Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

18485878990150

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    So you happy that nothing new or untoward was reported in the documentary?

    I just don't think this warranted an hour long documentary.

    The club is still in big trouble but I doubt this will have any positive or negative impact.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    If HMRC haven't petitioned to remove D&P by now I don't think they will any time soon.

    As I said, the stuff about David Grier was out in the open already, if HMRC have thought D&P were at it they would have stepped in a long time ago.

    Imo.

    TBH, why would they bother at this stage?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    I just don't think this warranted an hour long documentary.

    The club is still in big trouble but I doubt this will have any positive or negative impact.

    That's lovely, now please answer the questions I put to you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Courtesy of 'Celtic Research' of the Twitter.

    Today's documents show that Billy Dodds earned £190,000 by way of EBTs.

    On 2nd March this year he seems to deny it.

    http://soundcloud.com/celticresearch/ebt-dodds/s-ItEEn


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Billy Dodds is too thick to know if he got an EBT or not. His agent probably bought himself a yacht with Billy's EBT!


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    I already did, but here you go.

    What would happen if HMRC choose to get rid of D&P ?

    Not a clue, but that's speculation as there are no signs of it happening.
    Most likely new admins will be appointed and it starts all over, severely impacting the future of club since money is running out fast.

    But again, speculation.

    Same with how possible investors would react, how the **** should I know that ? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Dempsey wrote: »
    Billy Dodds is too thick to know if he got an EBT or not. His agent probably bought himself a yacht with Billy's EBT!

    He says he was only paid his wages. There you go, there's the proof then that EBTs were considered contractual payments by someone who was actually paid them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,164 ✭✭✭Savage Tyrant


    What are EBT's exactly and why are they constantly referred to as "loans" if they don't need to be paid back?

    Barry Ferguson 2.5 million?
    Alex McLeish 1.7 million?

    Tidy loans if you can get them without paying back.

    And Souness getting a 30,000 "sub" 10 years after leaving the club, while employed at another?

    Nah, nothing dodgy going on there at all!! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    He says he was only paid his wages. There you go, there's the proof then that EBTs were considered contractual payments by someone who was actually paid them.

    :confused:

    He said he had no clue and he just got his wages.
    That doesn't mean he was aware of any EBT scheme.

    I agree with Dempsey, Dodds is a bit thick, I'm sure he just got money weekly/monthly and never questioned it.

    Notice also how his is one of the names where the BBC claim to have no side letter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    He says he was only paid his wages. There you go, there's the proof then that EBTs were considered contractual payments by someone who was actually paid them.

    Seriously though, there could have been agents ripping off players when they got wind of this sort of deal, it wouldnt surprise me. Like their directors, the players would have done **** all except probably change agent.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,164 ✭✭✭Savage Tyrant


    Brilliant!!

    f71145fc.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Jelle1880 wrote: »

    I agree with Dempsey, Dodds is a bit thick, I'm sure he just got money weekly/monthly and never questioned it.

    ...and if that's the case then you've lost your appeal in the Big Tax Case!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Dempsey wrote: »
    Seriously though, there could have been agents ripping off players when they got wind of this sort of deal, it wouldnt surprise me. Like their directors, the players would have done **** all except probably change agent.

    Monies went to players, not agents.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    ...and if that's the case then you've lost your appeal in the Big Tax Case!!!

    Or it means Dodds was never paid through any EBT scheme.
    But your guess (because that's what it is, right ?) is as good as mine.

    And before you use that BBC page as evidence: I'd love to see those side letters first.
    And in the case of Dodds I'd love to see the evidence they have to come up to £190.000.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Monies went to players, not agents.

    You think an agent couldnt provide different bank details on the paperwork for a money transfer that isnt suppose to exist and cover his tracks? When you have people like 'Arry Redknapp in football who cant fill out a teamsheet but have a bank account in Monaco in the name of his dead dog then anything like is possible. I'm not saying it happened but I wouldnt rule out the possibility of a player being scammed by their agent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    What do you make of this Jelle? You honestly saying you knew about all this already?

    http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/

    There is so much material to wade through as a result of the excellent BBC documentary, Rangers – The men who sold the jerseys.  Much of it is of only passing interest to us, although we will examine it in more detail in the days to come, one part, however, concerns Celtic and Celtic fans more any anyone else in Scotland.

    BBC have evidence that the following players had side letters contracting payment to Employee Benefit Trusts:

    Alex Rae, Arthur Numan, Barry Ferguson, Carlos Cuellar, Christian Nerlinger, Craig More, Dado Prso, Dan Eggen, Egil Ostenstad, Fernando Ricksen, Gavin Rae, Gregory Vignal, Jean-Alain Boumsong, Jerome Bonnissel, Julien Rodriguez, Kris Boyd, Lorenzo Amoruso, Kevin Muscat, Libor Sionko, Marvin Andrews, Michael Ball, Mikel Arteta, Michael Mols, Nacho Novo, Paolo Vanoli, Pedro Mendes, Neil McCann, Olivier Bernard, Peter Lovenkrands, Ronald De Boer, Sasa Papac, Ronald Waterreus, Sotirios Kyrgiakos, Stefan Klos, Steven Davis, Steven Thompson, Thomas Buffel and Zurab Khizanishvilli

    Scottish FA registration procedures are clear:

    Rule 2.2.1

    Unless lodged in accordance with Procedures Rule 2.13 a Non-Recreational [professional] Contract Player Registration Form will not be valid unless it is accompanied by the contract entered into between the club concerned and the player stating all the terms and conditions in conformity with the Procedures Rule 4.

    “Will not be valid” being the key point.

    The SFA’s Articles of Association also say:

    Furthermore, all payments, whether made by the club or otherwise, which are to be made to a player solely relating to his playing activities must be fully recorded within the relevant written agreement with the player prior to submission to this Association and/or the recognised football body of which his club is in membership.

    Article 98 states:

    A club making payment of any kind to a player, either amateur or professional, must obtain from the player a written receipt for the same showing details of the payment, and any club under the jurisdiction of the Association must produce such receipts to the Association when called upon to do so. For a player registered by means of a Full Professional Form, a club must produce on request receipts for the wages paid to him in terms of his agreement lodged with the Association.

    Documentary evidence exists that Rangers played 38 players with invalid registrations between 2000 and 2010 (the last year financial information is available for Rangers) .  Results from all games involving these players, which is all games Rangers have played since 2000, are void.

    I am sure the BBC will forward all evidence to the SFA and SPL for investigation.

    You were cheated out of five league championships.  Fortunately, evidence exists and the history books will be rewritten.

    The SFA and SPL must immediately take action.  A statement must be made this morning reflecting the gravity of the situation and reassuring fans that our game’s administrators are able to deal with this matter.

    12-in-a-row!  Who would have thought it!

    Just a quick comment on Juninho. Juninho had an EBT for a short period while he was at Celtic. He had no side letters or contracts from Celtic and tax was paid on money paid into the EBT. ‘Nothing to see here’.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Yes, everybody was aware that certain players supposedly were partly paid by EBT's and had side letters about that, the BBC already mentioned that before they broadcasted this.

    Don't pretend you don't take a look at RTC now and again ;)

    I'm still waiting for those side letters to be shown to the SFA though, and to the public if possible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    Yes, everybody was aware that certain players supposedly were partly paid by EBT's and had side letters about that, the BBC already mentioned that before they broadcasted this.

    Don't pretend you don't take a look at RTC now and again ;)

    I'm still waiting for those side letters to be shown to the SFA though, and to the public if possible.

    24 hours ago I thought such letters existed and that there was dual contracts.

    Now the BBC have said they have proof that these exist and they have made astounding accusations to back it up. I believe that the BBC are right... and if they're not then I look forward to the court cases.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18185328

    Former Rangers director Paul Murray has called for a probe of Duff & Phelps' handling of the football club's period in administration.
    "Some serious allegations in this programme seem to be backed up by documentary evidence,"

    "And I really feel that there has to be an investigation as a matter of urgency by the regulatory bodies."

    "For Rangers fans to have confidence in the process over the last three months, this has to be investigated as a matter of urgency,"

    "The problem from the club's point of view is that we don't have much time."

    "In their wisdom, they have given Charles Green's consortium preferred bidder status and I do not want to do anything to adversely effect the club," said Murray.

    "I was involved as a director and been involved in trying to buy the club with others, but first and foremost I am a fan and want to see the club in safe hands.

    "Duff and Phelps have been quite clear that the club will run out of money at the end of the month.

    "But tonight's programme, if substantiated, suggests a lot of question marks over that process over the past three months.

    "That process has taken a long time and a lot of people have questioned why it has taken a long time."

    "I am a qualified chartered accountant and some elements of the process have bemused me," he said.

    "Why were Duff and Phelps appointed in the first place? I wonder why one of the four largest accountancy firms were not appointed.

    "Why was Craig Whyte so keen to get Duff and Phelps appointed?

    "And Duff and Phelps have to answer questions over David Grier's involvement in this."

    I just pulled what Murray said and some of the questions he's only asking now in public were being asked the morning Whyte pre-empted HMRC on filing for administration.

    The question now is, what actually puts the final nail in Rangers coffin because if D&P have breached regulations and are put through the wringer by the Insolvency Practitioners Association then they would probably have to go through the preferred bidder process again :confused:

    AtnJgcWCQAAvVCU.jpg

    :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Dempsey wrote: »

    The question now is, what actually puts the final nail in Rangers coffin because if D&P have breached regulations and are put through the wringer by the Insolvency Practitioners Association then they would probably have to go through the preferred bidder process again :confused:

    Precisely the point I put to Jelle earlier.

    Paul Murray was a director whilst these EBTs were being paid, he's got some cheek making these statements about Duff and Phelps considering his role in all this guff.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭Old Gill


    Excellent.. plenty to bury them with there


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭lubo_moravcik


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    Why would Souness receive a payment of 30 grand 10 years after leaving Rangers??

    Something to do with Tugay apparently :pac:

    Or at least that's what they implied.
    You can pull the wee funny face all day long man, am just wondering what genuine logical reason would there be for making that payment of 30k to someone who left the club 10 yr previously. Don't you think there's something a wee bit odd about it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    You can pull the wee funny face all day long man, am just wondering what genuine logical reason would there be for making that payment of 30k to someone who left the club 10 yr previously. Don't you think there's something a wee bit odd about it?

    I'm saying that that's what they were alluding to, that it had to do with Tugay going to Blackburn.

    Which I think makes no sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Rangers Tax Case gets slated here by the Rangers fans. Interestingly last night he won the 'Orwell Prize' which is 'regarded as the pre-eminent British prize for political writing' for his blogging on what's happening Rangers FC. This man should be thanked by Rangers fans, not slaughtered.

    Not bad for an Internet bampot eh?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwell_Prize

    www.rangerstaxcase.com


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,307 ✭✭✭cruiserweight


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    I'm saying that that's what they were alluding to, that it had to do with Tugay going to Blackburn.

    Which I think makes no sense.

    In the documentary it was said that HMRC suspected it might be an illegal payment to do with the Tugay transfer, but that HMRC found no further evidence to support that suspicion


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    In the documentary it was said that HMRC suspected it might be an illegal payment to do with the Tugay transfer, but that HMRC found no further evidence to support that suspicion

    Doesnt mean it didnt happen.

    Martin Bain shredded the evidence to his EBT 'side letter', no doubt that others have done this where possible

    EDIT

    No surprise to see that Aberdeen fans have threatened to boycott their own season tickets if Aberdeen backs a Rangers newco. Its fair bad that fans have to resort to this in order to force their clubs to do the right thing! Kilmarnock still seem ready to sell their soul for Rangers away days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭lubo_moravcik


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    I'm saying that that's what they were alluding to, that it had to do with Tugay going to Blackburn.

    Which I think makes no sense.

    Does a payment of such an amount make any sense at that time do you think??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Does a payment of such an amount make any sense at that time do you think??

    Not really, but that also doesn't mean it was used for the Tugay transfer or whatever they claimed.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,164 ✭✭✭Savage Tyrant


    Dempsey wrote: »
    Doesnt mean it didnt happen.

    Martin Bain shredded the evidence to his EBT 'side letter', no doubt that others have done this where possible

    EDIT

    No surprise to see that Aberdeen fans have threatened to boycott their own season tickets if Aberdeen backs a Rangers newco. Its fair bad that fans have to resort to this in order to force their clubs to do the right thing! Kilmarnock still seem ready to sell their soul for Rangers away days.

    Well they should be without 2 of their major gate receipt days no matter what because Celtic fans should boycott them if they vote for no sanctions.


Advertisement