthems to attract broader support?

Deedsie · 24-05-2012 09:21AM

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Unfortunately this does often happen but the point stands that they were happy to play for either side because it was mostly a footballing decision.

Yes, but the obvious counter argument is that the FAI don't have a schoolboys set up in Northern Ireland. If they did the kids would have the option to choose. Underage representation is a tool to improve their ability and as a shop window for club scouts looking for new talent!

I don't think a kid should be hamstrung into being stuck playing for a team they don't associate with because they used the only underage set up available to them to further their professional soccer player ambitions. I know it should be and is an honour to represent a country, but at underage level nationalist or unionist kids have only one option.

In saying that, I don't think it's fair that a player who represents Northern Ireland in a friendly at senior should be allowed transfer to the FAI team.

Equality would be an FAI and IFA school boy set up in Northern Ireland. Let the players decide who they want to represent. You could then have an FAI player defecting the other way.

swimming in a sea · 24-05-2012 09:51AM

NiallFH wrote: »

I find it odd that this surprises you. Being from the North myself its a very common thing. I know it will sound biased coming from a Nationalist but Unionists/Loyalists for the most part tend to be a nasty bunch.

Goodness that's sounds like a nasty comment, I've worked in Belfast in one job and all around NI in another job and I can honestly say that Unionist people were who I got on best with, helpful and hard workers. The majority of nationalists when they new I was from ROI would think it meant I liked hearing anti protestant jokes and their GAA stories.

The above quote seems to have no relevance when it comes to famous people either, take George Best, Darren Clarke, Graeme Mcdowell, Joey Dunlop and Eddie Irvine who always tried to represent all the people of NI.

fasttalkerchat · 24-05-2012 10:02AM

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Goodness that's sounds like a nasty comment, I've worked in Belfast in one job and all around NI in another job and I can honestly say that Unionist people were who I got on best with, helpful and hard workers. The majority of nationalists when they new I was from ROI would think it meant I liked hearing anti protestant jokes and their GAA stories.

The above quote seems to have no relevance when it comes to famous people either, take George Best, Darren Clarke, Graeme Mcdowell, Joey Dunlop and Eddie Irvine who always tried to represent all the people of NI.

Eddie Irvine used the tricolour until his family got death threats from Loyalists. Rory McIlroy snubbed the tricolour and the red hand flag.

briany · 24-05-2012 11:51AM

cournioni wrote: »

Sure, and then they play in front of a larger crowd, get taunted and abused, and eventually say f*ck this, I'm going to play for the Republic of Ireland, because they identify themselves as Irish.

James McClean spoke about this type of experience in playing in the underage NI setup. I would have to question the reality of rife sectarianism at under 21 NI games, though, not least because they can't exactly attract a whole lot of people to begin with and the majority of Northern Ireland fans would be decent people who want to improve their reputation. Therefore I'd say they'd be quick enough to shout down the idiots who'd have the neck and be thick enough to hurl sectarian abuse at a catholic/nationalist player. Nobody really enjoys getting abuse especially over their background but a player who experiences this has to use their head and look to see if it's coming from a mere smattering of idiots living in the stone age or a large vocal group of people.

You only have to look at the NI team to see that there are indeed catholic players present. Take a player like Niall McGinn, he's catholic, he's an RoI fan* and yet he's opted to play for NI. Why would he do so? If he was getting the same kind of abuse as James McClean was claiming to be getting, why not just opt out altogether? Maybe he didn't want to play for RoI or they weren't showing an interest but if it's a choice between not playing for RoI or playing for a team where you allegedly run the risk of getting sectarian abuse and insults then I would say feck the whole lot and just concentrate on the club level game.

*Skip to 1:10*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn8bkvgVTCE

awec · 24-05-2012 11:59AM

McClean strikes me as more of an idiot than someone with a chip on his shoulder. Comes across as the sort of person who's never met a Protestant in his life which has clearly given him a rather skewed view on life.

He's young and naive. Would be interesting to hear what his current club manager thinks of his inane ramblings.

LordSutch · 24-05-2012 01:36PM

awec wrote: »

McClean strikes me as more of an idiot than someone with a chip on his shoulder. Comes across as the sort of person who's never met a Protestant in his life which has clearly given him a rather skewed view on life.

Ironic, with a surname like McClean, most of whom I guess are Protestant ???

IrishAm · 24-05-2012 01:39PM

awec wrote: »

McClean strikes me as more of an idiot than someone with a chip on his shoulder. Comes across as the sort of person who's never met a Protestant in his life which has clearly given him a rather skewed view on life.

He's young and naive. Would be interesting to hear what his current club manager thinks of his inane ramblings.

Or, he could be from Derry and has experienced the joys of being a nationalist in a orange statelet.......

Deedsie · 24-05-2012 01:49PM

I can't figure out why they don't like us... We are a great bunch of lads!

true · 24-05-2012 06:28PM

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Goodness that's sounds like a nasty comment, I've worked in Belfast in one job and all around NI in another job and I can honestly say that Unionist people were who I got on best with, helpful and hard workers. The majority of nationalists when they new I was from ROI would think it meant I liked hearing anti protestant jokes and their GAA stories.

+1. As a southerner I always found, over many years , the northern security forces nice people too. I have found northern nationalists / PIRA sympathisers very sectarian in their thinking too.

Fenian Army · 24-05-2012 07:14PM

awec wrote: »

McClean strikes me as more of an idiot than someone with a chip on his shoulder. Comes across as the sort of person who's never met a Protestant in his life which has clearly given him a rather skewed view on life.

He's young and naive. Would be interesting to hear what his current club manager thinks of his inane ramblings.

You do realize he is from Derry?

Sound of Silence · 24-05-2012 07:28PM

true wrote: »

+1. As a southerner I always found, over many years , the northern security forces nice people too. I have found northern nationalists / PIRA sympathisers very sectarian in their thinking too.

I'm assuming this wasn't just biased conjecture?

What surprises me is your apparent eagerness to stress Nationalist sectarianism based on what pretty much amounts to some surface level experiences you had in Northern Ireland. You're also clearly reluctant to accept that the UDR had a penchant for Loyalist collusion - This, despite a wealth of links and evidence provided by other posters.

Even among hard-line Loyalists, there is a kind of loosely held belief that Nationalists are less overtly sectarian. I've even witnessed this on bastions of tolerance such as the Rangers Forum, where they like to call it boxing clever.

Whether or not Nationalists are less sectarian is almost impossible to know for certain, but I wouldn't be so quick to paint either community as being more bigoted than the other. If you're going to make claims about either community, at least have the decency to post some supporting evidence.

As for me, I've never really heard any sectarian slurs in the Nationalist community. I've lived there my entire life, and it's never a topic of conversation.

forfuxsake · 24-05-2012 07:37PM

true wrote: »

+1. As a southerner I always found, over many years , the northern security forces nice people too. I have found northern nationalists / PIRA sympathisers very sectarian in their thinking too.

The Miami Showband found them very nice too, until they started shooting. In reality most of them today are as nice as any other Police Force, in the past they were not. This is why the UDR and the RUC were disbanded.

A small percentage of northern nationalists would consider themselves PIRA sympathisers. For verification of this check out Sinn Fein's election results before it was disbanded and after.

Ms.M · 24-05-2012 07:45PM

true wrote: »

+1. As a southerner I always found, over many years , the northern security forces nice people too. I have found northern nationalists / PIRA sympathisers very sectarian in their thinking too.

Using a forward slash between northern nationalists and PIRA sympathisers is heavy-handed. Practise what you preach.

Eggy Baby! · 24-05-2012 07:46PM

go onto youtube and have a look through some of the comments left on videos related to the Troubles, or the paramilitaries. You will get an idea of what kind of attitudes are still alive and well today

Yeah I know right? Like this video for example, such a violent and hateful IRA video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJDeipvpjGQ

(Cookie for getting the reference)

Ms.M · 24-05-2012 07:57PM

Eggy Baby, you obviously haven't seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARv3fAe_UaM

Frightening in a similar vein. But worse. Much, much worse.

woodoo · 24-05-2012 09:46PM

true wrote: »

Its ironic that some of those wearing the RoI top - whither it be in Belfast or in Glasgow - get their money from the UK government, then support the team and fly the flag of a different country.

Thats because the UK government administers Belfast and Glasgow. Whats their choice? move?

Eggy Baby! · 24-05-2012 09:47PM

Ms.M wrote: »

Eggy Baby, you obviously haven't seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARv3fAe_UaM

Frightening in a similar vein. But worse. Much, much worse.

Did he shout "Ireland" at the end?

briany · 24-05-2012 10:18PM

Originally Posted by true
Its ironic that some of those wearing the RoI top - whither it be in Belfast or in Glasgow - get their money from the UK government, then support the team and fly the flag of a different country.

If the worst those people did was go around wearing an RoI jersey or fly the flag, I think the law abiding citizens of Belfast or Glasgow would be pretty happy with that overall and if all the fellow dole-ites wearing Celtic, Rangers and NI tops to joined in on the peaceful behavior, we might be one step closer to a utopia.

Protestant behind enemy lines · 24-05-2012 10:31PM

awec wrote: »

McClean strikes me as more of an idiot than someone with a chip on his shoulder. Comes across as the sort of person who's never met a Protestant in his life which has clearly given him a rather skewed view on life.

He's young and naive. Would be interesting to hear what his current club manager thinks of his inane ramblings.

That seems to be the case. Shame as I think he a good player but if such disrespect towards the Northern Irish National team is down to a disdain for the British Protestants, then that is a shame.

laoch na mona · 24-05-2012 10:36PM

its fair to say some unionists are a bit not right

IrishAm · 24-05-2012 10:39PM

Protestant behind enemy lines wrote: »

That seems to be the case. Shame as I think he a good player but if such disrespect towards the Northern Irish National team is down to a disdain for the British Protestants, then that is a shame.

Strange username there, friend. Protestants are very welcome in this part of the country. In fact, the vast majority of people couldn't give a bollix if you were Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Muslim or dissenter.

I can't believe there are still Northern Irish people like this.

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