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Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)
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I don't get the Martinez love I have to say. If I recollect correctly, Wigan under him have consistently failed to produce any sort of results until the final stages of the season where they somehow manage to survive. Brilliant achievement at Wigan given the constraints he's working within but I don't see how this can be applied in assessing his chances of success at Liverpool?
Appointing him as manager would be as big a risk as it would have been keeping Kenny, just for different reasons. If Martinez/Rodgers/Lambert are the kind of managers we're looking at I don't see what the harm would have been keeping Kenny until January at least?
I'm fine with Kenny being let go as long as it was part of a speedy process in acquiring a good manager, but who's availability on the market demanded that we moved quickly. The likes of Martinez/Rodgers/Lambert on the other hand are always going to be available if a club like Liverpool comes knocking.
Of course, whoever is the manager will be given every chance. I gave Roy every chance, I only started to judge his performance after our defeat against Man U (3-2 afaik?). I'll give the next manager the same benefit.0 -
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Handsome Bob wrote: »I don't get the Martinez love I have to say. If I recollect correctly, Wigan under him have consistently failed to produce any sort of results until the final stages of the season where they somehow manage to survive. Brilliant achievement at Wigan given the constraints he's working within but I don't see how this can be applied in assessing his chances of success at Liverpool?
Appointing him as manager would be as big a risk as it would have been keeping Kenny, just for different reasons. If Martinez/Rodgers/Lambert are the kind of managers we're looking at I don't see what the harm would have been keeping Kenny until January at least?
I'm fine with Kenny being let go as long as it was part of a speedy process in acquiring a good manager, but who's availability on the market demanded that we moved quickly. The likes of Martinez/Rodgers/Lambert on the other hand are always going to be available if a club like Liverpool comes knocking.
Of course, whoever is the manager will be given every chance. I gave Roy every chance, I only started to judge his performance after our defeat against Man U (3-2 afaik?). I'll give the next manager the same benefit.
If Martinez was from Scunthorpe and not Spain then we wouldn't be even discussing his name .
Its because he is Spanish and plays an open form of football that it seems, and presumed, he is somehow inherently going to automatically deliver Tiki-taka football to LFC .
Fúcking crazy !
We as a club are at a serious cross roads and taking risks on non proven managers at big clubs is just madness, and a unnecessary risk.
IMO we should be banging down the door of Rafa Benitez instead of chasing pie-in-the-sky philosophies .0 -
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Rafa wont get the time either if he doesn't start well, people will be too quick to say "told ye so".
Yes but I don't think it would be half as bad as say three years ago. We have been through a hell of a lot in the past 24months.
Fans learn and mellow (fingers crossed
)
If Rafa got the job I would love if the club came out and said this is a minimum 5year plan and we all need to be patient etc .
If the club/owners are not willing to put such a long-term plan in place, and want instant success (ala Chelsea) then they can fúck right off and I dont want them anywhere near the club.
in other news ..Ian Ayre insists Liverpool's top stars are on board as the club looks to enter a fresh and exciting period with a new manager.
The club's managing director has spoken to key members of the squad following the departure of Kenny Dalglish - and has now dismissed any talk of high-profile exits.
"I spoke to all our senior players yesterday and I don't think that will happen," said Ayre.
"Of course Kenny is an important part of the fabric of the club and always will be.
"There isn't anyone who won't be disappointed with the decision but at the same time players are respectful.
"It's about the football club. We are talking about going forward, not going backwards."
Ayre hopes key positions will start to be filled over the next fortnight after the club parted company with Dalglish, director of football Damien Comolli and director of communications Ian Cotton.
"There are no plans to fire anyone else," Ayre confirmed. "It was just part of a process. It is all part of wanting to get it right. The natural break point is at the end of a season. That is the time when you take stock of what people have achieved or what they haven't achieved within a period.
"This view that there is a crisis and everyone is leaving is wrong, it's just a time based thing. When anyone leaves you have to go through the process of finding a replacement and moving forward.
"It's fair to say we are fairly imminent on a lot of positions that have exited. What you will see over the next two weeks is those new people arriving and a momentum of going forward.
"There will be new people arriving with new energy and new initiatives. For all the negativity that has existed in the last six to eight weeks, you will see a lot of positivity around the new appointments with their experience and what they will deliver."0 -
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His style, just by what it is, will always work with better players. I agree with a lot of your sentiment, and wouldn't employ him if I were pool unless Rafa, AVB, Lambert, Klopp, Guardiola and Deschamps all turned the job down.
But managers have bad times in some places but work very well in others. But fundamentally Martinez' philosophy is much better off with the likes of Suarez playing it compared to the likes of Shaun Maloney. The guy himself seems fairly tactically astute, I'd put some of the failing down to the players he has. Caldwell as his key CB compared to Agger, MacArthur instead of Lucas, Boyce instead of Johnson, Maloney instead of Suarez, even Di Santo instead of Carroll.
I understand your trepidation but still, juding him based on results with inferior players is unfair when you consider the results he has had. If he tried to play the ususal organised 4-5-1 and had such a poor record then he shouldn't be looked at whatsoever. Instead he's been trying an incredibly attacking, unusual for the EPL, 3-4-2-1 that only came in after the 8 straight defeats. They were playing a different system for those defeats.
That's part of the concern though, to be fair. Everything looked lost and, for my money, he just gambled all - in because at that point he might as well have been hung for a sheep as for a lamb. Two seasons in a row, he and his players have thrown caution to the wind when the pressure has been taken off, and it has worked. But at Liverpool he won't get the luxury of having the pressure removed to such an extent, of having the fans and players and everyone else remove the spotlight.
I do take your point on players though. But then again, players that I could see aiding a system transformation like Maxi and Kuyt (clever players who move well off the ball) are on their way out, and the likes of Downing, Carroll, Henderson and Enrique could really struggle.
I'm just seeing the glass half empty here in a lot of different ways.
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