I can haz general discussion? 2!!

Eric Cartman · 17-05-2012 05:21PM

irish_goat wrote: »

RE: The USI vote.

Any bets on how many people are going to be stupid enough to suggest we can afford 100% exchequer funded 3rd level?

quite a lot of people live in fantasy land unfortunatly. Its just what this country needs, college becoming 100% free so more people go do degrees 'for the craic'

wolfyboy555 · 17-05-2012 07:08PM

Is the SU bar still open in the evenings? I'm not finished till tuesday and the class was thinking of heading there!

How so Joe · 17-05-2012 10:23PM

yep, 'tis. My class went there to celebrate the end of our masters after we finished today. I left at about nine, and they were still in full flow.

rcaz · 17-05-2012 10:47PM

This is how I feel after today's study.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz3fWAtOMV4

DB21 · 17-05-2012 11:08PM

Suddenly, I'm old :pac:

Thwip! · 17-05-2012 11:12PM

Happy birthday again DB...OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

OneOfTheseDays · 18-05-2012 02:04AM

irish_goat wrote: »

RE: The USI vote.

Any bets on how many people are going to be stupid enough to suggest we can afford 100% exchequer funded 3rd level?

Currently our economy cannot support 100% exchequer funded 3rd level. That's due to a multitude of reasons that don't need to be elaborated upon here.

However since USI began over 50 years ago it has strived (or claimed to at least) to encourage equality of access to 3rd level education. It is not the job of USI to present government policy to students. Instead it is to protect, defend and improve the conditions of its (claimed) 250 000 members.

I voted for 100% exchequer funded in the *"preferendum", and without seeming over confident or cocky I wouldn't consider myself "stupid".

Why?
Well I'm a romanticist and ideologue and really, really don't like the world that we live in.

But I suppose if I continue down that avenue I'll be accused of being a loony who doesn't know his structural deficit (arse) from his GDP (elbow).

A Union is a collective to defend and protect its members. You aim for the ideal and you'll possibly have to compromise. So if we approach the negotiating table with a point of view that is at variance with the government of the day we can at least achieve concessions and position ourselves in the most advantageous position for studnets. Following on from years of campaigning if USI just throw in the towel now they can kiss goodbye to ever being a relevant lobbying body in this country again.

*Such a BS idea. It's obviously being pushed from the top of USI/SUs across the country. It should have taken the form of a simple Yes/No REFERENDUM in every MO.

"Do you agree with USI's current stance on 3rd level funding? *state policy*"

Yes or No

Then if there is a no vote you have reason to change policy/rant over (for now).

Michellenman · 18-05-2012 08:04AM

Last ever NUIM exam probably today. Last of the undergrad anyway(assuming I don't have to repeat). It's been real, NUIM. I'll miss ya.

You may now perma-ban me from this forum.

I'm just kidding - I love this place.

CaoimH_in · 18-05-2012 10:37AM

I'm pretty sure cuts can be found elsewhere (maybe a rule of only being allowed one wage from the public purse would help us find some funds, not to mention be more equitable). There is an argument that we shouldn't be the ones to foot the bill when we are the future of this exports led economy.

We already have a hugely expensive education system in relation to other EU countries. (This very day I could move to Finland, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Germany, and I think Belgium too, to get a free, quality education). We have English prices, but not English institutions. The only fallout from making us pay fees is that less people will attend Irish universities. Have a look at post-grad places!

There is still a huge blooming argument to be made for exchequer funded fees. Agreed, the money has to come from somewhere, but it doesn't mean we have that burden. Not when there are so many people with their hand in the pot for no good reason--especially at local government level. Nonsense that my parents have to pay hand over fist for my education.

"Its just what this country needs, college becoming 100% free so more people go do degrees 'for the craic' "

There is so much wrong with this I really can't even begin. Stupidity.

wonton · 18-05-2012 01:14PM

CaoimH_in wrote: »

I'm pretty sure cuts can be found elsewhere (maybe a rule of only being allowed one wage from the public purse would help us find some funds, not to mention be more equitable). There is an argument that we shouldn't be the ones to foot the bill when we are the future of this exports led economy.

We already have a hugely expensive education system in relation to other EU countries. (This very day I could move to Finland, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Germany, and I think Belgium too, to get a free, quality education). We have English prices, but not English institutions. The only fallout from making us pay fees is that less people will attend Irish universities. Have a look at post-grad places!

There is still a huge blooming argument to be made for exchequer funded fees. Agreed, the money has to come from somewhere, but it doesn't mean we have that burden. Not when there are so many people with their hand in the pot for no good reason--especially at local government level. Nonsense that my parents have to pay hand over fist for my education.

"Its just what this country needs, college becoming 100% free so more people go do degrees 'for the craic' "

There is so much wrong with this I really can't even begin. Stupidity.

Them countries are making huge changes too though, sweden for example had open free education for basically anyone from anywhere up till two years ago , now its only for eu citizens and I read they are trying to make only for swedes.

obviously thats sounds like much a smaller deal , but in relative terms they are making as much cuts, and had then been hit like us you could imagine they would have put on fees.

Oscars Well. · 18-05-2012 02:24PM

DB21 wrote: »

Suddenly, I'm old :pac:

Happy Birthday Darren!

Eric Cartman · 18-05-2012 06:22PM

CaoimH_in wrote: »

I'm pretty sure cuts can be found elsewhere (maybe a rule of only being allowed one wage from the public purse would help us find some funds, not to mention be more equitable). There is an argument that we shouldn't be the ones to foot the bill when we are the future of this exports led economy.

We already have a hugely expensive education system in relation to other EU countries. (This very day I could move to Finland, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Germany, and I think Belgium too, to get a free, quality education). We have English prices, but not English institutions. The only fallout from making us pay fees is that less people will attend Irish universities. Have a look at post-grad places!

There is still a huge blooming argument to be made for exchequer funded fees. Agreed, the money has to come from somewhere, but it doesn't mean we have that burden. Not when there are so many people with their hand in the pot for no good reason--especially at local government level. Nonsense that my parents have to pay hand over fist for my education.

"Its just what this country needs, college becoming 100% free so more people go do degrees 'for the craic' "

There is so much wrong with this I really can't even begin. Stupidity.

1) are you saying that nobody goes to college just to waste a year or figure out what they want to do with their lives by spending a year or even a whole degree studying something they dont care about. ?

2) So your answer is college can be free for all if we punish rich people and heads of councils etc... that my friend is the only stupid argument im seeing.

Personally Im supporting the graduate tax option. It makes the most sense , if your degree gets you a good job then you pay it back , if it doesnt well then you dont.

The student loan scheme would also be acceptable for some degrees. There are some arts subjects (I said some, not a majority, not all) that give an absolutely worthless degree that I know people have done 'for the craic' and I would support a student loan scheme for such degrees to make sure my tax money isnt wasted and that only students who are serious about studying it would actually apply

Seren_ · 18-05-2012 09:30PM

It would appear that the SU now has a somewhat functioning website.

Eric Cartman · 18-05-2012 09:34PM

Your Text Here wrote: »

It would appear that the SU now has a somewhat functioning website.

its probably just a wordpress site but its still quite good, didnt know there was a maynooth iphone app until now either

How so Joe · 18-05-2012 09:45PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its probably just a wordpress site but its still quite good, didnt know there was a maynooth iphone app until now either

Yep, it's wordpress! It's an interim site until the main one goes up. But it actually works, which is more than we've been able to say for years!

CaoimH_in · 18-05-2012 10:46PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

1) are you saying that nobody goes to college just to waste a year or figure out what they want to do with their lives by spending a year or even a whole degree studying something they dont care about. ?

2) So your answer is college can be free for all if we punish rich people and heads of councils etc... that my friend is the only stupid argument im seeing.

Listen Cartman, I'm saying that if someone wastes a year in college they have to pay to repeat, then they have to pay for every following year. That's fair enough; everyone would agree that's fair.

If someone studied something for 3-4 years and does nothing to do with their degree, they usually end up working in a different field off the back of their good degree. If someone re-trains and does another degree, they have to pay for it. That is fair too.

I'm saying that without a "free" education I wouldn't be, nor would many of my closest friends, in college. All the many, many eejits messing, taking advantage of the state's good will and failing their classes, adding nothing to college life, or just being plain gowls, will result in them having to pay to either repeat and have full fees or they will complete their poor/OK degrees. Having a poor/OK degree will of course mean poorer jobs, less pay, and proves that you can't run around wild without getting smacked somewhere.

I love "free" university education. It's pluses far outweigh its minuses. Kids from lower/middle/higher working class families can go to college without having an unnatural burden on them. Adults who didn't even get the chance to finish secondary school, not even free until the late 70s, I think, (unless you were in a tech) can get to attend college for free. This can have a myriad of meanings for these people, to signify intellect, for pride, for money, for just the experience of university.

In any sensible democracy you must have a understanding with history, coupled with material conditions at present, and with view to presenting the best future possible. It's absolute nonsense that one does not figure free education essential in any past, present, or future when it can be had.

That's all I'm saying man.

Fbjm · 18-05-2012 10:56PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its probably just a wordpress site but its still quite good, didnt know there was a maynooth iphone app until now either

A German PhD student made it a couple months back, legend of a man.

How so Joe · 18-05-2012 11:20PM

CaoimH_in wrote: »

Listen Cartman, I'm saying that if someone wastes a year in college they have to pay to repeat, then they have to pay for every following year. That's fair enough; everyone would agree that's fair.

That's totally unfair. Pay for your repeat year, sure, but if you choose the wrong course, realise, drop out within the first year and pick a course you'll actually enjoy and stick at, why should you have to pay the entirety of the tuition fees? Everyone is allowed a mistake or two along the way, by all means pay for your repeat year, but why should you have to pay for something you haven't done before (i.e. 2nd year+) just because it took you a year longer to figure out what you wanted to do?

DB21 · 19-05-2012 12:41AM

CaoimH_in wrote: »

Listen Cartman, I'm saying that if someone wastes a year in college they have to pay to repeat, then they have to pay for every following year. That's fair enough; everyone would agree that's fair.

Bull****. Failed the year last year due to stress related depression. Should I have had to pay for this year as well as the two subsequent years? (I didn't have to pay for my repeat year as I was deemed medically unfit to be in college last year).

CaoimH_in · 19-05-2012 01:36AM

How_so,

That's totally unfair. Pay for your repeat year, sure, but if you choose the wrong course, realise, drop out within the first year and pick a course you'll actually enjoy and stick at, why should you have to pay the entirety of the tuition fees? Everyone is allowed a mistake or two along the way, by all means pay for your repeat year, but why should you have to pay for something you haven't done before (i.e. 2nd year+) just because it took you a year longer to figure out what you wanted to do?

I agree such measures should be there, but how would they be policed? It'd be very hard to write social policy for that. That's why the system is the way it is. You are constantly advised to quit in the first year if you don't feel comfortable.

I assume too that the line of thought is that you would try finish your degree and use it to find work, save up, and retrain. Or to get a student loan, retrain, and pay back your loan. The latter really isn't a pretty option, neither is the former tbh, but it's as a result of not really being able to police those who didn't find their course from those that didn't work, unfortunately.

DB,

Bull****. Failed the year last year due to stress related depression. Should I have had to pay for this year as well as the two subsequent years? (I didn't have to pay for my repeat year as I was deemed medically unfit to be in college last year).

Don't be rude.

But anyway, yeah, I have had a similar sort. I won't try and relate of course, I don't know you.

Of course not, you were ill, far easier to police who was medically unfit for college. I'm extremely glad you didn't have to pay! Thankfully those provisions are there, I hadn't thought of them when forming my reply.

Eric Cartman · 19-05-2012 12:36PM

CaoimH_in wrote: »

Listen Cartman, I'm saying that if someone wastes a year in college they have to pay to repeat, then they have to pay for every following year. That's fair enough; everyone would agree that's fair.

If someone studied something for 3-4 years and does nothing to do with their degree, they usually end up working in a different field off the back of their good degree. If someone re-trains and does another degree, they have to pay for it. That is fair too.

I'm saying that without a "free" education I wouldn't be, nor would many of my closest friends, in college. All the many, many eejits messing, taking advantage of the state's good will and failing their classes, adding nothing to college life, or just being plain gowls, will result in them having to pay to either repeat and have full fees or they will complete their poor/OK degrees. Having a poor/OK degree will of course mean poorer jobs, less pay, and proves that you can't run around wild without getting smacked somewhere.

I love "free" university education. It's pluses far outweigh its minuses. Kids from lower/middle/higher working class families can go to college without having an unnatural burden on them. Adults who didn't even get the chance to finish secondary school, not even free until the late 70s, I think, (unless you were in a tech) can get to attend college for free. This can have a myriad of meanings for these people, to signify intellect, for pride, for money, for just the experience of university.

In any sensible democracy you must have a understanding with history, coupled with material conditions at present, and with view to presenting the best future possible. It's absolute nonsense that one does not figure free education essential in any past, present, or future when it can be had.

That's all I'm saying man.

But a graduate tax enables this 'free' education to continue, infact it even lowers the upfront cost barriers that the current system has. You could even work out a scheme to include book costs in a grad tax. It doesnt segregate anybody because it offers the ability to not worry where money is coming from and not have to pay it back till your earning a high amount. It also means that people who choose not to attend college are not paying for those who do, The only way to get ireland back on track is to cut spending and cut taxes and 100% free education or keeping going the same way we are will not achieve that.

The reason Im in favour of it is 1) Ireland cannot afford 100% free fees at the moment, and it doesnt look like it will for a minimum of 5-10 years. 2) full fees and student loan schemes would end up keeping people out of further education. The graduate tax provides the lowest cost to the exchequer without keeping people in worse financial situations out of college.

wonton · 19-05-2012 03:01PM

CaoimH_in wrote: »

Of course not, you were ill, far easier to police who was medically unfit for college. I'm extremely glad you didn't have to pay! Thankfully those provisions are there, I hadn't thought of them when forming my reply.

so anyone who fails a year for personal reasons and picks themselves back up and wants to return to college has to then convince the college their reasons were sufficent enough to not have pay for subsequent year?

I almost cant believe that for so many reasons.

If the reasons werent strong enough you would people trying to make up reasons, and even worse if people had good enough reasons but didnt want to have to go through such an ordeal of having their personal life examined, you would have people just not being able to afford college.

and as far as free education goes, I think its obviously harsh putting in fees with such small notice and not exactly sure what I think is the best route, but lets be honest free uni doesnt even things out when the vast majority of the students coming in come from fairly good areasand in *general* the wealthest areas have the most people attending college.

not that I agree with the fees america has but Id actually question how different the demographics are in the average college between america and "free education" ireland, especially since getting into college is probably the harder thing for most people than paying for it. (assuming fees werent put in so quick)

XxMCRxBabyxX · 19-05-2012 03:06PM

DB21 wrote: »

Suddenly, I'm old :pac:

Hah snap! We has the same birthday!

Seren_ · 19-05-2012 05:55PM

The destruction of my favourite show by the cnuts that populate the NBC and Sony executives has not gone down well. Expecting a very dumbed down and "accessible" Community to return in September. Read Dan Harmon's tumblr for the full story. Darkest timeline is here

rcaz · 19-05-2012 06:04PM

Going to the shop for a coke and a packet of munchies is the best study break going.

If they sold munchies in packs of infinity there would be enough munchies.

Fbjm · 19-05-2012 06:06PM

Your Text Here wrote: »

The destruction of my favourite show by the cnuts that populate the NBC and Sony executives has not gone down well. Expecting a very dumbed down and "accessible" Community to return in September. Read Dan Harmon's tumblr for the full story. Darkest timeline is here

I'm currently on S1 Ep4! Got loads to go yet

Seren_ · 19-05-2012 06:36PM

Fbjm wrote: »

I'm currently on S1 Ep4! Got loads to go yet

Hope you enjoy it! It's an amazing show, up to the end of season 3 anyway

wait until you get to the paintball episode....

Thwip! · 19-05-2012 07:33PM

Your Text Here wrote: »

The destruction of my favourite show by the cnuts that populate the NBC and Sony executives has not gone down well. Expecting a very dumbed down and "accessible" Community to return in September. Read Dan Harmon's tumblr for the full story. Darkest timeline is here

i read it at 8 this morning when i was more than half asleep on the way to work.... cold water in the face if there ever was one....they cant make it without him...it needs Harmony

XxMCRxBabyxX · 21-05-2012 09:12PM

I gots campus! Thank fcuk!

How so Joe · 23-05-2012 12:39AM

I swear, some day soon I'll make it into college and actually start researching my thesis, rather than just hanging around the Union and drinking tea!

I can haz general discussion? 2!!

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